Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

[4four4]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Michigan is ahead in the latest rankings:
Michigan - 10.9
Notre Dame - 9.4
OSU - 4.2

Notre dame is overall ~10th now.

But you aren't wrong at all otherwise. You might even be understating it. When Notre Dame has a football game, the South Bend airport closes one runway so they can park all the private jets that fly in for the weekend. When the University of Minnesota needs $200 million for athletics, it can take years to raise. When Notre Dame needs that amount, they could raise it in a month, or weekend.

Minnesota people are cheap they don't like to spend their money on athletics but we will find a way to fund raise for all things academia or charities. Think about all the money here and it's like pulling teeth to find money for athletics.

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

I can't imagine a West Coast school that would think it advantageous to move to the B1G? And it would have to be one with a nice sided Media footprint and Research rankings?

But can you imagine having to stay up until all hours of the night to watch games when we have to fly out there to play them?

I think a Texas-Oklahoma combo might make the most sense, though I'm not sure of Oklahoma's qualifications? And Texas has similar issues as with ND as they demand more than the B1G is willing to give.


And someone mentioned BU? Would a school without a football team EVER be considered? They used to play in around a 10,000 seat stadium? That wouldn't cut it if they were willing to start up football again. I mean, moving into the Boston Media Market would be nice, and BC with better sports to offer probably doesn't measure up outside of sports?


And JHU was mentioned, now they could try to upgrade their sports, but do they add anything to the media footprint? We already added Maryland, so I don't think they would.


With all the oil money up in North Dakota, how many decades away would they be from qualifying? Not much of a media footprint.


I don't like Notre Dame, for a ton of reasons, but even so, they still seem like a more natural fit than someone like Texas? Although Nebraska didn't seem like a fit when they joined and I've gotten used to them.



And the way things are going with people not being happy about the NCAA and talk of going to a Super 64 system of 4 super conferences, each with 16 teams, do we have 20 years to wait to find #15 and #16?

[joecct]

For right now all that matters is probably football and basketball, but hockey used to be a legit Revenue sport here at Minnesota. And with the NHL expanding and becoming more and more popular every year, there could come a day when college hockey enters the discussion at least, and hopefully especially here at Minnesota. The NHLPA is working on helping out College hockey by helping to fund at least one more college hockey program, if not more down the line. Illinois was the first school they considered or are going to consider. So if the NHL makes an investment into college hockey, and if the B1G continues to do well like they did this year, college hockey's relevance could rise.


I think your view of club sports, IN GENERAL, may be fairly accurate, but not when it comes to hockey. Club Hockey teams are sometimes the 3rd most popular sports team on college campuses out there. That is what I heard about Arizona and Arizona St's club teams, about 10 years ago, and now look where ASU is?

No other club sport out there comes even close to comparing to Club Hockey, and that is mainly because most club sports teams are in sports almost no one cares about, OR the school has a Div 1,2 or 3 team so the Club team members are obviously not the best players of that sport on their own campus so of course they get seen as 2nd, maybe 3rd class citizens in regards to sports. That is usually not true when it comes to hockey, except for schools like Minnesota that has both a Div 1 team and a club team. UMn's Club team won a Natl Title a few years back, and probably 1 other person in this whole site knows about it. But at a school like Illinois or Arizona, fans of those schools care about how well their Club hockey team does.

Wasn't it Minnesota's women's club team that won an ACHA title?

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Wasn't it Minnesota's women's club team that won an ACHA title?

Yes, I am sure it was the UMn Women's Club team that won an ACHA title. Not sure exactly what year, but I definitely remember seeing that.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Minnesota people are cheap they don't like to spend their money on athletics but we will find a way to fund raise for all things academia or charities. Think about all the money here and it's like pulling teeth to find money for athletics.

It means we have our heads on straight.

[4four4]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

It means we have our heads on straight.

Exactly.

[Eddie Schorr]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

The other thing I'd mention in this deal is that Notre Dame could literally heat their dorms by burning piles of cash and never run out. They're sitting on one of the largest endowments in the US at 12 billion dollars. Not only do they have more cash than any B1G school , (mostly by 2x -3x - MI is within a billion or two) but with less than 9k students, their endowment just dwarfs all but H-Y-P on a per student basis. Their last round of fundraising had a target of $700+ million and they ended up with $2 billion...

