Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

    Originally posted by Hockeybuckeye View Post
    I'm not 100% certain on this but to have the minimum 6 teams to have a sport be officially part of your conference such as when the B1G hockey conference was formed don't all 6 founding teams MUST be FULL FLEDGED members of the conference and not an associate member like Notre Dame currently is?
    Which means if Penn State never formed their team and Notre Dame wanted to join for just hockey the B1G hockey conference couldn't have been formed under those circumstances?
    No. The 5 B1G schools could have formed B1G hockey with Notre Dame (or anyone else) as an affiliate any time they wanted to. For example, the PAC-12 wrestling conference was formed with 3 PAC 12 schools and 3 affiliate schools. When there aren't enough conference member schools playing a sport, schools can form or affiliate with any conference they want to in that sport by mutual agreement.

    B1G conference rules just say that if six full members do have a sport, they must play in the B1G conference. Which is how Terry Pegula created B1G Hockey.
    Originally posted by WiscTJK
    I'm with Wisko and Tim.
    Originally posted by Timothy A
    Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

      Originally posted by Hockeybuckeye View Post
      ...
      Which means if Penn State never formed their team and Notre Dame wanted to join for just hockey the B1G hockey conference couldn't have been formed under those circumstances?
      That’s kind of an academic question.

      If Penn State hadn’t formed their team, Notre Dame (and Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State) would probably still be the big dogs in the CCHA, and Wisconsin and Minnesota would have great rivalries in the WCHA.

      When Penn State formed their team, that made six B1G teams, which meant, so we were told that (as Wisko says) they had to play in a B1G hockey conference. That started the mass realignment, many teams getting fugged in the process.

      Not aiming at you directly Honeybuckeye, but I find the B1G totally disrupting the college hockey landscape, then questioning whether Notre Dame is “deserving” to be kind of like the cliché about the kid who kills his parents then whines about being an orphan.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

        Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
        Notre Dame is the one that got away for the Big Ten.

        They’re a quintessential big ten school. Miswesr, good academics, rife with cash, and name recognition. Notre Dame isn’t a research powerhouse like the rest of the big ten schools though.
        Years ago Notre Dame tried to get admitted into the Big Ten and the Big Ten at the time said, no thank you.
        Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
        dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
        wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

          Originally posted by alfablue View Post
          My take-
          Conferences used to be a regional thing where tribes of schools can get together and economically play a sport. And at the end of the season, all is mixed into a tournament or bowl games to decide a national champion.

          Then it started to take on more of an economic income device. PSU was added to the B1G, and quickly after that the BTN was formed- which added a lot of money into the coffers of the schools. Then all of the rest of the conferences saw that opportunity and joined into the fun of all of that. At THAT point, the whole point of conferences that we dreamed of in the past changed.

          But it only *really * worked for football. It kind of worked pretty well for BB, but BB only conferences like the Big East were blown up by the money of football. Which changed things even more. (which begs the question- how many NC's did BC win for the BE vs. the ACC?)

          The problem with all of that- it really didn't work for hockey, since the scales of schools participating varied all over the place- so it made more sense for the small schools to be more the traditional regional(ish) schools and let the big schools be more spread out.

          Given ND's level of athletics- it kind of made sense originally that they would go HE. But since hockey is expensive, and ND isn't a hockey school, and there are smaller schools in HE- I see all of that contributing to ND needing to leave.

          So lets look at the choices that they have to go- WCHA- the only "like" school there is BG (who have a large athletic budget relative to the rest of the schools). Not a great fit, but it could work. NCHC- like schools- Miami and WMU (the rest are down conferences or not)- again, could work, as the hockey budgets in that conference are clearly more. B1G- the entire conference are "like" schools, and even better, many are already traditional rivals in other sports, let alone the hockey history. Double bonus for how close 3 of the schools are relative to South Bend.

          When it comes to simple logic, it just makes sense that ND would be in the B1G.

          I'm ok with it.

