NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

[joecct]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

A lot of GMs just got brutally embarrassed. I'm looking at you, Garth Snow.

The long long winter may have come to an end...

@StapeAthletic: Exclusive: Lou Lamoriello will be hired to run Islanders' hockey operations https://theathletic.com/363029/2018/...ey-operations/

[First Time, Long Time]

It's not anger at the franchise necessarily it's Bettman. Vegas played the game well but I I'm not going to be awed nor happy about it.



The pool was better because they reduced how many players could be protected and there was only 1 franchise choosing from said pool.

Bettman? You mean the owners...that's who Bettman works for. If the owners weren't ok with it...he really can't do much.

[hockeyplayer1015]

Because it has never been done before? You've seen subsequent posts that detail precisely the advantages they had that previous franchises nowhere came close to having. Like I said - good for them for taking advantage of it, eff Bettman for allowing it to happen in the first place.

http://sinbin.vegas/killing-easy-expansion-rules-argument/

[aparch]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

Maybe instead of blaming Bettman or Vegas, Wild fans need to point the blame at their own GM:

Here’s where Minnesota is deserving of some criticism: Why wasn’t Haula scoring 29 goals for them? Why didn’t they realize what they had in him, and maybe given themselves a reason to keep him instead of giving him away to protect someone else? Or, perhaps having a trade asset that could have actually brought them something meaningful in return if they had to lose him. Over the past two years Haula was getting third-or and at times fourth-line minutes for the Wild and still scoring 15 goals.

On a per-minute basis he was consistently one of their most productive players. Before you write off his 29-goal season this year as a fluke, just look at what he was doing individually during 5-on-5 play.

Kind of the same. The big difference this season is that in Vegas he had the opportunity to play 18 minutes per night instead of 12 minutes per night. Keep in mind that last year Minnesota had Haula on their roster and decided it had to trade for Martin Hanzal (giving up first-and second-round draft picks) and then gave him more minutes than Haula over the final 20 regular season games and playoffs.

It’s your job as a GM to know what you have. The Wild had Haula and wasted him, then willingly gave him away plus another pretty good young forward.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Maybe instead of blaming Bettman or Vegas, Wild fans need to point the blame at their own GM:

I’ve thought chuck needed to go for years. Probably gpl vs here where I’ve said more

[Slap Shot]

Maybe instead of blaming Bettman or Vegas, Wild fans need to point the blame at their own GM:

The Wild are to blame for their current roster which says nothing about the advantages afforded Vegas never before provided any other. You and the other hard to read dimwit need to try harder.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

The Wild are to blame for their current roster which says nothing about the advantages afforded Vegas never before provided any other. You and the other hard to read dimwit need to try harder.

Agreed - their bad contracts are their fault.
Would have been nice to be able to have the Vegas rules for their expansion draft though.

[hockeyplayer1015]

The Wild are to blame for their current roster which says nothing about the advantages afforded Vegas never before provided any other. You and the other hard to read dimwit need to try harder.

I think you need a smaller violin for your pity party.

I have acknowledged (multiple times) that sure, they had favorable rules. But you keep failing to realize they all had career best years, which is WHY they have been as successful as they have. They probably regress to the mean a bit next year.

[Slap Shot]

I think you need a smaller violin for your pity party.

I have acknowledged (multiple times) that sure, they had favorable rules. But you keep failing to realize they all had career best years, which is WHY they have been as successful as they have. They probably regress to the mean a bit next year.

What pity party have I asked for? None (so gee eff why) and certain players having career years is irrelevant to the topic. The method for this expansion draft didn't just come into question recently. Try to catch up.

[aparch]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

Agreed - their bad contracts are their fault.
Would have been nice to be able to have the Vegas rules for their expansion draft though.

Then you should have told Columbus to wait a year to join the league.

