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Thread: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

  1. #1
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    Question UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Saw UND shut down womens hockey. Where did their recruits go?

    https://deadspin.com/north-dakota-cu...out-1793872610

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Where have you been hiding?

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackI View Post
    Saw UND shut down womens hockey. Where did their recruits go?

    https://deadspin.com/north-dakota-cu...out-1793872610
    I believe the recruit in the article ended up at Lindenwood....
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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Interesting. Think they have any chance of prevailing?

    Former UND women's hockey players file discrimination suit
    https://www.grandforksherald.com/spo...imination-suit
    Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Interesting. Think they have any chance of prevailing?

    Former UND women's hockey players file discrimination suit
    https://www.grandforksherald.com/spo...imination-suit
    I don't believe it will be successful. I doubt the Sue would have done this without full confidence from their own legal council that is was an airtight situation, knowing this move could easily end up getting the response it is getting now. I question the timing of it, a year plus afterwards, and how will these young ladies pay for this? I think they made their point when the Sue shut the program down (with full support of the entire women's college hockey community), big picture this could be a lot of money spend on both sides for no gain.
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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I don't believe it will be successful. I doubt the Sue would have done this without full confidence from their own legal council that is was an airtight situation, knowing this move could easily end up getting the response it is getting now. I question the timing of it, a year plus afterwards, and how will these young ladies pay for this? I think they made their point when the Sue shut the program down (with full support of the entire women's college hockey community), big picture this could be a lot of money spend on both sides for no gain.
    UND has done a number of legally dubious things over the years, so I'm not sure that their counsel having confidence that their case is airtight ought to inspire the same level of confidence in everyone else. That said, I'm dubious that this case would win at trial, on two grounds. The first is that I don't see how the remedy sought, reinstating the UND women's hockey program, would address any damages suffered by the plaintiffs. They've moved on and are playing hockey elsewhere, and will likely be out of eligibility by the time the case would be resolved. Once that happens, the case would probably be ruled moot and dismissed. There are occasions when a case is allowed to continue in such circumstances, but it's rare.

    The second is based upon this sentence in the article: "Title IX does not require schools to offer particular sports or the same sports, but it requires that schools “effectively accommodate” student interests and abilities." The U.S. Supreme Court has held that this part of Title IX is not a requirement that schools "effectively accommodate" the interests and abilities of each individual student, but rather that they must provide equal accommodation for men and women in general. Obviously, you can't draw strong conclusions about plaintiffs' overall legal reasoning from a brief newspaper article, but they'd have to have something more than this.

    I suspect that the intention here isn't to take this to trial, but rather to use the filing to pressure the university to sit down and talk about reinstating the program.

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by D2D View Post
    Interesting. Think they have any chance of prevailing?

    Former UND women's hockey players file discrimination suit
    https://www.grandforksherald.com/spo...imination-suit
    Maybe we could get the Whioux poster that came up with "17" to comment on the chances.

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    I suspect that the intention here isn't to take this to trial, but rather to use the filing to pressure the university to sit down and talk about reinstating the program.
    Agreed, but didn't this discussion already take place and isn't this what was needed?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrag8ll85w

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Agreed, but didn't this discussion already take place and isn't this what was needed?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFrag8ll85w
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h4DZeBleLs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    I don't believe it will be successful. I doubt the Sue would have done this without full confidence from their own legal council that is was an airtight situation, knowing this move could easily end up getting the response it is getting now. I question the timing of it, a year plus afterwards, and how will these young ladies pay for this? I think they made their point when the Sue shut the program down (with full support of the entire women's college hockey community), big picture this could be a lot of money spend on both sides for no gain.
    "the Sue"?!?!

    Are you trying to be funny or just being dumb???

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    "the Sue"?!?!

    Are you trying to be funny or just being dumb???
    Yes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    Yes.
    Lol, that's exactly what I thought.

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    "the Sue"?!?!

    Are you trying to be funny or just being dumb???
    They will always be the Fightin' Sue to me. Screw political correctness. It's a game.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 WE WANT MORE!
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Some broad thoughts:

    Yes, you all are right that Title IX does NOT require all interests to be effectively accommodated. It is the third prong of the three-prong test. It's clear to me that UND has not been aiming for compliance by that prong. (Though the failing of the third prong IS a necessary condition for a Title IX violation)

    Without a doubt UND was seeking compliance through the first-prong, substantive proportionality. In the Title IX case law, merely achieving proportionality has typically been considered a safe harbor. Timothy A mentions that UND's lawyers must have believed the case is "airtight" -- this is likely why.

    Nonetheless I believe such a conclusion by UND's lawyers is misguided. The ruling would hinge on the meaning of "substantive proportionality." As I wrote in my letter to Herald last year (link below), cutting the flagship women's sport for a school is unprecedented. If there were any time such that proportionality would fail to be "substantive" I believe this is it, and it sounds from coverage that the students' legal team is using similar reasoning.
    http://www.grandforksherald.com/opin...ce-remains-air

    Regarding
    The first is that I don't see how the remedy sought, reinstating the UND women's hockey program, would address any damages suffered by the plaintiffs. They've moved on and are playing hockey elsewhere, and will likely be out of eligibility by the time the case would be resolved. Once that happens, the case would probably be ruled moot and dismissed. There are occasions when a case is allowed to continue in such circumstances, but it's rare.
    It's a fair point to raise, but I find it reasonable to argue that there is significant value in the continuation of your women's hockey program and growing its alumni network.

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    or just being dumb???
    Whioux's being dumb? TimothyA or...

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHoleFrenzy View Post
    Whioux's being dumb? TimothyA or...
    Lol, so Sioux me!

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    Re: UND Womens Shutdown : Where did recruits go?

    I will play no more, forever?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave1381 View Post
    Some broad thoughts:

    Without a doubt UND was seeking compliance through the first-prong, substantive proportionality. In the Title IX case law, merely achieving proportionality has typically been considered a safe harbor. Timothy A mentions that UND's lawyers must have believed the case is "airtight" -- this is likely why.

    Nonetheless I believe such a conclusion by UND's lawyers is misguided.
    This is why UND hired an outside firm that specializes in Title 9:

    A UND news release addressing the cuts stated the institution hired the outside counsel of the Baker Donelson law firm to guide the school through the Title IX implications of the decision.

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