I get why they are attractive to the B1G in athletics, although perhaps less so on the big research end of things, but why would ND want to join the group when they are now completely autonomous and rolling in massive piles of ca$h all by themselves?

I think you exaggerate the gap a bit. State schools still get state money even if it's not at a level that it once was. I'll use Ohio State's numbers because that's what I'm familiar with. They get three sources from the state a general per in-state student instructional subsidy which is the same for any state school (a backwards *** approach imo), performance based subsidies (based on retention and grad rates) and a share of the state's capital appropriations bill for the physical plant. Last year, it all added up to $438M. Given that a university endowment usually disburses around 4.5% of the principal each year, that state money is equivalent to having another 10B in endowment. Ohio State just added $1.1B to the endowment through an energy leasing deal which pushed it past $5B, so to compare it (or any public Big Ten school) to Notre Dame on an apples to apples basis, Ohio State has the equivalent of a $15B endowment. Now being much smaller, Notre Dame still has a big gap when it's looked at on a per student basis, but the gap isn't as large as it initially seems.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

I think you exaggerate the gap a bit. State schools still get state money even if it's not at a level that it once was. I'll use Ohio State's numbers because that's what I'm familiar with. They get three sources from the state a general per in-state student instructional subsidy which is the same for any state school (a backwards *** approach imo), performance based subsidies (based on retention and grad rates) and a share of the state's capital appropriations bill for the physical plant. Last year, it all added up to $438M. Given that a university endowment usually disburses around 4.5% of the principal each year, that state money is equivalent to having another 10B in endowment. Ohio State just added $1.1B to the endowment through an energy leasing deal which pushed it past $5B, so to compare it (or any public Big Ten school) to Notre Dame on an apples to apples basis, Ohio State has the equivalent of a $15B endowment. Now being much smaller, Notre Dame still has a big gap when it's looked at on a per student basis, but the gap isn't as large as it initially seems.

When we talk about who has how much money, it's not enough to count just how much passes through hands or what the total pile is at a given moment in time. OSU has 46,000 head count employees and salary expense of $2.5 billion/yr. Total operating expenses are $5.5 billion. This on $5 billion in revenue, so state money doesn't even cover half the shortfall on operations. It's hard to see how you can calculate up a $10 billion endowment value out of a $500 million loss. But that does seem a lot like some other government accounting I've seen in the past, so maybe...

ND received $462 million in donations last year and more the year before, so if you want to reverse calculate revenues from the state into endowment equivalents, perhaps ND could be allowed to do the same and add another 10-11 billion on too.

Another way to look at it:

ND has 5-6k employees and operating expenses of $1.6 billion/yr. If ND ceased all revenue generation tomorrow, they could operate fully funded for 13 years or so on their endowment alone. Even with the state's $438 million/yr OSU couldn't even meet expenses for one full year from their endowment. It's hard for me to see how they are in any kind of similar shape.

If we scaled ND's endowment up to OSU's size based on operating costs, OSU would need $41.25 billion to be equivalent. If we did it by equalizing employee headcount, OSU would need $92 billion...

Just pointing out that expenses matter a lot when counting how much money you have.

[UMICH]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

It means we have our heads on straight.

*snicker*

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

If we scaled ND's endowment up to OSU's size based on operating costs, OSU would need $41.25 billion to be equivalent. If we did it by equalizing employee headcount, OSU would need $92 billion...
Just pointing out that expenses matter a lot when counting how much money you have.

OSU must have money to burn - they certainly waste enough of it on our worthless Athletic Director's excessive salary & perks!

[UMICH]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

OSU must have money to burn - they certainly waste enough of it on our worthless Athletic Director's excessive salary & perks!

It's ohio....

[mookie1995]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Congrats to the big ten on their women’s b-ball championship

[chickod]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Congrats to the big ten on their women’s b-ball championship

Good one! (I wonder how many people caught that right away)

[FredsDeadFriend]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Good one! (I wonder how many people caught that right away)

"Good one!"??? man, you seem to have some REALLY low standards, but hey, whatever floats your boat I guess?

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Is Notre Dame REALLY a Big Ten school?

Congrats to the big ten on their women’s b-ball championship

Since April Fools Day was yesterday I can't wonder if this is serious or just playing to the title of this thread.