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  • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

    SYG laws are simply an extension of the "castle doctrine" to areas outside your home. The appropriateness of those laws really depends upon the appropriateness of the extension of that right not to flee, or "retreat."

    Personally, I've always thought it odd that the law was applied differently depending upon whether you were in your home, especially since that law was not based upon any sort of personal safety rationale or argument, but instead based upon archaic British property rights law that a man's home is his castle. But that said, it seems to me we've almost come full circle.

    100-150 years ago it was probably much more likely that you'd see people "stand your ground" in areas outside the home, and be protected by the law of self defense. Then, as the nation became more populated and there were fewer confrontations between armed individuals, fleeing essentially became the only alternative for someone faced with mortal danger. Now, with the proliferation of people carrying weapons, those individuals are much more likely to be willing to stand and fight because they think they have a chance of prevailing in that fight.

    I'm not a huge fan of forcing someone to decide whether they have to flee first, because I think that decision is way too subjective, and most likely to be second guessed by families of the person shot, the police and the prosecution, to say nothing of people like us.

    On the other hand, I do not like the idea that SYG laws may cause a certain few individuals to feel empowered to go around acting like the jello sheriff, knowing that if things get out of hand they can always whip out the old Sig Sauer and start blasting away.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

    Comment


    • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

      Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
      I truly am sorry for your loss. And I understand the drivers of where you're at.

      But these SYG laws actually allow the types of criminals you are tried to prosecute...to proactively and much more easily kill. Lawful, just, honest people don't need these laws - I would gladly take a punch to avoid killing someone. But the types of people who are looking to kill like the terrible dude in the above case...now actively pursue others in order to openly use SYG to get away with murder
      Like I said before, SYG should be SYG.
      After that you need to be able to show cause (immediate fear of great bodily harm or death) for taking a defensive action.
      The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

      North Dakota Hockey:

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      • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        ... whip out the old Sig Sauer and start blasting away.
        Never trust anyone who carries a Sig.
        The preceding post may contain trigger words and is not safe-space approved. <-- Virtue signaling.

        North Dakota Hockey:

        Comment


        • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          SYG laws are simply an extension of the "castle doctrine" to areas outside your home. The appropriateness of those laws really depends upon the appropriateness of the extension of that right not to flee, or "retreat."

          Personally, I've always thought it odd that the law was applied differently depending upon whether you were in your home, especially since that law was not based upon any sort of personal safety rationale or argument, but instead based upon archaic British property rights law that a man's home is his castle. But that said, it seems to me we've almost come full circle.

          100-150 years ago it was probably much more likely that you'd see people "stand your ground" in areas outside the home, and be protected by the law of self defense. Then, as the nation became more populated and there were fewer confrontations between armed individuals, fleeing essentially became the only alternative for someone faced with mortal danger. Now, with the proliferation of people carrying weapons, those individuals are much more likely to be willing to stand and fight because they think they have a chance of prevailing in that fight.

          I'm not a huge fan of forcing someone to decide whether they have to flee first, because I think that decision is way too subjective, and most likely to be second guessed by families of the person shot, the police and the prosecution, to say nothing of people like us.

          On the other hand, I do not like the idea that SYG laws may cause a certain few individuals to feel empowered to go around acting like the jello sheriff, knowing that if things get out of hand they can always whip out the old Sig Sauer and start blasting away.
          As being pretty hard core on this stuff, I'm fine with any sort of arming of one's home. I would rather you let me know if you've got guns lying around...I just won't go there. But bringing that armament with the idea its acceptable to defend a piece of sidewalk another matter.

          I've got hundreds of FB friends living in the heart of the city and none have been killed by roving gangs yet. I'm just not sure what the fear of others is all about. Statistically speaking you must conclude that the most dangerous person to everyone including themselves is any CC dude packing - regardless of premeditation/accident, level of training, or SYG.
          Go Gophers!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by The Sicatoka View Post
            But you said they take drunk driving seriously. Someone is dead.
            Everything in law is fact dependent. You change the facts enough, you'll get different outcomes. Otherwise known as the "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle" doctrine.

            Comment


            • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

              Originally posted by unofan View Post
              Everything in law is fact dependent. You change the facts enough, you'll get different outcomes. Otherwise known as the "if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle" doctrine.
              Only if her balls were in a manila envelope, otherwise still your aunt. Facts are pretty unimportant to about 35% of the population.

              Comment


              • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                Guessing Drew is glad as he didn't want people who are deemed too incompetent to handle their finances, barred from owning a gun:

                Comment


                • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                  Outside Magazine, one of the top couple outlets for hunters, has come out hard against the NRA. In a well articulated piece, it puts a firm and fact based case that all hunters should shun the NRA.

                  It's Time for Hunters to Leave the NRA
                  America's proudest tradition should never be used as an excuse for anti-American politics
                  Outsideonline.com

                  In the NRA, we hunters have an organization that claims to represent our interests and to which many of us pay to belong. But we also have an organization that is funding the war on our public lands to serve corporate interests, while making our beloved sport look like a bastion of far-right crackpots. And it’s doing that while using our name and money to further rip this country apart. The NRA claims to be a civil rights organization, but if we allow the organization to continue all of this, it’s actually going to destroy our right to go hunting. It’s time for hunters to leave the NRA.

                  https://www.outsideonline.com/232886...ters-leave-nra
                  Go Gophers!

                  Comment


                  • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                    Apparently this guy really needed that psyche eval.
                    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                      Guessing Drew is glad as he didn't want people who are deemed too incompetent to handle their finances, barred from owning a gun:

                      You must think elder abuse is a myth. I know people who work in that area and it most definitely isn’t. I noticed the story completely ignores his side of what happened.
                      Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                      Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

                      Comment


                      • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                        Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                        You must think elder abuse is a myth. I know people who work in that area and it most definitely isn’t. I noticed the story completely ignores his side of what happened.
                        ...and so he should have killed the facility employee?
                        Go Gophers!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                          ...and so he should have killed the facility employee?
                          Did he try to kill any of them? Again, hard to say without his side of the story.
                          Originally posted by BobbyBrady
                          Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                            ...and so he should have killed the facility employee?
                            Hey now it’s a beautiful thing when someone exercised their second amendment right.

                            Comment


                            • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                              Originally posted by Drew S. View Post
                              Did he try to kill any of them? Again, hard to say without his side of the story.
                              Well police call the paramedic 'a hero' and the guy with the gun is being charged with attempted murder...so there's that.
                              Go Gophers!

                              Comment


                              • Re: 0 Days Since Last Mass Killing: Maybe It's the Person, Not the Gun...

                                Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                                Outside Magazine, one of the top couple outlets for hunters
                                Outside is NOT a hunting magazine. It focuses on hiking, biking, rock climbing, mountaineering, rafting, kayaking, trail running, etc. Occasionally there is a hunting or fishing article, but in that case it's usually more about the destination and less about the activity.

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