[aparch]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ticle22403418/

Available lists announced by the National Hockey League for its 2000 expansion draft, to be held on Friday, June 23 in Calgary (Columbus Blue Jackets and Minnesota Wild will select 26 players each, two from each NHL club except the Nashville Predators and the Atlanta Thrashers):

Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Forwards -- Frank Banham, Ted Donato, Stu Grimson, Tony Hrkac, Tobias Johansson, Peter Leboutillier, Tommi Miettinen, Kip Miller, Jeff Nielsen, Jeremy Stevenson, Tony Tuzzolino, Bob Wren. Defencemen -- Timo Ahmaoja, Ladislav Benysek, Mike Crowley, Scott Ferguson, Kevin Haller, Dean Malkoc, Fredrik Olausson, Lloyd Shaw, Pascal Trepanier, Nikolai Tsulygin. Goalies -- Tom Askey, Guy Hebert, Corey Hirsch, Dominic Roussel, Blaine Russell.

Boston Bruins Forwards -- Shawn Bates, Ken Belanger, Aaron Downey, Peter Ferraro, Steve Heinze, Joe Hulbig, Dimitri Kvartalnov, Antti Laaksonen, Cameron Mann, Peter Nordstrom, Sean Pronger, Joel Prpic, Anders Soderberg, Joel Trottier, Landon Wilson, Jeff Zehr. Defencemen -- Elias Abrahamsson, Johnathan Aitken, Shane Belter, Vratislav Cech, Mike Matteucci, Keith McCambridge, Marty McSorley, Brandon Smith, Don Sweeney, Mattias Timander, Denis Timofeev, Eric Van Acker, Sergei Zhukov. Goalies -- Robbie Tallas.

Buffalo Sabres Forwards -- Stu Barnes, Eric Boulton, Randy Cunneyworth, Matt Davidson, Mark Dutiaume, Craig Fisher, Doug Gilmour, Denis Hamel, Paul Kruse, Scott Nichol, Domenic Pittis, Rob Ray, Geoff Sanderson, Chris Taylor, Vladimir Tsyplakov, Dixon Ward. Defencemen -- J-Luc Grand-Pierre, Jason Holland, Doug Houda, Mike Hurlbut, James Patrick, Richard Smehlik, Jason Woolley. Goalies -- Dwayne Roloson

Calgary Flames Forwards -- Jason Botterill, Marc Bureau, Jeff Cowan, Steve Dubinsky, Benoit Gratton, Andreas Johansson, Mattias Johansson, Esa Keskinen, Sergei Krivokrasov, Jan Labraaten, Jesper Mattsson, Marty Murray, Dave Roche, Martin St. Louis, Josef Straka, John Tripp, Sergei Zolotov. Defencemen -- Eric Charron, Bobby Dollas, Johan Finnstrom, Filip Kuba, Stewart Malgunas, Fredrik Oduya, Pavel Rajnoha, Dimitri Riabykin, Darryl Shannon, Steve Smith, Lee Sorochan, Brad Werenka. Goalies -- Grant Fuhr, Tyrone Garner, Andrei Trefilov.

Carolina Hurricanes Forwards -- Eric Dandenault, Jeff Daniels, Gilbert Dionne, Martin Gelinas, Dimitri Gorenko, Andrei Kovalenko, Robert Kron, Mike Morrone, Andrei Petrunin, Askhat Rakhmatullin, Byron Ritchie, Todd Simon, Kevin Smyth. Defencemen -- Steve Bancroft, Paul Coffey, Len Esau, Sergei Fedotov, Hugh Hamilton, Dave Karpa, Curtis Leschyshyn, Mike Rucinski. Goalies -- Mark Fitzpatrick, Marc Magliarditi.

Chicago Blackhawks Forwards -- Blair Atcheynum, Jeff Christian, Jeff Daw, Chris Herperger, David Ling, Josef Marha, Ed Olczyk, Nathan Perrott, Derek Plante, Bob Probert. Defencemen -- Radim Bicanek, Ted Crowley, Kevin Dean, Dallas Eakins, Todd Rohloff, Marty Wilford, Doug Zmolek. Goalies -- Marc Lamothe, Erasmo Saltarelli.

Colorado Avalanche Forwards -- Dave Andreychuk, Serge Aubin, Tomi Hirvonen, Mikael Johansson, Christian Matte, Jeff Odgers, Dave Reid, Rob Shearer. Defencemen -- Jason Bowen, Greg De Vries, Michael Gaul, Alexei Gusarov, Sami Helenius, Eric Messier, Dan Smith. Goalies -- David Aebischer, Frederic Cassivi, Kai Fischer, Petr Franek, Rick Tabaracci.

