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Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

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  • Originally posted by FredsDeadFriend View Post
    I think the example of the Lam sisters is relevant as a comparison to Motzko. Why did they pick Minnesota over UND? lol we all know why, at UMn they could play for Natl Titles.

    But why did they transfer to UND? Because that was their first love, that is where their true loyalties laid. I had a lot of respect for them for doing that. It was good for women's hockey and worked to help make UND a much better team, until they left and well, things went downhill from there.


    So let me ask you SteveO, why did Motzko leave UMn and go to SCSU? Was it because SCSU was his true first love? Is that the team he grew up wanting to play for?


    Why did Herb Brooks leave UMn to coach the Olympic team? Was coaching the Gophers and winning a Natl Title in ncaa hockey his biggest dream? If it was, he would have turned down the chance to coach the Olympic team and/or gone back to UMn the next year.

    Or was it to win a Gold Medal at the Olympics? I think we all know the answer to that.


    The Lams were willing to sacrifice the great chance of winning Natl Titles, to do something more noble and memorable and meaningful.


    If Motzko's TRUE love was SCSU, wouldn't he have gone there his first year? And wouldn't he have turned down the offer to come here and coach? I mean, SCSU, arguably has been the more successful program as of late. Had he stayed there and we gone with Grant P or someone even further down the list of candidates, there would be a chance SCSU would have continued to best the Gophers in head to head matchups and in their place in the rankings and # of trips to the NCAA tourney, etc..


    So it's a pay raise, but you don't think SCSU wouldn't have given him a pay raise if they thought it would keep him there? Grant P used the interviewing for the job here as leverage for a pay raise, my guess is Motzko would have gotten a raise had he made that offer to SCSU. But he didn't, did he? And the cost of living in the Twin Cities is higher than it is in St Cloud, so will he really be making a HUGE amount more, when it's all said and done?

    So I doubt the money issue was a big factor. And Prestige? The only way he'll gain more prestige is if he does something MORE than what Lucia did the past 5-10 years, and something MORE than what SCSU succeeds in doing the next couple of years as well.


    This seems sort of like the Herb Brooks thing to me. Motzko came to the U to play for the U and that didn't work out, and didn't just try once, but twice, much like Brooks tried out for the 1960 Olympic team and it didn't work out, and tried again in 64 and made the team but didn't win Gold. 20 years later he left what was easily considered, AT THAT TIME, the #1 top most prestigious college hockey program of the 70's, to take on the daunting task of trying to beat the mighty Russians and garner the US a Gold Medal. Now it's been how many years since he tried out for the Gophers and failed, and he gets an opportunity to lead the team he couldn't make, to a Natl Title? And he knows what it feels like since he as on the staff when Lucia achieved as a coach what he couldn't as a player.


    Seems to me like there could be the evidence there of where his heart truly has been all along? Definitely worth considering.
    Actually, Brooks said numerous times that the best experience of his life wasn't winning the gold, winning national championships, or coaching in the NHL. It was playing in the State Tourney with his buddies.
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    • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

      Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
      Would anyone question Potulny's love for the Gophers because he took a job with NMU? I believe he interviewed for the Gophers opening. Why did Blais coach UND? If Motzko was nothing but loyal to SCSU why take a job with Minnesota the first time around? Only because of money? When he did leave is it not logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon or could it only be because UM meant nothing to him?

      Regardless is there there really a pissing contest going on trying to prove the only reason someone would take a job with UM is because of money even though SCSU could have paid him at least in the same ballpark? Really? Is the pettiness really that deep?
      I can't even tell who you are addressing here. You seem to be making my point while also arguing against it.
      No one did question Potulny's love for the Gophers. Fred here is trying to question Motzko's love for St. Cloud. Motzko took the job with Minnesota probably because he coaches for a living, it paid well and it was a good opportunity to learn under a well thought of coach at a big time college hockey program. When he left it definitely is logical that he wanted to become a head coach and didn't see Lucia leaving anytime soon. He wasn't hired as a head coach, though. He was hired as an assistant under Dahl. And no, $302k is not in the same ballpark as $565k plus performance bonuses.

