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Thread: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

  1. #981
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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by Deutsche Gopher Fan View Post
    Headline from WaPo:

    Only a quarter of white evangelical Protestants think the U.S. has a responsibility to accept refugees.

    The best people.
    "For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me"- Matthew 25:35.
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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Only time and talent will tell



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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    I don't know who or what Evangelicals worship, but it's not Jesus.
    Keep going with Matthew 25. The ending is a doozy.

    Christians tend to only be Christian when it’s convenient.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    Christians tend to only be Christian when it’s convenient.
    Not all, but most of them, yes.
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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    The implication of your question is that the administration or Trump has violated some sort of open meeting or sunshine law. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened because the media would be in court so fast it would make our heads spin, were that the case.

    Regarding open meeting laws, personally I am strongly in favor of them and I think they should be aggressively enforced.

    Notwithstanding the way you phrased your question, I assume you are asking about Trump's practice of trying to punish individual reporters or news institutions who Trump believes have been unfair to him. The punishment usually takes the form of "banning" them from a campaign rally, a news conference, etc... If that's not what you are talking about, then you'll have to be more specific.

    With regard to Trump's attempts to "punish" these reporters/newspapers, I have three thoughts.

    First, restricting access to those types of events is not illegal. If he wants to hold a press conference in his bathroom at 2 a.m. and invite only reporters from the New York Post and Der Spiegel, he's legally free to do so.

    Second, his actions are incredibly naive and stupid, even by Trump standards. Pretty much anyone over the age of 8 would understand they won't work. Not only have his "bannings" failed to bring the press into line, they've almost certainly had the opposite effect.

    Which leads me to my final point. His actions at trying to discipline reporters or newspapers has probably had a far more beneficial, rather than harmful, effect on this country than we realize. I'd rather have an angry pitbull of a press, beaten and disciplined by an unstable executive, than the collection of coddled, fat and lazy poodles we've been saddled with, happy to regurgitate everything the White House spoon feeds them.

    I believe when historians look back on this time period a hundred years from now, part of what will be written is about the reawakening of the American Press. An unhinged presidency coupled with new and exciting forms of publishing and reporting provide pretty good ingredients for a new era of reporting.
    And yet his constant attacks on the press do more damage by turning the public against them.

    When the press loses credibility, they can be as angry as they want. It won’t matter if they’ve been neutered. Trump continues to treat the NYT and WaPo as we should view RT, Volkischer, or anything owned by the Murdochs.

    And before you reply saying the press did this to themselves, you might be right to an extent. But a sitting president doing what he’s doing is far more damaging and dangerous than anything else I’ve ever seen in my lifetime.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    The implication of your question is that the administration or Trump has violated some sort of open meeting or sunshine law. I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened because the media would be in court so fast it would make our heads spin, were that the case.

    .

    Maybe they will. Not that anything will come of it with this administration. And yes, open meeting laws. While you're busy making excuses for Trump, why don't you pay attention to what's actually going on, Re: EPA meetings about the chemicals in our water, and the report they tried to suppress because it would "be a PR nightmare".


    If it were any democrat doing this, you'd be screaming from the top of the hills, just as Sic does whenever it's a Democrat.


    When not, you're jhust another Republican saying "I am deeply troubled by these actions, But I wouldn't worry about them until people start being arrested".
    Last edited by rufus; 05-25-2018 at 08:37 AM.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post

    Deficits don't matter.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Deficits don't matter.
    Correction- they don’t matter when an R is in the White House. They seemed to matter a lot to many in the eight years prior for some reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    If the entire horn of Africa wants entry into the USA, that's a bit much. If you're talking a few thousand, that's doable.
    Here's where I struggle with that. For ~ 150 years (and hundreds more before that as colonies), we had no immigration laws. And the impetus for the first immigration laws was racism. And racism is still the impetus for most immigration laws today.

    My ancestors weren't subject to a quota or lottery or anything, and I'd bet yours weren't either. Can you really tell me with a straight face that the Christian thing to do is pull the ladder up behind you and tell refugees "sorry, but we got here first"?

    The U.S.'s best border security measures are the two massive oceans between us and the majority of the world. If a refugee is willing to pack up and use their life savings to get on a plane or ship to the new world, why in the hell would you turn them away?
    Last edited by unofan; 05-25-2018 at 08:46 AM.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Far as I'm concerned if you can get here you can come in. We'll figure it out.

