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Thread: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

  1. #81
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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHole12 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong... but doesn't the success of the entire conference vs OOC opponents carry some weight in the PWR?
    So, had other Hockey East teams had more success OOC, BC'S wins vs those successful teams would have further helped BC's rating?
    Yes. That's where the "opponents' winning percentage" and "opponents' opponents' winning percentage" portions of the RPI come into play. The latter criteria - how good the teams were that your scheduled opponents played - is even the majority (54%) component of the RPI.

    Hockey East had a very down year OOC; as a whole they were .500, but that included a dismal 0-10-1 against the B1G and 7-14-1 against the NCHC. Other teams in Hockey East doing a bit better out of conference would have helped BC's case, certainly, but considering the 13-16 seeds in the tournament were all autobids, maybe not that much. Honestly, BC just needed to win two more games over the course of the year - pretty much any two losses flipped to wins gets them above 12th in the PWR, out of conference or not. No one single game does it, though.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Middle Street View Post

    If you're saying any team with a share of a RS title or tournament win should make it, then you are at risk of having more than 16 teams qualify (even if it's highly unlikely).
    have a play in game!!! worked out ok in 1978
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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Yes. That's where the "opponents' winning percentage" and "opponents' opponents' winning percentage" portions of the RPI come into play. The latter criteria - how good the teams were that your scheduled opponents played - is even the majority (54%) component of the RPI.

    Hockey East had a very down year OOC; as a whole they were .500, but that included a dismal 0-10-1 against the B1G and 7-14-1 against the NCHC. Other teams in Hockey East doing a bit better out of conference would have helped BC's case, certainly, but considering the 13-16 seeds in the tournament were all autobids, maybe not that much. Honestly, BC just needed to win two more games over the course of the year - pretty much any two losses flipped to wins gets them above 12th in the PWR, out of conference or not. No one single game does it, though.
    Thank you tape.
    Hope this help you understand a little better freedomfighter.
    PWR may not be perfect but it works well and is not biased.
    Last edited by FiveHole12; 04-10-2018 at 07:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Middle Street View Post
    BC finished 3rd in HE last season. They wouldn’t have been “next in line”.
    They were in a 3 way tie for 1st .. check pts. # 4 and #5 went

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    Quote Originally Posted by walrus655321 View Post
    Northeastern beat BC in an OOC game
    Thats Beanpot. Look at other OOC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
    Some serious sour grapes on this thread. Two things I want to say with absolute certainty as a BC fan:

    - BC absolutely did not deserve to make the tournament.
    - BC absolutely would have been sent home early.

    Let me add a third. It IS absolutely stupid and incomprehensible to cite conference standings (a random, arbitrary subset of the entire season upon which you are judged) when discussing who should and should not be in the national tournament. I would assert that one doing so is likely the first in their family to be able to walk upright.
    The subset is most of the season. And in the latter part when teams gain experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveHole12 View Post
    Thank you tape.
    Hope this help you understand a little better freedomfighter.
    PWR may not be perfect but it works well and is not biased.
    Thanks but helps my point that OOC counts more. But Thanx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Middle Street View Post
    I understand this, but if you're awarding an auto bid for the RS champion, then there must be a tiebreaker correct? If yes, then BC would not have qualified for that auto bid.

    If you're saying any team with a share of a RS title or tournament win should make it, then you are at risk of having more than 16 teams qualify (even if it's highly unlikely).

    If your response is to use something like PWR in that circumstance to choose which teams should qualify, then what will you say if that team left out ends up being BC??
    Leader NOT over autobid but over lower conference ranked teams.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    EVERYONE... It is really difficult for me to follow how the reply and threads word on my iPad. So politely excuse me for duplicates. I am a 67 year old BC who has seen a lot of hockey over time. And yes I find it difficult to follow how RPI works at times...but that doesn’t require some of you to be abusive to what you don’t agree with.

    I do find it not equitable to finish on top of league twice and get passed over for teams that finished lower in the same league or have another team with a LOSING conference record go instead. THAT IS NOT STUPID OR INCOMPREHENSIBLE TO QUESTION THE SYSTEM.