      But I will put it to you this way: If a guy couldn't make the team at UND, and the Gophers took him in and put him on the team. And then the Gophers give that same guy his first coaching opportunity. Years later, after a handful of jobs, he is an assistant at UND for 4 years. The Gophers then offer the guy a lateral move as an assistant and he takes it. Suprisingly, whoever is coaching the Gophers quits and the guy is made the head coach. He coaches the Gophers for 13 years and then UND offers to pay him the same amount to go there. Would you want a guy that would leave the Gophers coaching your program? If it isn't the money, isn't that a pathetic level of disloyalty? So am I being petty for defending Motzko's decision, or is it petty to try and rub salt in the wound of a fanbase whose coach was just poached from them by saying his allegiance was to the Gophers all along?
      Originally posted by SJHovey
      Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
      Originally posted by Brenthoven
      We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

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      • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

        Originally posted by First Time, Long Time View Post
        We do believe he took it mostly because of money whether he says so or not. He doubled his salary basically and there was no way we could match that.
        His loyalty to us wasn't strong enough to overcome that...ce la vie.
        It hurts and you can't expect us to not be a little petty about it for a while.
        I mean when was the last time a head coach left for a job with one of their biggest rivals? It doesn't happen often.
        I don't begrudge you one bit about being upset about it, I just think you're selling Bob and the UM program a bit short is all. We can agree to disagree.

        Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
        Would you want a guy that would leave the Gophers coaching your program? If it isn't the money, isn't that a pathetic level of disloyalty?
        Yes I would and it isn't. Bob wanted to be a head coach - why should he stay at Minnesota for an unknown number of years just in hopes of one day replacing Lucia? Can he not have 2 passions (UM and head coaching) at the same time? Yet sometimes those passions don't always intersect. I've been in my business for 20 years after starting off in a different field. I've been with one company for 14 years that I love (first 10 in MN the past 4 here in PH), but the day I get an offer that makes sense to come back to MN even if it isn't with my current company I am gone. It doesn't make me disloyal it makes me astute.

        I don't fault Grant one iota for going to NMU to chase his dreams which obviously includes head coaching. Sure he got more $ to go to NMU but it wasn't a ridiculous amount more - but he has the passion for leading a program and went after it. I don't find it disloyal to the Gophers at all and if he finally gets the chance to come back hear to lead assuming he's proven he's worthy I'll welcome him back 100%.

        As I said to FTLT it's not unusual fo ryou to be unhappy with this at all but I do think there's a bit of cloudy judgement going on here in assuming Bob is only in it for the money. But if he is and he leads them to wins I can live with it I guess. I'll leave this argument behind because it's pretty silly imho.
        Last edited by Slap Shot; 03-30-2018, 09:36 PM.

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        • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

          Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
          If the money wasn't a big factor, why did he ever leave the Gophers? When you listen to his reasoning on why he left SCSU, his responses have been "I always thought I had one more move in me", "It was an opportunity and I wanted it", "This was a job that you only get one kick at the can, and it was there” To me, these are vague responses that actually don't tell the person listening anything. Probably because the real reasons don't sound any better. "I took the job because they doubled my pay", "I took the job because the Gophers spend twice as much on hockey as St. Cloud", and "I took the job because it will be easier to get recruits to go to a big name school" all sound cold and would turn off the people they are trying to sell this move to.

          If it helps your psyche to think he secretly loved the Gophers all along and couldn't wait to ditch his alma mater to go back there, rock on. But it's a pretty ridiculous theory.
          I think you nailed it and I can't disagree with you. I am not proud of the fact that a school with a much larger budget can wave money in front of a head coach and poach him from a smaller school, whose recent program success is unparalleled under his leadership, with a counter offer that by comparison is like offering him a cup of coffee.