    The whole point of America is that it's a set of values, not a people. America is the sanctuary of the world for those who believe in the Bill of Rights and the Declaration and our principles. If you believe in those things and you were born in Kenya, you're an American. And if you don't believe in those things and you were born in Kentucky, then you're not.
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-25-2018 at 08:47 AM.
    It's a book of our true stories
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    We're coming rougher every time

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Maybe they will. Not that anything will come of it with this administration. And yes, open meeting laws. While you're busy making excuses for Trump, why don't you pay attention to what's actually going on, Re: EPA meetings about the chemicals in our water, and the report they tried to suppress because it would "be a PR nightmare".


    If it were any democrat doing this, you'd be screaming from the top of the hills, just as Sic does whenever it's a Democrat.


    When not, you're jhust another Republican saying "I am deeply troubled by these actions, But I wouldn't worry about them until people start being arrested".
    I've been posting on this Board since 1997. If I've made posts like you suggest, please feel free to bring them forward.

    As for the EPA, if I'm recalling the same event, this was some sort of public event where reps from the EPA were giving a report on drinking water safety? There was some dispute over a couple of reporters getting in. The EPA claimed there was limited space but the event was telecast so they could watch in a different room. The media said there was plenty of room.

    Is this the same event?

    Assuming that's the case, and from the limited amount that I know about it, it sounds like it was basically an elongated press conference in which speakers spoke on something clearly of public interest.

    My guess is it's not something covered under any federal open meeting laws, since the EPA isn't actually taking any agency action at this event. That said, sure, we should be critical of the EPA. If they have bad information to tell the public, but announce it in an empty room, that's on them. Its basically a failure on their part to keep the public informed, although apparently there were other reporters there.

    The fact that there were other reporters there, by the way, calls into question the notion that the EPA banned these reporters because they were trying to hide something from the public. If ten reporters show up and you want to keep bad news from the public, do you only throw two out of the room?
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Far as I'm concerned if you can get here you can come in. We'll figure it out.

    The whole point of America is that it's a set of values, not a people. America is the sanctuary of the world for those who believe in the Bill of Rights and the Declaration and our principles. If you believe in those things and you were born in Kenya, you're an American. And if you don't believe in those things and you were born in Kentucky, then you're not.
    Exactly. I've posted it before, and I'll continue to post it. We should basically have open borders. If you want to come here, great. You have to abide by our laws, but welcome. If you want an actual say in how we run things, however, you need to go through the process of becoming a citizen.

    Immigration and Emigration isn't done with malice or criminal intent. It's a basic instinct of all living things to find better food, shelter, mating and a safe place to live.
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Not to mention that if you dragged yourself and your children through 3000 miles of desert, desperados, and dirty cops to bring them here for a new life, I want you on my team. Those are the people with the heart and the cojones to be the worthy successors of Ben Franklin, Frederick Douglass, Andrew Carnegie, and Barack Obama.

    My proposal is we kick everybody out after 3 generations. You get that much time to contribute to building this experiment and make your fortune. Then you have to go someplace else and export The Mindset. America is a forge, not a hammock.

    It's a book of our true stories
    True stories that can't be denied
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    We're coming rougher every time
    Last edited by Kepler; 05-25-2018 at 09:19 AM.
    It's a book of our true stories
    True stories that can't be denied
    It's more than true it actually happened
    We're coming rougher every time

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I've been posting on this Board since 1997. If I've made posts like you suggest, please feel free to bring them forward.
    You yourself said just yesterday that you aren't worried about anything this president does until he starts rounding up and arresting people.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post

    I believe when historians look back on this time period a hundred years from now, part of what will be written is about the reawakening of the American Press. An unhinged presidency coupled with new and exciting forms of publishing and reporting provide pretty good ingredients for a new era of reporting.
    Hopefully this is how it shakes out, and a hundred years from now those historians will be around to point it out.

    The problem though, is trump is just a symptom of the greater disease. trump isn't president by accident. He is president because a sizable portion of this country believe the crap he says. I think it is very dangerous to look at this as just a bump in our electoral politics and as bad as trump is, he's just another in a string of mediocre or bad presidents. After all, we've been saddled with far more mediocre and bad presidents than we've elected great ones, right? But no, that is not the issue, at least to me.

