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Thread: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

  1. #481

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    When I was a kid there was nowhere else on Earth I would rather be living. Nowhere. Now, there's probably a dozen places I'd rather be right now.
    Same here.

    The United States is not the greatest country in the world. Sure used to be, though.
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    Which implies that he can ORDER that to be done, as well.

    And we know that Congress has passed laws that assassination is not legal.

    Since dump tells us that he can pardon himself, and that he's above the law, it's pretty clear WHY he's buddy-buddy with Korea and Russia, and making all of our allies really angry with him. He associates with the strong arm dictator.

    This guy is pure evil to the United States of America.
    They are arguing the same thing that has been argued multiple times in the past, and which has never actually been decided by the Supreme Court -- Can a sitting president be indicted and forced to stand trial while in office.

    I think legal scholars are split on the question, and there is probably enough reading material for you on the subject to fill your day, if you're interested.

    No one is arguing that the president is above the law or ultimately can't be prosecuted for his acts. The argument is that while he is in office, Congress would first have to impeach him (which even this congress would do if he killed someone, or had them killed), then he would be prosecuted.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  3. #483
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    When I was a kid there was nowhere else on Earth I would rather be living. Nowhere. Now, there's probably a dozen places I'd rather be right now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Same here.

    The United States is not the greatest country in the world. Sure used to be, though.
    Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you guys?
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you guys?
    Barriers to employment elsewhere, primarily, at least in my case. Not exactly as easy to cross international borders permanently as it is a state border. Add in the extra time and expense to become licensed as an attorney even in another common law country, and yeah, not going to happen any time soon.

    If I win the lottery, though, all bets are off.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you guys?
    ROTFLMAO

    I'm 50 and have family that's not moving. I'm not leaving my family so I can get out of this ****hole. Just like any other father who lives in another ****hole.
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    They are arguing the same thing that has been argued multiple times in the past, and which has never actually been decided by the Supreme Court -- Can a sitting president be indicted and forced to stand trial while in office.

    I think legal scholars are split on the question, and there is probably enough reading material for you on the subject to fill your day, if you're interested.

    No one is arguing that the president is above the law or ultimately can't be prosecuted for his acts. The argument is that while he is in office, Congress would first have to impeach him (which even this congress would do if he killed someone, or had them killed), then he would be prosecuted.
    From some levels, you are correct.

    But this guy thinks he can pardon himself. Which does mean he THINKS he can't be prosecuted for his acts. Based on what Congress can do, the worst they can do is remove him from office. That's it. So he can call a strike on some US official, committing a murder, and pardon himself. And the only thing Congress can do is remove him from office.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what's stopping you guys?
    The very standard response to any negative feeling of the US. Are you just trying to be stereotypical? Of do you really think that everything the US has done is justified?

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    You guys should put your travel plans on hold until after the upcoming election. That will tell us whether or not people are indifferent to a treasonous money laundering cult running the country.
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    You guys should put your travel plans on hold until after the upcoming election. That will tell us whether or not people are indifferent to a treasonous money laundering cult running the country.
    LOL

    We elected Trump. That's enough for me. Not only that but we elected him over a woman that we were bitter wasn't locked up in jail for doing nothing wrong.
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    From some levels, you are correct.

    But this guy thinks he can pardon himself. Which does mean he THINKS he can't be prosecuted for his acts. Based on what Congress can do, the worst they can do is remove him from office. That's it. So he can call a strike on some US official, committing a murder, and pardon himself. And the only thing Congress can do is remove him from office.
    A president pardoning himself is an entirely different beast. As I recall, that same issue came up during Nixon, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't many people out there who think a president could successfully pardon himself, even those who thought that a president can't be indicted while in office.

    Now, if anyone were to try it, it would probably be Trump. Personally I think that effort would ultimately fail.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    The very standard response to any negative feeling of the US. Are you just trying to be stereotypical? Of do you really think that everything the US has done is justified?
    I certainly don't think the country is perfect, or hasn't made some very significant errors.

    That said, I'm happy I'm living here and I can't think of anyplace I'd rather live. Scooby and Kep seem intelligent enough, and certainly capable of relocating if they really wanted to. I was just curious why they hadn't.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.