          Something I read recently comes to mind:

          Virtue has no master. If a person does not honor this principle and rejoice in it, but is purchasable for money, he creates many masters for himself. - Plato

          I've never entertained the thought that Bob Motzko is not passionate about coaching, and I fully expect him to deliver it in full measure to the Gopher players and staff.

          But the thought occurred to me if he ever thought last season, after successfully coaching the Huskies to #1 in the NCAA and winning their second Penrose Cup as NCHC regular-season champions; "You know, I think I'm done here at SCSU. There's really nothing more to experience with the hockey program. I'm ready to move on"? If he did, that's extremely atypical for a coach with his recent success.

          Originally posted by Slap Shot View Post
          Bob wanted to be a head coach - why should he stay at Minnesota for an unknown number of years just in hopes of one day replacing Lucia?
          I think most Gopher fans understand that's exactly what MG has been faithfully doing for several years.

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          • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

            MG didn't get the job, but I am sure the admin did their due diligence when it came to evaluating MG and you have zero reason to believe they didn't.

            Did you call the hiring of Lucia into question for leaving CC even though they were doing extremely well at the time? Yes Lucia was not an alum, but again Bob did attend the U for 2 years (and only left because he was cut) and did coach there for several years. Your angst over this is bizarre.
            Last edited by Slap Shot; 04-02-2018, 11:18 PM.

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            • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

              If you don't think Guentzel had much control over the program under Lucia, then he has no college head coaching experience. And if you think his time as Associate Head Coach should count as head coaching experience, then he also deserves some responsibility for the program growing stale.

              I like Mike Guentzel, but I understand and am ok with them going in a different direction. I really hope he stays on as an assistant.
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              • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                Don Lucia was delegating a lot more to his assts. in the past couple years, but MG's job description was limited to the defense. He spent 21 years as a Gopher asst. under Doug Woog and Don Lucia and returned to the Gophers from Omaha in 2011 with a view to replacing Don Lucia whenever that time arrived. Brad Berry had 10 yrs. experience as an asst. at UND before being appointed as head coach.

                Mike coached two Hobey Baker Award winners, 16 All-Americans and helped develop 29 NHL defenseman.

                Some fans may not realize that last year about this time MG was honored by his NCAA D1 peers at the American Hockey Coaches Association convention in Naples, Fla. with the Terry Flanagan Award recognizing his career work as one of the top assistant coaches in college hockey.

                “No one better represents the Gopher Hockey program and college hockey than Mike Guentzel,” said Lucia. “Mike was a great leader on the ice for the Gophers as a captain, and he has dedicated his career to being an equally great coach for us. In my opinion there isn’t a better coach in the nation for defensive prospects and for that matter, there isn’t a coach that cares more about his players and his program.”
                In a statement last season at this time, Lucia mentioned Mike Guentzel as his choice to replacement him:

                "Mike has certainly paid his dues," Lucia said. "He'd be the logical one to take over. He's obviously someone that I would endorse. He's very passionate. He's knowledgeable. He was a former captain. If I could wave my magic wand, which I don't get to do, I think he's earned the right to get the next opportunity here."
                At the risk of being personally attacked for sharing a currently unconventional opinion on a discussion forum, I would have liked to have seen what MG as head coach would have brought to the table. His family bleeds hockey and I feel badly for him that he didn't get the job he'd been waiting for throughout his career.

                Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.
                Last edited by SteveO; 04-03-2018, 01:02 PM.

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                • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                  I think MG's approach to defensive integration is really very effective - among the best in the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if forwards got spoiled because of it.

                  Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if negative attitudes in the coaching staff exhibited on the bench contributed largely to passing the torch. If that's true, MG will likely not return.
                  Go Gophers!

