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Thread: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Silent

  1. #1
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    Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Silent

    and Fetisov offers a few words...

    https://www.sott.net/article/384265-...-he-made-it-up
    Last edited by Blackbeard; 05-01-2018 at 10:46 AM.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Uhm, that's not at all what the CAS said. It held that there was significant evidence that the doping program existed, though it didn't rule on it one way or the other, because that was beyond the scope of the hearing. All it said was that, despite the evidence that the program as a whole did exist, there was insufficient evidence to link the individual athletes to it.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    Uhm, that's not at all what the CAS said. It held that there was significant evidence that the doping program existed,
    Held?

    Based on rumour and hearsay? And on the testimony of four individuals who shall remain nameless? How convenient.

    I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy...

    What a disgrace.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    Held?

    Based on rumour and hearsay? And on the testimony of four individuals who shall remain nameless? How convenient.

    I know a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy...

    What a disgrace.
    The article you posted in the original engages in a dishonest bait and switch, and you've fallen for it completely. When it quotes the CAS as saying, ". . . bare assertion which is uncorroborated by any contemporaneous documentary evidence," it wants you to think that this refers to Rodchenkov's assertions about the existence of the program, when it is a much narrower statement, namely that Rodchenkov cannot link a particular individual, Alexander Legkov, to that program. That happens again with Richard McLaren. When the deputy chairman of the Duma, Igor Lebedev says, "Rodchenkov lied about doping in our country, which was to be proved," he is the one that is lying, because that was never what this hearing was about.

    The rumor and hearsay and four anonymous witnesses you are referring to have nothing whatsoever to do with the evidence of the existence of the program, which is much greater than that. You've fallen for the output of a dishonest propaganda page.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    The article you posted in the original engages in a dishonest bait and switch, and you've fallen for it completely. When it quotes the CAS as saying, ". . . bare assertion which is uncorroborated by any contemporaneous documentary evidence," it wants you to think that this refers to Rodchenkov's assertions about the existence of the program, when it is a much narrower statement, namely that Rodchenkov cannot link a particular individual, Alexander Legkov, to that program. That happens again with Richard McLaren. When the deputy chairman of the Duma, Igor Lebedev says, "Rodchenkov lied about doping in our country, which was to be proved," he is the one that is lying, because that was never what this hearing was about.

    The rumor and hearsay and four anonymous witnesses you are referring to have nothing whatsoever to do with the evidence of the existence of the program, which is much greater than that. You've fallen for the output of a dishonest propaganda page.
    The Russian propaganda machine sure knows how to spin anything in their favor.
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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    When it quotes the CAS as saying, ". . . bare assertion which is uncorroborated by any contemporaneous documentary evidence," it wants you to think that this refers to Rodchenkov's assertions about the existence of the program, when it is a much narrower statement, namely that Rodchenkov cannot link a particular individual, Alexander Legkov, to that program.
    Well, if as you say, it wanted me to think that this refers to Rodchenkov's assertions about the existence of a program...it failed. I did not think that. I took it to mean exactly what it says, ie: relating to Alexander Legkov, as you stated. In other words, they were unsubstantiated claims made by Rodchenkov. However, at the same time the article states that 28 athletes were reinstated and that Rodchenkov's previous "testimony played a key part in the country's Olympic bans". That sentence certainly implies a connection between Rodchenkov's claims and the banning of many other athletes. That doesn't do anything for Rodchenkov's credibility.

    What was of further interest is the article did not state exactly who alleged that athletes were using Rodchenkov's "Duchess Cocktail"... "a powerful mix of PEDs allegedly distributed to a list of Russian athletes. Many were later excluded from competing on the basis of the Duchess list." If that's the case what a scam that was because not only did Rodchenkov have no proof to offer that anyone ever used his cocktail but he also admitted "that no test of the effectiveness of the Duchess cocktail was ever conducted, and when asked about its exact make-up, which has been a matter of some contention, he "stated that he needed five minutes to explain, and therefore refrained from doing so." "


    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    That happens again with Richard McLaren. When the deputy chairman of the Duma, Igor Lebedev says, "Rodchenkov lied about doping in our country, which was to be proved," he is the one that is lying, because that was never what this hearing was about.
    You can't state unequivocally that he was lying. He may have been and he may have been stating the truth. Just because it may appear that his comment referred to something not within the purview of the hearing doesn't necessarily mean that he was lying. And maybe he was referring to Legkov specifically, in which case, it's pertinent and, where's the lie? Maybe he was referring to the broader issue beyond just Legkov in which case many others were in the same or similar boat as Legkov because they were banned as well...and Rodchenkov had an influential role in causing that to happen. If that is what Lebedev was referring to, again, where's the lie...28 athletes were reinstated. He could have been more specific but it seems to me that that is about as much as can be said about that comment. I think you are reading too much into it.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by vicb View Post
    The Russian propaganda machine sure knows how to spin anything in their favor.
    Not saying that this is not correct but it's like the MSM...completely one sided. I'd imagine that you've noticed the US propaganda machine operating on all cylinders in the last 20 years or more. Compared to them the Russians look like choir boys. The Russians are always interested in facts thinking that everyone else plays by those respectable and logical rules. The US only points out facts when it serves their agenda, which is rarely. The rest of the time the facts are completely ignored and substituted with complete fabrications their thinking being that most people are too stupid to see through it and will foolishly jump on board with their pom poms. Fortunately, many, and a growing number of US citizens have realized that this is the case. A good thing, that. A very good thing.

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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbeard View Post
    Not saying that this is not correct but it's like the MSM...completely one sided. I'd imagine that you've noticed the US propaganda machine operating on all cylinders in the last 20 years or more. Compared to them the Russians look like choir boys. The Russians are always interested in facts thinking that everyone else plays by those respectable and logical rules. The US only points out facts when it serves their agenda, which is rarely. The rest of the time the facts are completely ignored and substituted with complete fabrications their thinking being that most people are too stupid to see through it and will foolishly jump on board with their pom poms. Fortunately, many, and a growing number of US citizens have realized that this is the case. A good thing, that. A very good thing.
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    Re: Russian Doping Whistleblower - Made Up The Story...and Surprise! Western Media Si

    "Since these claims have surfaced we have tried to play by the rules against those without rules."

    Perhaps something was lost in translation, but if that is an accurate characterization of what was said it's pretty much an admission that prior to the allegations they didn't feel the need to "try and play by the rules."

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