          For many of those reasons, I also see ASU being a member until more western schools start playing hockey. I know that ND complained about western travel, but ASU would be one weekend a year there- which is much less than going to the east coast every other weekend. The "politics" of large athletic programs would not be an issue, too.
          Louisiana Tech was added to the MOUNTAIN WEST (lots of mountains in Western Louisiana I guess), Maryland was added to the B1G, Arizona and Arizona State were added to the Pac-X (rumor has it that you can see the Pacific Ocean from the top of Sun Devil Stadium)..

          But seriously, the whole point is for "neighboring" schools (schools at least within, say, 10,000 miles of each other) to be able to participate in inter-collegiate athletics while still maintaining some semblance of "reasonable" travel costs while sharing regional similarities.
          Last edited by chickod; 03-28-2018, 02:15 PM.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

            Originally posted by chickod View Post
            Louisiana Tech was added to the MOUNTAIN WEST (lots of mountains in Western Louisiana I guess), Maryland was added to the B1G, Arizona and Arizona State were added to the Pac-X (rumor has it that you can see the Pacific Ocean from the top of Sun Devil Stadium)..

            But seriously, the whole point is for "neighboring" schools (schools at least within, say, 10,000 miles of each other) to be able to participate in inter-collegiate athletics while still maintaining some semblance of "reasonable" travel costs while sharing regional similarities.

            At least ASU and UA are in the PACific timezone half the year.

            r

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

              [QUOTE=Wisko B1G conference rules just say that if six full members do have a sport, they must play in the B1G conference. Which is how Terry Pegula created B1G Hockey.[/QUOTE]

              Actually the rule does not say they MUST, it says that at that point they can.

              And for all the claimed hang wringing I see about ND never in the b1g because of research etc etc etc. If they came a calling like they did in hockey it would happen in a $heart$beat.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                Years ago Notre Dame tried to get admitted into the Big Ten and the Big Ten at the time said, no thank you.
                1. When was this?
                2. I assume, if this is true, that Notre Dame tried to get into the B1G for all sports EXCEPT football.
                "It ain't over, baby! And that took only six seconds!"

                USCHO gives me another reason to not do work while I am at work.

                Everything is Hill's fault.....

                "Hakstol you hack!!!!"

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                  Originally posted by gopher wes View Post
                  1. When was this?
                  2. I assume, if this is true, that Notre Dame tried to get into the B1G for all sports EXCEPT football.
                  Around the time the U of Chicago was getting out of the Division one business. I remember reading Notre Dame tried twice around this time.
                  Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                  dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                  wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                    Originally posted by CLS View Post
                    That’s kind of an academic question.

                    If Penn State hadn’t formed their team, Notre Dame (and Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State) would probably still be the big dogs in the CCHA, and Wisconsin and Minnesota would have great rivalries in the WCHA.

                    When Penn State formed their team, that made six B1G teams, which meant, so we were told that (as Wisko says) they had to play in a B1G hockey conference. That started the mass realignment, many teams getting fugged in the process.

                    Not aiming at you directly Honeybuckeye, but I find the B1G totally disrupting the college hockey landscape, then questioning whether Notre Dame is “deserving” to be kind of like the cliché about the kid who kills his parents then whines about being an orphan.
                    The Big Ten rule is that if HALF the schools play the sport, they sponsor a championship. And because they knew that Maryland and Rutgers were coming in, they didn't have to form the Big Ten hockey league since there are now 6 full conference members that play of the 14 total (42.8%). They got sold a bill of goods by BTN that they would increase TV appearances by creating the league and cut out the smaller schools from any revenue sharing. One of those didn't happen, one did. And as a result, much of college hockey as we knew it got sold down the river.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 4four4 View Post
                      Around the time the U of Chicago was getting out of the Division one business. I remember reading Notre Dame tried twice around this time.
                      There were also talks in the late 90s. If I'm remembering correctly, ND first went to the table with all sports except football. Big Ten countered with all or nothing. ND nearly accepted, but some old money or higher ups on the board wanted to stay independent and ultimately said no.
                      Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                      1966, 1986, 2007

                      Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                        Originally posted by gopher wes View Post
                        1. When was this?
                        2. I assume, if this is true, that Notre Dame tried to get into the B1G for all sports EXCEPT football.
                        Shake Down the Thunder: Chapter 23 Anti-aircraft Fire from the Big Ten: 1926

                        https://books.google.com/books?id=lX...201926&f=false


                        "In early 1926, the Notre Dame administration, with better control of it's athletic department, decided to apply for the admission to the Big Ten."

