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Thread: Transfers thread

  1. #81
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    It's equally self-evident that our individual actions can impact others in the group/company/team. All I've asked is that impact be given some consideration; that self-interest not be the only relevant variable. Asking people to open their minds and consider other factors? Perhaps a challenge, but definitely not an attack.
    No, that is not all that you've asked. You have asked that athletes hold themselves to a higher standard than people elsewhere. You are transferring your ideal about what sports should be and imposing it on them. You are correct that it is true that everyone, barring some of those who own a sole proprietorship with no employees or investors, has others who are counting them on the job. That was the genesis of my original post to the effect that the people criticizing the idea of transferring are likely throwing rocks out of glass houses. I don't disagree with a single thing you've written in this post up to this point. The problem is that it contradicts what you have written in several other posts.

    You are wildly wrong about my motivation for being involved in sports. Not that I gave you enough information to draw legitimate conclusions on that point; I didn't. But again, you just assume whatever you want because you like knocking over the straw man.
    I'm going with what you have written. You're the one who wrote, "Immediate play transfers also rub me the wrong way. It's yet another case where individual self-interest takes absolute priority over "old fashioned" values like loyalty," which is vastly less nuanced than what you said above. You may claim that you haven't attacked any individual transferring, but that's only because you attacked all of them. You are the one who decided that the word "absolute" belonged in that sentence, with the inescapable implication that the transferring athletes lack loyalty.

    You're the one who wrote, "But an immediate play transfer? Setting aside current loyalties in that circumstance feels just a little too easy," which undercuts the disclaimer you made at the start of that same paragraph and which you later cited.

    You're the one who wrote, "But loyalty to teammates should factor into these decisions," which implies that the athlete looking to transfer doesn't factor it in.

    You're the one who wrote, "Even fans, who give up whole weekends at time to support their team, deserve a little consideration," which started the argument that this is at all about you.

    You're the one who wrote, "I am suggesting that they hold themselves to a slightly higher standard than would be required by most other endeavors. But I've always believed that sports should be a bit of an escape from the business world. A place where concepts like team and loyalty continue to matter . . ." which means that the athletes have some sort of obligation to relieve your disappointment with the rest of the world.

    If none of that is what you meant to say, the problem isn't that your posts aren't perfect. It's that they consistently send a very different message than what you intended. You should probably stop to think about what it is that you want to say before plunging in.

    That's something truly worth defending, IMHO. But you seem utterly detached from what I feel is central to the experience. On this last point, I'm not offended. Baffled would be more like it.
    It isn't so much that I'm detached from what you feel is central to the experience as it is that I think that what you (or I; after all, I wrote a novel whose basic thesis isn't very far off from what you're laying out here) feel is central to the experience is an inappropriate way to judge athletes who transfer to another school. Your posts are long on what you think is important. They're long on what you think sports are about. They're long on what you think are problems with the world in general. They're long on trying to protect what you see as an escape. You want today's kids to have a positive experience as you define it.

    What your posts are really short on is letting the athletes decide for themselves what is important and what makes for a positive experience for them. I respect that you don't get to know the players; I'm the same way. But that means that both of us are completely out of touch with them, and that it's presumptuous of us to make judgments as to what they want. (I strongly suspect that the fans who do think that they've gotten to know the players are kidding themselves and aren't any better informed about this than we are.) Stop making this about yourself, and let the athletes decide for themselves. If that kills what makes sports meaningful for you, then you need to find a different escape.
    Last edited by Still Eeyore; 07-12-2018 at 04:34 AM.

  2. #82
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by wildcatcard View Post
    Maybe the Non-Easternschools should improve the academics at those institutions.
    The word on the street was that Cianfarano couldn't get into WI academically (where she had originally committed to), so she ended up @ Q.....just the word on the street as to why she decommitted from UW and went to Q.
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  3. #83
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    Re: Transfers thread

    I think someone mentioned it awhile back in the loyalty discussion about coaches remaining loyal to players. Nothing about college athletics bothers me more than when a coach recruits a player, has them commit, then for whatever reason pushes them aside and tells them to go somewhere else. This is prior to playing for the team.
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  4. #84
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    The word on the street was that Cianfarano couldn't get into WI academically (where she had originally committed to), so she ended up @ Q.....just the word on the street as to why she decommitted from UW and went to Q.
    And if that was the case, maybe 4 years at Quinnipiac made her a more committed student and she proved those at this "BIG3" school to be wrong.
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Since this is a transfer thread, what's up with Agnew transferring to BC ??

  6. #86
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by slapshot willy View Post
    Since this is a transfer thread, what's up with Agnew transferring to BC ??
    IMO, that is a transfer that makes sense. I'm sure that her two seasons at Minnesota didn't go the way that she had envisioned, so a new start in different surroundings is likely a good choice. She still appears to be on her country's national team radar despite never emerging as a top-line player for the Gophers, so if she has post-NCAA dreams, another route might be a better way to reach them.

    I agree with what others have said about an advanced degree from a different institution often being viewed as better than two degrees from the same school; so why don't we see more transfers from players who have earned their degree? One factor is that they typically only have one year of eligibility left, so they may not see a benefit in uprooting their hockey careers for one season. The other does hinge on loyalty, but I think it is more loyalty to teammates than the program. The student/athlete has completed a commitment to the program; she came, and she earned a degree. If her studies were over, she would be done playing. So that is a clean break. I believe that the majority of the players have come to view their teammates as a second family, and they would feel strangely about switching families after sharing so much.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    You two guys need to get a room (or at least start a separate thread for just the two of you)! Your love-hate relationship reminds me too much of a couple of my former teammates....not a good situation. Not to mention that your posts are now far too long (long-winded) to bother reading fully or at all anymore.
    HaHa. Not spot on, but you definitely make some good points.

