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WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conference

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  • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

    Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
    From what I saw looking at attendance, it seems pretty important to compare Friday to Friday/Saturday to Saturday, etc. It's a complicated thing, not to menion comparing 2009 to 2015 is silly. How are those numbers compared to the season average of the given year?
    Minnesota attendance pretty consistently runs 1200-1600 above the season average. In most years, Wisconsin was basically an average draw. Denver was average to below average. Essentially, MN raises the average so that most teams fall below it. I should do the median, but I'm already killing my work productivity today.

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    • Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
      i am not arguing how the PWR works... and its not perfect but its the same 'math' for everyone, so its fair enough. its biggest fault is the fact that not enough inter-conference games are played.

      my reason to compare russell to joe and/or mel is to bring up the fact of what being in a stronger conference can mean. i suffered tons through russell... but PWR-wise, it was not THAT BAD besides the last three seasons.

      so maybe i should pose this in a question;

      should we just be quiet and keep things as they are; what got us in the NCAA the last two seasons, hardware included, was not the PWR...

      besides re-arranging conferences, i think creating two regions (creating more NC opportunities) and playing the likes of UMD, SCCU, MN, and UW would do wonders...
      The problem with creating more NC slots is that you’ll be very fortunate if, as a league, if you get 1/3 of those games on home ice.
      "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

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      • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

        Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
        The problem with creating more NC slots is that you’ll be very fortunate if, as a league, if you get 1/3 of those games on home ice.
        Yep. .. and if you play 6 non con games and lose 5 it doesn't matter who you play.
        MTU: Three time NCAA champions.

        It never get's easier, you just go faster. -Greg Lemond

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        • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

          Originally posted by davyd83 View Post
          The problem with creating more NC slots is that you’ll be very fortunate if, as a league, if you get 1/3 of those games on home ice.
          This would be so easy for the NCAA to remedy. Require that all schedules be 50/50 home/road.
          My guy is a hard-nosed hockey player who is not afraid to crash the net. Your guy is a goon who runs the goalie.

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          • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

            Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
            I looked back to see if indifference to Wisconsin is just recent, or if we got more amped for those games than I'm remembering. For comparison, attendance the last 5 times MN has come to Mankato:4612, 5134, 4854, 5156, 5048. Last 5 Wisconsin games in Mankato: 4357, 3656, 4051, 3468, 3826. So, the largest Wisconsin crowd was smaller than the smallest Gopher crowd.
            Admittedly, these aren't totally apples to apples - The 2 most recent Gopher games were after their departure from the WCHA, and the oldest Wisconsin game goes back to 2009, when we weren't good. But the last 2 Wisconsin games, both under 4000 in attendance, were in Coach Hastings' first year, when we were very competitive. So I think my recollection of Wisco not being a hot ticket is pretty accurate.
            It wasn't a hot ticket, but strangely enough they were put in the "premium ticket" pricing category along with the Gophers and UND.
            Mess with the bull, you get the horns.

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            • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

              Originally posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
              Minnesota attendance pretty consistently runs 1200-1600 above the season average. In most years, Wisconsin was basically an average draw. Denver was average to below average. Essentially, MN raises the average so that most teams fall below it. I should do the median, but I'm already killing my work productivity today.
              MN travels very well. They had one of the larger, if not the largest oWCHA fan contingents in Houghton in the early 00's. I don't remember WisconSIN traveling that well.

              We are also talking about an in-state, hockey school with only a 2 hour drive vs a 4.5 hour drive hockey is a 3rd sport school. WisconSIN has great home hockey attendance, but outside of Madison, I have yet to see their traveling support. (excluding games in Minneapolis) One would assume they would travel similar to UND and U of M.

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              • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post
                MN travels very well. They had one of the larger, if not the largest oWCHA fan contingents in Houghton in the early 00's. I don't remember WisconSIN traveling that well.

                We are also talking about an in-state, hockey school with only a 2 hour drive vs a 4.5 hour drive hockey is a 3rd sport school. WisconSIN has great home hockey attendance, but outside of Madison, I have yet to see their traveling support. (excluding games in Minneapolis) One would assume they would travel similar to UND and U of M.
                I don't know what the methodology would be to look at this, but I really don't think there's much of a "national footprint" or "travels well" designation for any college hockey school, outside of what LHusky mentions above (Large state school traveling to smaller in-state rivals). In college football, Alabama or Notre Dame would draw well anywhere, coast to coast. Same with Duke or UNC in basketball. In some ways, that's a detriment for college hockey, but on the other hand, it's very liberating in scheduling. A Big school from another state, or an NCHC/HEA school wants to play hardball on the negotiations, just move on to someone else. You're not hurting your attendance by not scheduling that team.

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                • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                  Originally posted by DrunkTrainPolka View Post
                  i am not arguing how the PWR works... and its not perfect but its the same 'math' for everyone, so its fair enough. its biggest fault is the fact that not enough inter-conference games are played.

                  my reason to compare russell to joe and/or mel is to bring up the fact of what being in a stronger conference can mean. i suffered tons through russell... but PWR-wise, it was not THAT BAD besides the last three seasons.

                  so maybe i should pose this in a question;

                  should we just be quiet and keep things as they are; what got us in the NCAA the last two seasons, hardware included, was not the PWR...

                  besides re-arranging conferences, i think creating two regions (creating more NC opportunities) and playing the likes of UMD, SCCU, MN, and UW would do wonders...
                  We have played UMD and UW last year and are slated to play them again this year.