Dallas Stars Forwards -- Guy Carbonneau, Kelly Fairchild, Sergei Luchinkin, Warren Luhning, Chris Murray, Brian Skrudland, Scott Thornton, Jamie Wright. Defencemen -- Frederic Bouchard, Joel Bouchard, Shawn Chambers, Sylvain Cote, Alan Letang, Dave Manson, Matt Martin, Evgeny Petrochinin, Jamie Pushor, Mark Wotton. Goalies -- Chad Alban, Mike Bales.

Detroit Red Wings Forwards -- Pavel Agarkov, Doug Brown, David Engblom, Johan Forsander, Brent Gilchrist, Alexandre Jacques, Joe Kocur, Darryl Laplante, Igor Larionov, Stacy Roest, Anatoly Ustugov, Pat Verbeek, B.J. Young. Defencemen -- Todd Gill, Yan Golubovsky, Uwe Krupp, Maxim Kuznetsov, Larry Murphy. Goalies -- David Arsenault, Manny Legace, Ken Wregget.

Edmonton Oilers Forwards -- Kevin Brown, Jozef Cierny, Patrick Cote, Boyd Devereaux, Jim Dowd, Ralph Intranuovo, Dan Lacouture, Rob Murray, Michel Picard, Martin Reichel, Keijo Sailynoja, Alexander Selivanov, Jussi Tarvainen, German Titov, Alexander Volchkov, Vladimir Vorobiev. Defencemen -- Adam Bennett, Brett Hauer, Frantisek Musil, Alain Nasreddine, Sami Nuutinen, Bert Robertsson, Reijo Ruotsalainen, Alexander Zhurik, Lukas Zib. Goalies -- Mike Minard, Bill Ranford, Kay Whitmore.

Florida Panthers Forwards -- Len Barrie, Paul Brousseau, Chad Cabana, Dave Duerden, Alex Hicks, Craig Reichert, Ray Sheppard, Cam Stewart, Rocky Thompson. Defencemen -- Lance Pitlick, Brent Thompson, Jeff Ware. Goalies -- Ryan Bach, Sean Gauthier, Denis Khloptonov, Mikhail Shtalenkov, Rich Shulmistra, Mike Vernon.

Los Angeles Kings Forwards -- Eric Belanger, Dan Bylsma, Bob Corkum, Allan Egeland, Nelson Emerson, Craig Johnson, Nathan Lafayette, Steve McKenna, Igor Melyakov, Jason Morgan, Jason Podollan, Pavel Rosa, Mikael Simons, John Thomas, Jukka Tiilikainen, Marko Tuomainen, Juha Vuorivirta, Magnus Wernblom. Defencemen -- Philippe Boucher, Rich Brennan, Garry Galley, Dave MacIsaac, Jaroslav Modry, Jan Nemecek, Sean O'Donnell, Martin Strebak. Goalies -- Marcel Cousineau, Michael O'Neill, Steve Passmore, Travis Scott.

Montreal Canadiens Forwards -- Niklas Anger, Jesse Belanger, Shayne Corson, Jim Cummins, Craig Darby, Jonathan Delisle, Matt Higgins, Arto Kuki, Trent McCleary, Boyd Olson, Oleg Petrov, Patrick Poulin, Terry Ryan, Kim Staal, Turner Stevenson, Peter Strom, Timo Vertala. Defencemen -- Byron Briske, Matthieu Descoteaux, Karl Dykhuis, Miloslav Guren, Scott Lachance, Christian Laflamme, Mike McBain, Barry Richter, Stephane Robidas, Eric Weinrich. Goalies -- Frederic Chabot, Eric Fichaud, Kevin Hodson.

New Jersey Devils Forwards -- Jiri Bicek, Steve Brule, Sylvain Cloutier, Steve Kelly, Sasha Lakovic, Claude Lemieux, Sergei Nemchinov, Richard Rochefort, Rob Skrlac, Steve Staios, Ed Ward, Jeff Williams, Dody Wood, Nikolai Zavarukhin. Defencemen -- Brad Bombardir, Vladimir Malakhov, Pasi Petrilainen, Deron Quint, Ken Sutton. Goalies -- Mike Buzak, Frederic Henry, Chris Terreri.