                        EDIT: This included football.
                        Slap Shot - 444 might want to consider a restraining order.
                        dggoddard - Minnesota is THE ELITE Program in all of college hockey.
                        wasmania - you have to be the very best to get ice time with the great gophers!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                          No. The rules say if six exist, any one of them can propose a league. They vote on it and if it passes, all teams can join or they get the boot out of everything else. Including the CIC.
                          Code:
                          As of 9/21/10:         As of 9/13/10:
                          College Hockey 6       College Football 0
                          BTHC 4                 WCHA FC:  1
                          Originally posted by SanTropez
                          May your paint thinner run dry and the fleas of a thousand camels infest your dead deer.
                          Originally posted by bigblue_dl
                          I don't even know how to classify magic vagina smoke babies..
                          Originally posted by Kepler
                          When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
                          He's probably going to be a superstar but that man has more baggage than North West

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hockeybuckeye View Post
                            I'm not 100% certain on this but to have the minimum 6 teams to have a sport be officially part of your conference such as when the B1G hockey conference was formed don't all 6 founding teams MUST be FULL FLEDGED members of the conference and not an associate member like Notre Dame currently is?
                            Which means if Penn State never formed their team and Notre Dame wanted to join for just hockey the B1G hockey conference couldn't have been formed under those circumstances?
                            Big Ten lacrosse only has six teams, including Hopkins. Theoretically the Big Ten could have a women's hockey conference with OSU, Minnesota, Wisconsin, PSU and two other schools if they wanted.

                            Now there is some rule about a certain number of schools having to have played together for a certain number of years in order to obtain an autobid, but I'm pretty sure that's usually waived for everything besides basketball.
                            Go Green! Go White! Go State!

                            1966, 1986, 2007

                            Go Tigers, Go Packers, Go Red Wings, Go Pistons

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                              Originally posted by Spartanforlife4 View Post
                              Now there is some rule about a certain number of schools having to have played together for a certain number of years in order to obtain an autobid, but I'm pretty sure that's usually waived for everything besides basketball.
                              The rule is that a new conference must have a certain number of teams (5, i think?) that have played together for a certain number of years (3 perhaps?) to get a waiver for the 2-year probation period before obtaining an autobid. The NCHC was able to obtain said waiver, since DU, UMD, SCSU, Omaha, and CC all played together in the WCHA. The B1G applied for and was granted a waiver despite not meeting those requirements, probably because they're the B1G.

                              r
                              Last edited by cetihcra; 03-28-2018, 03:32 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

                                Originally posted by John J. MacInnes View Post
                                The Big Ten rule is that if HALF the schools play the sport, they sponsor a championship. And because they knew that Maryland and Rutgers were coming in, they didn't have to form the Big Ten hockey league since there are now 6 full conference members that play of the 14 total (42.8%). They got sold a bill of goods by BTN that they would increase TV appearances by creating the league and cut out the smaller schools from any revenue sharing. One of those didn't happen, one did. And as a result, much of college hockey as we knew it got sold down the river.
                                B1G Hockey conference was publicly announced 20 months before Rutgers and Maryland held a vote on joining the B1G. And clearly B1G hockey was planned long before it was actually announced. They were already playing a conference hockey season when it first was reported Maryland and Rutgers were in negotiations with the B1G. You're suggesting the B1G knew those schools were joining something like 3 years before it was even voted on.
                                Originally posted by WiscTJK
                                I'm with Wisko and Tim.
                                Originally posted by Timothy A
                                Other than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X