    Thank you for those who politely disagreed and explain why. Lack of civil discourse is what the USA is suffering from.
    You’re the one who came in here deciding to up end the natural order. However I will bend to your ability to get through traffic to still be with us today.

    Now, plain fact, your team went 2-8-3 in non-conf... 2 of those was in the playoffs against Merrimack. Less the two beanpot losses (even though that was Harvard) puts you at 0-6-3.

    That well neutralizes your 6 point lead on third place. Also, getting a share of a title in a previous year is nonsense.

    Guess what, these things happen in all the other sports that aren’t basketball. It only works that way in basketball because the game better expresses differential in ability. Soccer, baseball, they all have same or similar issues.

    And when else are you going to show you’re any good against the rest of the nation. I mean, a late season non conf tilt would be interesting but it isn’t going to happen.

    Fact is, they played like crap when it counted. My team sucked all year. It happens. It’s hard to be “equitable” when every year seven teams finishes with a 22-16 record each year. Ok, so it looks weird not to send what one could think of as a standard bearer but you didn’t meet that standard. You did excellent in one and failed the other. Frankly if league play were everything then Atlantic hockey has been getting the raw deal... but we know that’s not true. If they go 30-7 but lose in the semis they just had a nice year and don’t play in the NCAAs.

    Frankly, carping about the math when it’s the only way we have to figure things out other than “some guy likes what he saw” is annoying. I’ve been in the “they’ll turn it around tomorrow” thing with my team all season. The last time they missed it was the same problem... got good too late, not enough.

    You didn’t prove yourself to be better. Thems the breaks, kid. Sure the optics are a little odd, but that’s on you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    They were in a 3 way tie for 1st .. check pts. # 4 and #5 went
    Now you’re just being an *****hole.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    Look back carefully. BC was in a 3 way tie for 1st...check the points. #4 and #5 went.
    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    They were in a 3 way tie for 1st .. check pts. # 4 and #5 went
    At first I thought I was in a time loop, but you really are just repeating yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Middle Street View Post
    Now you’re just being an *****hole.
    Could not find my posting to you. Sorry.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    The format of posting of Fan form is hard to get used to. Not like Facebook. I reply and go back and do not see my answer. Then it later appears in an answer to the person who is “yellowed” with my reply below. Hence “many postings “ of same conversations with one person. Just a confusing system for me. Never saw anything like it before. SORRY FOR REPEATS!

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    SORRY FOR REPEATS!
    Simple solution: just stop posting. Please stop posting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UncleRay View Post
    Simple solution: just stop posting. Please stop posting.
    Just don’t answer.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    Just don’t answer.
    Can you please share with us which 16 teams should have actually made the tournament this year and last year, thanks in advance.

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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Quote Originally Posted by freedomfighter View Post
    The format of posting of Fan form is hard to get used to. Not like Facebook. I reply and go back and do not see my answer. Then it later appears in an answer to the person who is “yellowed” with my reply below. Hence “many postings “ of same conversations with one person. Just a confusing system for me. Never saw anything like it before. SORRY FOR REPEATS!
    Regardless of you getting confused, every time you post that BC should have made the NCAA tournament the past two seasons there are a dozen or more replies that clearly state why they didn't make the tournament, which you either don't read, don't understand, or don't like the answer, because you just post the same complaint again and again. If you truly believe the regular season champions deserves an automatic bid you need to either:

    1. Contact Hockey East and get the league to award their automatic bid to the regular season champion and not the tournament champion; or
    2. Contact the NCAA and get them to change how autobids are awarded, so regular season champions get one if they don't win their league tournament.

    I wish you well in your efforts.

    Sean
    Last edited by Sean Pickett; 04-13-2018 at 04:49 PM.

  18. #98
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    Re: NonConference games matter more than conference ones..RPI needs changes

    Honestly: it’s fine.

    Yeah, we can quibble over RPI vs KRACH vs whatever, but the system does what it needs to do: make it about wins and losses.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agganis View Post
    Can you please share with us which 16 teams should have actually made the tournament this year and last year, thanks in advance.
    Last year, the BU super duper team should have gotten two bids.

  20. #100
    2009 NCAA Champions Sean Pickett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Last year, the BU super duper team should have gotten two bids.
    Jerk.

    Sean

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