New York Islanders Forwards -- Ted Drury, Mark Lawrence. Defencemen -- Ian Herbers. Goalies -- Wade Flaherty.

New York Rangers Forwards -- Derek Armstrong, Alexandre Daigle, Christian Dube, Ken Gernander, Daniel Goneau, Valeri Kamensky, Christopher Kenady F, Radoslav Kropac, Alexei Lazarenko, John MacLean, Brad Smyth, Kevin Stevens, P.J. Stock, Dmitri Subbotin, Rudolf Vercik, Chris Wells. Defencemen -- Drew Bannister, Ilja Gorohov, Kevin Hatcher, Rich Pilon, Ola Sandberg, Mathieu Schneider, Terry Virtue, David Wilkie. Goalies -- Milan Hnilicka, Jean-Francois Labbe, Kirk McLean, Vitali Yeremeyev.

Ottawa Senators Forwards -- Viacheslav Butsayev, Ivan Ciernik, Kevin Dineen, Colin Forbes, David Hruska, Joe Juneau, Kevin Miller, Yves Sarault, Andy Schneider, Jeff Shevalier, Shaun Van Allen, Rob Zamuner. Defencemen -- Erich Goldmann, Kevin Grimes, John Gruden, Igor Kravchuk, Grant Ledyard, David Van Drunen. Goalies -- Tom Barrasso, Mike Fountain, Rich Parent.

Philadelphia Flyers Forwards -- Craig Berube, Travis Brigley, Martin Cerven, Jody Hull, Mark Janssens, Keith Jones, Mike Maneluk, Steve McLaren, Jim Montgomery, Sean O'Brien, Ruslan Shafikov, Radovan Somik, Martin Streit, Rick Tocchet, Steve Washburn, Peter White, Todd White, Valeri Zelepukin. Defencemen -- Artem Anisimov, Adam Burt, Jeff Lank, Dean Melanson, Ulf Samuelsson. Goalies -- Per-Ragnar Bergqvist, Neil Little, John Vanbiesbrouck.

Phoenix Coyotes Forwards -- Greg Adams, Philippe Audet, Louie Debrusk, Dallas Drake, Tavis Hansen, Benoit Hogue, Eric Houde, Steven King, Frederik Loven, Craig Mills, David Oliver, Kevin Sawyer, Mike Sullivan, Shayne Toporowski, Jean-Guy Trudel. Defencemen -- Trent Cull, Jean-Jacques Daigneault, Dan Focht, Sean Gagnon, Chris Joseph, Francois Leroux, Per Anton Lundstrom, Sean McCann, Lyle Odelein, Brad Tiley. Goalies -- Sean Burke, Sylvain Daigle, Bob Essensa, Henrik Smangs.

Pittsburgh Penguins Forwards -- Jan Alinc, Josef Beranek, Dennis Bonvie, Rob Brown, Tom Chorske, Pat Falloon, Mikhail Kazakevich, Jiri Kucera, Stephen Leach, Ian Moran, Timo Seikkula, Mika Valila, Tyler Wright, Boris Zelenko. Defencemen -- Stefan Bergqvist, Jonas Andersson-Junkka, Peter Popovic, John Slaney, Dan Trebil. Goalies -- Tyler Moss, Peter Skudra, Ron Tugnutt.

St. Louis Blues Forwards -- Bob Bassen, Derek Bekar, Sylvain Blouin, Jim Campbell, Kelly Chase, Mike Eastwood, Derek King, Reed Low, Tyson Nash, Scott Pellerin, Andrei Petrakov, Pascal Rheaume, Stephane Richer, Stephane Roy, Tore Vikingstad. Defencemen -- Marc Bergevin, Vladimir Chebaturkin, Dave Ellett, Jeff Finley, Edvin Frylen, Yuri Gunko, Bryan Helmer, Dan Keczmer, Ricard Persson, Dmitri Plekhanov, Rudy Poeschek, Libor Prochazka, Darren Rumble, Matt Smith. Goalies -- Jamie McLennan.

