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POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

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  • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    No I want truthful reporting and still to this day your man crush gets a free pass.
    Maybe you should do some research on your own and see what is the truth, instead of using your preconceived brainwashed notions as an irrevocable basis. Even the person on which you're claiming I have a "man crush" suggests this.

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    • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

      Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
      So Michael Cohen's offices in NYC were raided by the FBI today.
      Yeah. The Dump Crime Family is in some deep sh-t.
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      • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
        You're excited about the government seizing attorney/client privileged material?
        So long as it's not them with ones they care about, they're completely fine with stepping on people's rights. You'd think, after "oppressive regimes", that they'd recognize this. Nope...

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        • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

          Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
          You're excited about the government seizing attorney/client privileged material?
          There's no privilege if you're breaking the law...

          Comment


          • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            I'm not a lawyer but even I know your statement makes no sense at all. Either that or the next time I shoot a guy I'm going to hand my lawyer my gun and then the police can't take it!!!
            I was just referring to this CNN story that I looked up after I saw Scooby's post. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/polit...fbi/index.html

            It mentions that "privileged" communications were seized.

            Yeah, apparently a warrant was obtained, and maybe nothing "illegal" was done.

            On the other hand, if I were someone that the government was targeting in an investigation and I had a lawyer, I'd be a little concerned about my rights if they came in and seized his files.

            I guess I'd be curious to hear UNO's take on this. I can't imagine lawyers think it's that ideal.

            I assume the government argued that Cohen somehow helped facilitate a crime, and I imagine in that setting the information is no longer privileged. But we hold pretty sacred in this country the right of individuals to legal counsel in criminal proceedings and this feels like a bit of a strong arm tactic to me.
            That community is already in the process of dissolution where each man begins to eye his neighbor as a possible enemy, where non-conformity with the accepted creed, political as well as religious, is a mark of disaffection; where denunciation, without specification or backing, takes the place of evidence; where orthodoxy chokes freedom of dissent; where faith in the eventual supremacy of reason has become so timid that we dare not enter our convictions in the open lists, to win or lose.

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            • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

              Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
              But we hold pretty sacred in this country the right of individuals to legal counsel in criminal proceedings and this feels like a bit of a strong arm tactic to me.
              Which is why they needed a warrant. But Mafia lawyers can't hide their clients' criminal evidence.

              Maybe next time don't nominate and elect an actual criminal to the US Presidency? Just a thought.

              It is kinda cool, though, hearing the right declare their support for due process and the rights of the accused for the first time in, well, ever. So that's healthy anyway.
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              • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                I was just referring to this CNN story that I looked up after I saw Scooby's post. https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/09/polit...fbi/index.html

                It mentions that "privileged" communications were seized.

                Yeah, apparently a warrant was obtained, and maybe nothing "illegal" was done.

                On the other hand, if I were someone that the government was targeting in an investigation and I had a lawyer, I'd be a little concerned about my rights if they came in and seized his files.

                I guess I'd be curious to hear UNO's take on this. I can't imagine lawyers think it's that ideal.

                I assume the government argued that Cohen somehow helped facilitate a crime, and I imagine in that setting the information is no longer privileged. But we hold pretty sacred in this country the right of individuals to legal counsel in criminal proceedings and this feels like a bit of a strong arm tactic to me.
                If Cohen broke the law the privilege goes bye-bye.
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                  Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
                  There's no privilege if you're breaking the law...
                  Um, that's actually not true. You can tell you're attorney you broke the law. The attorney can't then ask you on the stand if you're guilty and let you lie, or argue your actual innocence before a judge or jury. That doesn't mean there is no privilege or the attorney has to reveal what you said to him or her. Now if the attorney was actually part of the crime, then yes, there might not be the expectation of privilege.

                  this post was edited twice, first to add the last sentence at the same time the next post was coming on, then to note that.
                  Last edited by WeAreNDHockey; 04-09-2018, 03:37 PM.

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                  • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                    Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                    Um, that's actually not true. You can tell you're attorney you broke the law. The attorney can't then ask you on the stand if you're guilty and let you lie, or argue your actual innocence before a judge or jury. That doesn't mean there is no privilege or the attorney has to reveal what you said to him or her.
                    If the attorney breaks the law it all goes out the window.
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                    • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                      Originally posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
                      That doesn't mean there is no privilege or the attorney has to reveal what you said to him or her.
                      Let's say I am charged with murdering a guy. I hire you as my lawyer. Then you ask me "did you kill this guy?" and I say "oh, hell yeah; I'd do it again, too." And I want to plead innocent.

                      Do you have to drop my defense? How do you do that without my case being hopelessly compromised?
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                      • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                        I love when conservatives think you can break the law as long as you have a lawyer.

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                        • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                          If the attorney breaks the law it all goes out the window.
                          Hmm. That would actually make me worry. Let's say my lawyer's office gets raided for evidence that he's a criminal. Heck let's even say he is a criminal -- I had the misfortune of hiring Dump's lawyer.

                          But I have rights, too. So when they're rifling his cabinets and they come across my files, do they have to leave them?
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                          • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            Hmm. That would actually make me worry. Let's say my lawyer's office gets raided for evidence that he's a criminal. Heck let's even say he is a criminal -- I had the misfortune of hiring Dump's lawyer.

                            But I have rights, too. So when they're rifling his cabinets and they come across my files, so they have to leave them?
                            They can't use his work product against you. So, I would not be worried. Now if he was breaking the law for you, all bets are off.
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              Let's say I am charged with murdering a guy. I hire you as my lawyer. Then you ask me "did you kill this guy?" and I say "oh, hell yeah; I'd do it again, too." And I want to plead innocent.

                              Do you have to drop my defense? How do you do that without my case being hopelessly compromised?
                              No your attorney does not have to drop you as a client. When you plead "not guilty" you are not saying "I did not do the exact thing I have been legally and properly charged with." That's why perjury charges don't get added on just because a defendant pleads "not guilty." What you are actually saying is "I am not admitting to anything and the state must prove to a jury (or judge) beyond reasonable doubt that I have committed a crime. You still have the right to a defense, guilty or otherwise.

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                              • Re: POTUS 45.31: "The Caravan is Coming.""The Caravan is Coming."

                                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                                They can't use his work product against you. So, I would not be worried. Now if he was breaking the law for you, all bets are off.
                                Why am I not consoled? This feels like a situation where the cops get a warrant and break down my neighbor's door to get his drugs. While there, they find my drugs, for which they not only did not have a warrant but any inkling. But now I'm screwed too.
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