                  Look at Miami sitting at 12-20-5 and Michigan State 12-22-2 to close 2017-2018. They are 29th and 35th in pairwise (PW) respectively. Both were clearly the bottom of their respective leagues, yet they finished around the middle of the PW mostly due to strength of conference. With a similar record in Hockey East, New Hampshire finished 10-22-6, and ended with a PW of 52. Assuming 6-7% win percentage difference between the "power conference" teams and HE is insignificant, this would lead one to believe that the strength of conference one plays in is a major component in the PW rankings.

                  Assuming similar* PW math, that would have given Tech under Russel and early Marv a significant PW boost over Joe. One important thing to note about Tech, Sertich left Tech with a respectable line-up. Russel left Merv a line-up in a worse place then what he had.

                  *PW calculations more than likely have been tweeked between the start of Russel and the start of Joe.

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                  • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                    Originally posted by MavsFan View Post
                    This would be so easy for the NCAA to remedy. Require that all schedules be 50/50 home/road.
                    NCAA mandate LOL All for the red headed step child.

                    Comment


                    • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                      Originally posted by Lost_Husky View Post

                      Assuming similar PW math, that would have given Tech under Russel and early Marv a significant PW boost over Joe. One important thing to note about Tech, Sertich left Tech with a respectable line-up. Russel left Merv a line-up in a worse place then what he had.
                      that is just plain false
                      Russell left Marc a team that was ready to succeed from day one. Me couldn’t really have asked for a bette situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.
                      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                      • Originally posted by MavsFan View Post
                        This would be so easy for the NCAA to remedy. Require that all schedules be 50/50 home/road.
                        Except that every school in the Big Ten would vote against it. That means it would only need 2 more of the “Power 5” schools to vote against it and it would be rejected. The only way to possibly push it through is for enough schools to reject 2-for-1 or 1-for-0 deals and stick to their guns for equal swaps of games.
                        "The use of common sense and logic will not be tolerated and may result in fine and/or suspension."- Western Professional Hockey League By-laws. 1999-2000.

                        Comment


                        • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                          Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                          [Merv] couldn’t really have asked for a better situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.
                          Merv 1st year expectations = Zero
                          Joe 1st year expectations = Win another championship

                          Ryan
                          Preserving Michigan Tech's Hockey History
                          https://www.johnsonsjerseys.net
                          Originally posted by geezer
                          Tech has the best of everything, even the best jersey nerd.
                          Originally posted by manurespreader
                          ...I really enjoyed listening to Ryan Johnson. He sounded intelligent.

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                          • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                            Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                            that is just plain false
                            Russell left Marc a team that was ready to succeed from day one. Me couldn’t really have asked for a bette situation to take over, especially compared to Joe.
                            Oh yes, we talk SO much about the great careers of Brett Olsen, David Johnstone, Jordan Baker, and Ryan Furne with Josh Robinson in net. In fairness he did have the Blake and Tanner class coming in. (From what I heard even a trained money could have landed Blake and Tanner at MTU as they had strong ties to MTU.)

                            Compare that to Chris Conner, Colin Murphy, Brett Engelhardt,... with Cam Ellsworth in net.

                            Just because most of us don't like Marv, current coach of the skunk bears, doesn't mean we can deny the job he did at Tech.

                            Joe walked into a much better situation than both. Granted Beef left a hole in net, the on ice leaders left, had several "no touchy no touchy" players, several holes on D, and he had to clean up the recruit list, but that is not that bad. Overall we had a good team and solid recruits and were in a much better position than we had been at in years. Joe and staff did a hell of a job. I give them a lot of credit.
                            Last edited by Lost_Husky; 06-06-2018, 01:20 PM.

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                            • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                              The NCAA has shown no interest in getting involved. The only thing that interests me at this point is that possibility of a WCHA-ECAC-AHC interlock. Shirtless and I have traded emails over getting the WCHA's PWR up across the board, and the funny thing is that you either open it way up and hope for puck luck (as previously noted ... sorry, not going to scroll back to see who, but I'll rep you in a bit!), or decrease/eliminate them. I don't think that's worked well for the WCHA or AHC, which are definitely the two leagues most in need of help. It's an interesting thought experiment to take those two conferences' NC play and replace any NCHC/B17/HEA games with WCHA/AHC games and see what happens. (You could make some estimates using KRACH as a proxy for how those teams would fare.)

                              GFM
                              Geof F. Morris
                              UAH BSE MAE 2002
                              UAHHockey.com

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                              • Re: WCHA 2018 Off-Season: Nobody's Walking Out On This Old-Fashioned Hockey Conferenc

                                Originally posted by gfmorris View Post
                                The NCAA has shown no interest in getting involved. The only thing that interests me at this point is that possibility of a WCHA-ECAC-AHC interlock. Shirtless and I have traded emails over getting the WCHA's PWR up across the board, and the funny thing is that you either open it way up and hope for puck luck (as previously noted ... sorry, not going to scroll back to see who, but I'll rep you in a bit!), or decrease/eliminate them. I don't think that's worked well for the WCHA or AHC, which are definitely the two leagues most in need of help. It's an interesting thought experiment to take those two conferences' NC play and replace any NCHC/B17/HEA games with WCHA/AHC games and see what happens. (You could make some estimates using KRACH as a proxy for how those teams would fare.)

                                GFM
                                based on what i know about the PWR and am learning, there seems to me that you could run some monte carlo type simulations and figure out what the best opportunity is... even if that means within the conference.

                                while 'a win' really solves the problem, there may be some strategy to be be had via some kind of mathematical model... hmmm... me like!

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