San Jose Sharks Forwards -- Michal Bros, Adam Colagiacomo, Mike Craig, Jarrett Deuling, Doug Friedman, Tony Granato, Eric Landry, Dave Lowry, Stephane Matteau, Brantt Myhres, Peter Roed, Jarrod Skalde, Ron Stern, Ron Sutter. Defencemen -- Chris Armstrong, Jon Coleman, Angel Nikolov, Jeff Norton, Bob Rouse. Goalies -- Jonas Forsberg, Terry Friesen, John Nabokov.

Tampa Bay Lightning Forwards -- Shawn Burr, Xavier Delisle, Bruce Gardiner, Dan Kesa, Steve Martins, Robert Petrovicky, Reid Simpson, Pavel Torgaev. Defencemen -- Jassen Cullimore, Bryan Muir, Jason Robinson. Goalies -- Zac Bierk, Dieter Kochan, Daren Puppa.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

Tony hrkac? Wow!

[aparch]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

Toronto Maple Leafs Forwards -- Kevyn Adams, Lonny Bohonos, Jason Bonsignore, Aaron Brand, Wendel Clark, Mark Deyell, Kris King, Don MacLean, Alyn McCauley, Marek Melenovsky, David Nemirovsky, Ryan Pepperall, Shawn Thornton, Garry Valk, Brian Wiseman. Defencemen -- Greg Andrusak, Bryan Berard, Nathan Dempsey, Gerald Diduck, Tommi Rajamaki, Terran Sandwith, D.J. Smith. Goalies -- Glenn Healy, Francis Larivee, Jimmy Waite.

Vancouver Canucks Forwards -- Hakan Ahlund, Jevgeni Babariko, Brian Bonin, Paul Ferone, Martin Gendron, Roger Hansson, Darby Hendrickson, Brad May, Mark Messier, Steffan Nilsson, Lubomir Vaic, Harry York. Defencemen -- Roger Akerstrom, Chad Allan, Greg Hawgood, Karri Kivi, Chris O'Sullivan, Brent Sopel. Goalies -- Tim Keyes, Corey Schwab, Garth Snow.

Washington Capitals Forwards -- Mike Eagles, Miika Elomo, Trevor Halverson, Jim McKenzie, Barrie Moore, Ryan Mulhern, Joe Murphy, Jeff Nelson, Michal Pivonka, Joe Sacco, Jeff Toms, Stefan Ustorf, Terry Yake. Defencemen -- Nolan Baumgartner, Patrick Boileau, Jamie Huscroft, Dmitri Mironov, Oleg Orekhovsky, Steve Poapst, Rob Zettler, Sergei Zimakov. Goalies -- Stephane Beauregard, Craig Billington, Martin Brochu, Sebastien Charpentier.

Here's who was taken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NHL_Expansion_Draft