    1. Years ago I got off on the wrong foot with Eeyore, and there's never been anything remotely resembling "love."

    2. But more importantly, I hope it never rises to the level of "hate." This latest round proves anew that I can't productively connect with him -- no matter how much effort I put into it. And yet, he loves hockey. Of that I have no doubt. He's just a brother from a different planet.

    3. You're right to suggest that Eeyore & I would be terrible as teammates. The mutual frustration would be a locker room cancer.

    4. You're also correct on the long-winded thing. Redoubling one's efforts with Eeyore is futile. And futility is a failing. I'll do better.

  8. #88
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ARM View Post
    ...I agree with what others have said about an advanced degree from a different institution often being viewed as better than two degrees from the same school; so why don't we see more transfers from players who have earned their degree? One factor is that they typically only have one year of eligibility left, so they may not see a benefit in uprooting their hockey careers for one season. The other does hinge on loyalty, but I think it is more loyalty to teammates than the program. The student/athlete has completed a commitment to the program; she came, and she earned a degree. If her studies were over, she would be done playing. So that is a clean break. I believe that the majority of the players have come to view their teammates as a second family, and they would feel strangely about switching families after sharing so much.
    I agree completely. And your version is admirably concise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    I agree completely. And your version is admirably concise.
    Sorry but teammates are like hometown friends, eventually some make the decision to leave them. Life goes on. Both girls lived up to their commitments and have moved on for whatever reason. Itís their business. All the best to both of them.

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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by vicb View Post
    And if that was the case, maybe 4 years at Quinnipiac made her a more committed student and she proved those at this "BIG3" school to be wrong.
    other word on the street that not all of this year had to do with injury.

  11. #91
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
    Sorry but teammates are like hometown friends, eventually some make the decision to leave them. Life goes on.
    While true, I still say ARM's description is spot on. Of course there are exceptions. But numerically, that's what they are -- exceptions.

    Both girls lived up to their commitments and have moved on for whatever reason. Itís their business. All the best to both of them.
    Agreed on all three counts. I have no interest in second guessing the individual decisions.

    People seem to think that because my favorite team was directly affected, I'm incapable of having an objective opinion on the rules and values involved. As someone who prides himself on being a fan of the sport as a whole, that reaction stings. But as you say, life goes on.

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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    You should probably stop to think about what it is that you want to say before plunging in.
    In other words, I'm not properly preparing myself for litigation. Or war.

    You comment goes a long way towards explaining why the gulf between us can't be bridged. On my planet, you participate on a national sports board to gain information from elsewhere. To listen to other points of view. And to contribute as able. It's not litigation; it's the hot stove league.

    In the warming house, having an open mind is a virtue, not a vice. No one is an expert on every team or every rule in the book. Other posters can fill in the gaps. OK, many times the conversation serves only to sharpen one's own viewpoint. But it's more than possible to learn something new, and modify one's views. Letting your thinking evolve is a strength. Setting aside a preliminary thought that didn't stand up to scrutiny is not an indictable offense.

    As far as I can tell, you go into every conversation with a battle plan, and a firm commitment not to budge an inch on any point. For those who want to brainstorm, that posture is beyond counter-productive.

    I'm baffled by your planet. Sure, I'll fight back when attacked. But it's not exactly fun. For me, being in a constant state of war constitutes an unwanted burden, not a hobby.

  13. #93
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    I'm baffled by your planet. Sure, I'll fight back when attacked. But it's not exactly fun. For me, being in a constant state of war constitutes an unwanted burden, not a hobby.
    I am equally baffled by your position that thinking about what one is writing in order to convey what one means is somehow oppressive. That's not having a battle plan; it's understanding the very basics of communication.

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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    I am equally baffled by your position that thinking about what one is writing in order to convey what one means is somehow oppressive. That's not having a battle plan; it's understanding the very basics of communication.
    And with one final rejoinder, this thread comes to a satisfying conclusion. Best to end a little too soon than a little late -- leave them wanting more. Thanks everyone for participating!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leather helmet View Post
    And with one final rejoinder, this thread comes to a satisfying conclusion. Best to end a little too soon than a little late -- leave them wanting more. Thanks everyone for participating!
    Lol!!!!!

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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Leather helmet View Post
    And with one final rejoinder, this thread comes to a satisfying conclusion. Best to end a little too soon than a little late -- leave them wanting more. Thanks everyone for participating!
    No no no no....It can't end like this, reminds me of the end of end of a Monty Python movie I rather enjoy. Please carry on.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 WE WANT MORE!
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    No no no no....It can't end like this, reminds me of the end of end of a Monty Python movie I rather enjoy. Please carry on.
    "Bring out your dead!"

  18. #98
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    "Bring out your dead!"
    It sure read like someone was being oppressed, that is for sure.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 WE WANT MORE!
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

  19. #99
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy A View Post
    It sure read like someone was being oppressed, that is for sure.
    Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?

    There are some who call me...Tim.

  20. #100
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    Re: Transfers thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Leather helmet View Post
    Who are you who can summon fire without flint or tinder?

    There are some who call me...Tim.
    HA! You have cracked the code to my cerebral greatness! Controlling all the fire capabilities is a challenge at times, it's also an asset when camping.
    Wisconsin Hockey: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10 WE WANT MORE!
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    Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
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    Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
    "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
    Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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