    Today I see the nation at a tipping point. The triumph of trump wasn't his election, it's what his election says about us. That the other two branches of our government have made no discernible effort (and I am talking about the party in the majority) to act as a real and true check on the ugliness coming out of the White House is further proof to me that this is no ordinary time (to borrow a Doris Kearns Goodwin book title) I believe that those who are seeing this as just another bad president hiding behind the claims of a political witchhunt are at best wildly mistaken.

    What is happening in the trump White House is NOT the same as happened in Nixon's, or Reagan's, or Clinton's. We've seen the ground shift greatly in the American public. When Clinton was accused of his misdeeds, even the vast majority of his supporters believed he was a dog who couldn't keep it in his pants. I voted for him in 1996 and I knew early on the reporting was probably largely correct when it came to some of this, probably most of it. trump supporters don't believe ANY of the stuff reported about him is true. THAT'S the danger we face. That's the difference between all of the other modern presidents roiled in scandal and the current one.

    I've said since the first time I posted here that Clinton was able to blow the election and pave the way for a trump presidency that trump was not the issue. The issue is an electorate that could vote for him. As bad as trump is, I still believe that is the issue.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    You yourself said just yesterday that you aren't worried about anything this president does until he starts rounding up and arresting people.
    Reading comprehension isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?
    That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by rufus View Post
    Maybe they will. Not that anything will come of it with this administration. And yes, open meeting laws. While you're busy making excuses for Trump, why don't you pay attention to what's actually going on, Re: EPA meetings about the chemicals in our water, and the report they tried to suppress because it would "be a PR nightmare".
    Speaking of, the EPA flat out refused to allow officials (Federal or State) from Flint, Michigan (who have been directly involved in the testing and cleanup) into a conference the EPA hosted recently to discuss, get this, THE WATER QUALITY AND CONTAMINATION IN FLINT MICHIGAN.

    *edit* Here's the links:
    https://earther.com/the-epa-barred-flints-representative-from-attending-its-1826272996
    At a summit about reducing toxic chemicals in drinking water, the agency reportedly barred staff from Rep. Dan Kildee’s (D-Michigan) district from entering.

    Kildee’s district includes Flint, which has been mired in the biggest toxic water scandal in the country for years.

    Excluding staff from a district that knows firsthand about the pain of poisoned water and government mismanagement makes absolutely no sense. What’s more, Kildee’s district is home to a number of sites contaminated with per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS) according to the Environmental Working Group. PFAS, which include chemicals linked to cancer and other health problems, are what this summit was about.
    According to Emily Holden, a Politico reporter who was also barred from the event, Wednesday’s panels were supposed to be “for government only.”
    ...
    And the whole summit paid for with public money.

    And yes, this is the same summit that saw reporters from CNN, E&E News, and the AP barred on Tuesday. An AP reporter had security guards grab her by the shoulders and shove her “forcibly out of the EPA building.” On Wednesday, Holden along with two other journalists were again turned away with no explanation. This isn’t the first time EPA has barred reporters from events, either.
    Last edited by aparch; 05-25-2018 at 09:40 AM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    I think it is very dangerous to look at this as just a bump in our electoral politics and as bad as trump is, he's just another in a string of mediocre or bad presidents. After all, we've been saddled with far more mediocre and bad presidents than we've elected great ones, right?
    In late summer 2000, as the Bush-Gore race was nearing the end, my family gathered to celebrate my maternal grandfather's 101st birthday. One of my nephews, contemplating what it meant to be 101 years of age, made a statement to the effect, "Wow, 101 years old. You've probably had a chance to vote for a lot of Presidents, huh?"

    My grandfather, a man of few words, simply responded, "not a lot of good ones in the bunch."

    Still brings a smile to my face.
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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."


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    Re: POTUS 45.33: ""We're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way."

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    Reading comprehension isn't exactly your strong suit, is it?
    That's what you said. As long as he isn't flagrantly and willfully breaking the law outright, you're perfectly ok with him using his authority to nibble around the edges and influence our institutions, until he starts throwing people in jail. Then you might have a quibble.


    You said it, own it.
    What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

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