1. Rick Tabaracci (G) Colorado Avalanche Columbus Blue Jackets
2. Jamie McLennan (G) St. Louis Blues Minnesota Wild
3. Mike Vernon (G) Florida Panthers Minnesota Wild
4. Frederic Chabot (G) Montreal Canadiens Columbus Blue Jackets
5. Dwayne Roloson (G) Buffalo Sabres Columbus Blue Jackets
6. Chris Terreri (G) New Jersey Devils Minnesota Wild
7. Sean O'Donnell (D) Los Angeles Kings Minnesota Wild
8. Mattias Timander (D) Boston Bruins Columbus Blue Jackets
9. Bert Robertsson (D) Edmonton Oilers Columbus Blue Jackets
10. Curtis Leschyshyn (D) Carolina Hurricanes Minnesota Wild
11. Tommi Rajamaki (D) Toronto Maple Leafs Columbus Blue Jackets
12. Ladislav Benysek (D) Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Minnesota Wild
13. Chris Armstrong (D) San Jose Sharks Minnesota Wild
14. Jamie Pushor (D) Dallas Stars Columbus Blue Jackets
15. Filip Kuba (D) Calgary Flames Minnesota Wild
16. Lyle Odelein (D) Phoenix Coyotes Columbus Blue Jackets
17. Radim Bicanek (D) Chicago Blackhawks Columbus Blue Jackets
18. Oleg Orekhovsky (D) Washington Capitals Minnesota Wild
19. Mathieu Schneider (D) New York Rangers Columbus Blue Jackets
20. Ian Herbers (D) New York Islanders Minnesota Wild
21. Artem Anisimov (D) Philadelphia Flyers Minnesota Wild
22. Jonas Junkka (D) Pittsburgh Penguins Columbus Blue Jackets
23. Geoff Sanderson (LW) Buffalo Sabres Columbus Blue Jackets
24. Stacy Roest (C) Detroit Red Wings Minnesota Wild
25. Darryl Laplante (C) Detroit Red Wings Minnesota Wild
26. Turner Stevenson (RW) Montreal Canadiens Columbus Blue Jackets
27. Scott Pellerin (LW) St. Louis Blues Minnesota Wild
28. Robert Kron (C) Carolina Hurricanes Columbus Blue Jackets
29. Steve Heinze (RW) Boston Bruins Columbus Blue Jackets
30. Jim Dowd (C) Edmonton Oilers Minnesota Wild
31. Tyler Wright (C) Pittsburgh Penguins Columbus Blue Jackets
32. Sergei Krivokrasov (RW) Calgary Flames Minnesota Wild
33. Jeff Nielsen (RW) Mighty Ducks of Anaheim Minnesota Wild
34. Kevyn Adams (C) Toronto Maple Leafs Columbus Blue Jackets
35. Jeff Odgers (RW) Colorado Avalanche Minnesota Wild
36. Dmitri Subbotin (F) New York Rangers Columbus Blue Jackets
37. Steve McKenna (F) Los Angeles Kings Minnesota Wild
38. Dallas Drake (RW) Phoenix Coyotes Columbus Blue Jackets
39. Bruce Gardiner (C) Tampa Bay Lightning Columbus Blue Jackets
40. Michal Bros (F) San Jose Sharks Minnesota Wild
41. Joe Juneau (C) Ottawa Senators Minnesota Wild
42. Barrie Moore (LW) Washington Capitals Columbus Blue Jackets
43. Darby Hendrickson (C) Vancouver Canucks Minnesota Wild
44. Martin Streit (F) Philadelphia Flyers Columbus Blue Jackets
45. Kevin Dineen (RW) Ottawa Senators Columbus Blue Jackets
46. Jeff Daw (C) Chicago Blackhawks Minnesota Wild
47. Jeff Williams (LW) New Jersey Devils Columbus Blue Jackets
48. Stefan Nilsson (F) Vancouver Canucks Minnesota Wild
49. Zac Bierk (G) Tampa Bay Lightning Minnesota Wild
50. Sergei Luchinkin (RW) Dallas Stars Columbus Blue Jackets
51. Cam Stewart (LW) Florida Panthers Minnesota Wild
52. Ted Drury (C) New York Islanders Columbus Blue Jackets

Hindsight 20/20... who do you draft?

This looks to be roughly the same. Third/Fourth line guys. A couple long in the tooth overpaid goalies.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: NHL 2018: When the AI GM is smarter than actual GMs...

Here's who was taken:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NHL_Expansion_Draft

Hindsight 20/20... who do you draft?

This looks to be roughly the same. Third/Fourth line guys. A couple long in the tooth overpaid goalies.

Yeah, you're right, Darby Hendrickson=James Neal. Jamie McClennan=Marc-Andre Fluery.

McPhee and and Vegas deserve a lot of credit for taking advantage of the expansion rules, but you're kidding yourself if you think it's in any way equal to what previous teams had to chose from.

Oh, and I disliked the Tuch trade from the beginning. Most Wild fans did.

[Deutsche Gopher Fan]

Yeah, you're right, Darby Hendrickson=James Neal. Jamie McClennan=Marc-Andre Fluery.

McPhee and and Vegas deserve a lot of credit for taking advantage of the expansion rules, but you're kidding yourself if you think it's in any way equal to what previous teams had to chose from.

Oh, and I disliked the Tuch trade from the beginning. Most Wild fans did.

Thank you!!