POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

[ScoobyDoo]

Think it, don't say it. Not if you want to win and stop the madness. You're not trying to win them over, but if you're looking for those people in the middle, who mostly only vaguely pay attention to politics, they're going to see vitriolic language coming from both sides and call it a toss up. If they see the vitriol being met with measured words and true logic, you have to hope that they make the rights choice.

Sure. Like they did last time.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Ask yourself what it would look like if it was beginning here.

If the Nazis bother you, then think of Mussolini. Or Pinochet. Or Franco.

What would it look like, at the beginning?

I've been thinking about that a lot over the last few weeks.

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Ask yourself what it would look like if it was beginning here.

If the Nazis bother you, then think of Mussolini. Or Pinochet. Or Franco.

What would it look like, at the beginning?

I'm not going to claim to be a scholar on fascism, but it seems to me that what Trump does and says which triggers "fascism" thoughts for many people, things like themes of nationalistic pride, creating monsters out of minorities or foreigners, targeting the media for attack, he does for effect. I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think in typical fascist regimes we see legislative efforts to further enhance the wealth of the upper crust or corporations. Instead, I think those institutions are frequently targeted by the fascists.

[BassAle]

we see legislative efforts to further enhance the wealth of the upper crust or corporations.

Uhhhh....

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

I'm not going to claim to be a scholar on fascism, but it seems to me that what Trump does and says which triggers "fascism" thoughts for many people, things like themes of nationalistic pride, creating monsters out of minorities or foreigners, targeting the media for attack, he does for effect. I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think in typical fascist regimes we see legislative efforts to further enhance the wealth of the upper crust or corporations. Instead, I think those institutions are frequently targeted by the fascists.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/fas...nomic-programs

[St. Clown]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Sure. Like they did last time.

I don't think people understood who Trump was in 2016. He's a sideshow, and can't be as crazy and self-involved as he seems. Personally, I thought he would be tempered by the gravity of the position. I voted against the man, the first time I ever cast a D vote for POTUS, and even I was shocked by what he's shown himself to be.

Now people know, and I think you'll see a more motivated base. Someone like Kerry could win this election, but not someone who's been as demonized, and comes off as shrill, as Hillary.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

I'm not going to claim to be a scholar on fascism, but it seems to me that what Trump does and says which triggers "fascism" thoughts for many people, things like themes of nationalistic pride, creating monsters out of minorities or foreigners, targeting the media for attack, he does for effect. I don't know this for a fact, but I don't think in typical fascist regimes we see legislative efforts to further enhance the wealth of the upper crust or corporations. Instead, I think those institutions are frequently targeted by the fascists.

Fascism is the union of the upper economic strata and the reactionary masses. The whole idea of the fasces is that the sticks are bundled together so they cannot be broken -- the sticks are the dominant institutions of the society, the bundling is done by the seizure of total political power by the state. In fascism the richest business leaders all work together rather than compete -- competition is directed outwards via the military aggression of the state. So while fascist social policy is racist and xenophobic to appeal to the right wing masses, fascist economics is highly plutocratic to appeal to the right wing elites.

That is exactly what is going on right now: the 1% and the dregs of our society are joining up to attack western liberal values, destroy democracy, and also destroy any opposition to the unlimited accumulation of wealth by the 1%.

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Fascism is the union of the upper economic strata and the reactionary masses. The whole idea of the fasces is that the sticks are bundled together so they cannot be broken -- the sticks are the dominant institutions of the society, the bundling is done by the seizure of total political power by the state. In fascism the richest business leaders all work together rather than compete -- competition is directed outwards via the military aggression of the state. So while fascist social policy is racist and xenophobic to appeal to the right wing masses, fascist economics is highly plutocratic to appeal to the right wing elites.

That is exactly what is going on right now: the 1% and the dregs of our society are joining up to attack western liberal values, destroy democracy, and also destroy any opposition to the unlimited accumulation of wealth by the 1%.

But I think that an important difference is there isn't the effort to take national control of those financial and business institutions. There isn't the consolidation of power within the government. In fact, if there is anything, Trump seeks to basically pull back all regulation of business enterprises by the government. I don't think Trump is acting out in a fashion to seize power for power's sake. As you and others have pointed out, I think he's just doing what he's always done -- look for ways to line his pocket.

[Spartanforlife4]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

“I REALLY DON’T CARE, DO U?” written on the back of Melania’s jacket, refers to the Fake News Media. Melania has learned how dishonest they are, and she truly no longer cares!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) June 21, 2018

After Melania's office said there was no message, it was just a jacket.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

Those financial and business institutions are the government.

[aparch]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

... But we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. We are not nazi germany of the 1930's and those of us who are not voting straight D are not the "good germans" of this era. ...

You're right. We're not 1930's Germany.

We're 1800's America.

We're 1901 America.

We're 1918 America.

We're December 7, 1941 America.

We're December 8, 1941 America.

We're 1942 America.

We're 1943 America.

We're 1950 America.

We're 1961 America.

We're 2003 America.

But we're not 1930's Germany.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

The reason the NYT is correct is personified by this post.

You should be angry about Donald Trump and most of his policies. And you should want to do something about it.

But writing posts, tweets, letters to the editor, or in general communicating like you have in this post does not cause anyone to be persuaded to your point. In fact, it probably causes most of us to try to just quietly slip away before we get struck by the shrapnel.

Acting unhinged does not cause people to rally to your cause, and to be candid, there are many mornings when I skim through the Cafe postings and think to myself, holy s h ! t, some of these people are crazed lunatics.

If you can't become unhinged seeing innocent children being taken from their parents BY AMERICANS ON THE ORDERS OF THE AMERICAN PRESIDENT, parents who are not a danger to them, have been convicted of nothing and suspected of only a non-violent misdemeanor then there is nothing you can ever be allowed to become unhinged about. This is the most vile and rank whataboutism I have seen posted here in quite a while.

[SJHovey]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

You're right. We're not 1930's Germany.

We're 1800's America.

We're 1901 America.

We're 1918 America.

We're December 7, 1941 America.

We're December 8, 1941 America.

We're 1942 America.

We're 1943 America.

We're 1950 America.

We're 1961 America.

We're 2003 America.

But we're not 1930's Germany.

Sounds to me like all we've done for 240 years is inter people. Not sure I've argued otherwise, though.

[trixR4kids]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

I like how Hovey is splitting hairs on people calling them concentration camps... guilty conscience much? Sorry but if you have to split hairs on whether the party you support (or consistently run interference for, BSARBVR, etc.) are actual nazis or putting people in concentration camps maybe you need to reassess.

[WeAreNDHockey]

Re: POTUS: 45.36: I Designed The Sears Tower, I Make 2 Grand An Hour

How many votes are necessary to merge labor and education (which makes absolutely no sense; there is no overlap at all)

I actually think there is some overlap. Of course the trump administration is offering the typical republican claptrap about efficiency and lean government, so the reasons offered by the White House are mostly nonsense.