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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I certainly don't think the country is perfect, or hasn't made some very significant errors.

    That said, I'm happy I'm living here and I can't think of anyplace I'd rather live. Scooby and Kep seem intelligent enough, and certainly capable of relocating if they really wanted to. I was just curious why they hadn't.
    No matter where you go, you are still an American. So why leave when you can try to make it better.

    We will leave when it's clear that there is no return, but I very much don't see that point- while it sucks right now, it's still better than 1968, and I'm sure we will go there before we go full Nazi. Still, the trend to a dictatorship that favors one kind of people over another, and the people in this country thinking that is a good idea is very disappointing.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Day 24 of Melania Watch. Now she will not be traveling to the NK summit or G7.

    Looks like we have reached the divorce storyline in House of Cards, except she's not American so they can't randomly make up to become running mates.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    No matter where you go, you are still an American. So why leave when you can try to make it better.

    We will leave when it's clear that there is no return, but I very much don't see that point- while it sucks right now, it's still better than 1968, and I'm sure we will go there before we go full Nazi. Still, the trend to a dictatorship that favors one kind of people over another, and the people in this country thinking that is a good idea is very disappointing.
    Not sure this is better than 1968. You have a combination of 1968 and 1972-73 going on at the same time this time. That's a doubling down we've never had before.
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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    A president pardoning himself is an entirely different beast. As I recall, that same issue came up during Nixon, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't many people out there who think a president could successfully pardon himself, even those who thought that a president can't be indicted while in office.

    Now, if anyone were to try it, it would probably be Trump. Personally I think that effort would ultimately fail.
    I'm not sure why you don't see that as the immediate threat. This president thinks he is above the law, they propose that he can shoot someone, and not be indited for it. And since he can pardon himself, he can then do that, and not be prosecuted after Congress impeaches him out of office.

    That is incredibly dangerous.

    Heck, he thinks he can't be indited for things he did BEFORE he was president. And since he can pardon himself, whatever he did that was against the law, he can pardon himself for now, and be free after ending the presidency. That's completely insane.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    They are arguing the same thing that has been argued multiple times in the past, and which has never actually been decided by the Supreme Court -- Can a sitting president be indicted and forced to stand trial while in office.

    I think legal scholars are split on the question, and there is probably enough reading material for you on the subject to fill your day, if you're interested.

    No one is arguing that the president is above the law or ultimately can't be prosecuted for his acts. The argument is that while he is in office, Congress would first have to impeach him (which even this congress would do if he killed someone, or had them killed), then he would be prosecuted.
    That is not what they are "arguing".

    They are flat out telling you he cannot be indicted, subpoenaed, or compelled to appear in court in any way. That he is above the law, and does not have to follow it. That he can kill people willfully with no consequences. And if such efforts were made toward him, he's still beyond the reach of the law because he can simply pardon himself for whatever crimes he has committed.

    And you'll be ok with that because, after all, "he has the authority".


    When are you going to start listening to what they are actually telling you, instead of "interpreting" what they are saying.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Not sure this is better than 1968. You have a combination of 1968 and 1972-73 going on at the same time this time. That's a doubling down we've never had before.
    We have a lot fewer violent protests, and so far, nobody has been shot at a campus protesting what the orange moron is doing. We are a lot better than '68.

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    A president pardoning himself is an entirely different beast. As I recall, that same issue came up during Nixon, and I'm pretty sure that there aren't many people out there who think a president could successfully pardon himself, even those who thought that a president can't be indicted while in office.

    Now, if anyone were to try it, it would probably be Trump. Personally I think that effort would ultimately fail.
    You have an unbridled, almost na´ve, trust in today's institutional constraints on a president, and the people of this country. It's almost charming that you have such trust, given what we've seen the last 30 years.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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    Re: POTUS 45.34: Spy Gate. No Spy. No Gate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
    Day 24 of Melania Watch. Now she will not be traveling to the NK summit or G7.

    Looks like we have reached the divorce storyline in House of Cards, except she's not American so they can't randomly make up to become running mates.
    I think ICE might have deported her.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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