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                  • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                    Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                    Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.
                    One would think that the longer it takes for Motzko to name his assistants the more likely it becomes that MG will not return.
                    Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                    • Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                      Don Lucia was delegating a lot more to his assts. in the past couple years, but MG's job description was limited to the defense. He spent 21 years as a Gopher asst. under Doug Woog and Don Lucia and returned to the Gophers from Omaha in 2011 with a view to replacing Don Lucia whenever that time arrived. Brad Berry had 10 yrs. experience as an asst. at UND before being appointed as head coach.

                      Mike coached two Hobey Baker Award winners, 16 All-Americans and helped develop 29 NHL defenseman.

                      Some fans may not realize that last year about this time MG was honored by his NCAA D1 peers at the American Hockey Coaches Association convention in Naples, Fla. with the Terry Flanagan Award recognizing his career work as one of the top assistant coaches in college hockey.



                      In a statement last season at this time, Lucia mentioned Mike Guentzel as his choice to replacement him:



                      At the risk of being personally attacked for sharing a currently unconventional opinion on a discussion forum, I would have liked to have seen what MG as head coach would have brought to the table. His family bleeds hockey and I feel badly for him that he didn't get the job he'd been waiting for throughout his career.

                      Motzko stated that choosing his assts. will take more time. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the last of MG behind the Gopher bench.
                      I really like and respect Mike Guentzel, but I don't think he was the right guy for the job. The program hasn't met expectations the past 4 years, and he isn't immune to some culpability. Especially when our defense has been lackluster the past 4 years.

                      I am arguably as provincial as they come and am a self-professed Gopher homer, but even I don't care too much about the "bleeds for the program" angle. In fact, that sounds an awful lot like the rhetoric coming from a small faction of our alumni that I detest. It hurts the program more than it helps.

                      Nothing against coach Guentzel. I am a big Mike Guentzel fan. If he moves on, I wish him well.
                      Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 04-03-2018, 07:29 PM.
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                      • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                        I agree with this statement; not only was there a downward trend in productivity, but there should be an understanding that for Motzko to right the ship, he gets his own people. If that's Guentzel fine, if that's Bell fine, but he shouldn't be tied to them both.

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                        • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                          Originally posted by mnstate0fhockey View Post
                          I really like and respect Mike Guentzel, but I don't think he was the right guy for the job. The program hasn't met expectations the past 4 years, and he isn't immune to some culpability. Especially when our defense has been lackluster the past 4 years.

                          I am arguably as provincial as they come and am a self-professed Gopher homer, but even I don't care too much about the "bleeds for the program" angle. In fact, that sounds an awful lot like the rhetoric coming from a small faction of our alumni that I detest. It hurts the program more than it helps.

                          Nothing against coach Guentzel. I am a big Mike Guentzel fan. If he moves on, I wish him well.
                          First, I find it interesting how so many people can judge an assistant coach, without seeing more than how they perform in front of the camera. Why do people think Guentzel was a star coach when he took over for Hill but now question his coaching. Yes, I understand. Performance of the D wasn't great this year. But how do you factor out guys who were recruited young just not being able to meet the projections of the past. NHL scouts thought these guys looked pretty good, not that long ago. Do people think all the players Guentzel developed in the past were a fluke, or that he has lost the ability to coach them recently? Could it be more about the recent players skills than the coaching, perhaps? I realize this is the internet and the point is speculation, but so many people seem to have switched on Guentzel in a few years, and I don't think he has necessarily changed. More importantly, there are a lot of factors to consider that we as fans don't see.

                          As for the people who assume he is gone because Motzko is delaying naming someone, did you ever think that maybe Motzko is purposely waiting for the dust to settle. He may be strongly considering Guentzel but knows that he needs a cooling off period before he might consider returning to the Gophers? Or maybe he is thinking he wants to see who SCSU offers to so he doesn't get an assistant to commit, then that person turns around and get hired at SCSU as the HC. Hard to know from our cheap seats.

                          And as for having an "M" guy, I am one who thinks having that is something worth considering. A lot of our recruits talk about always having wanted to be a Gopher. Some players were that way when they were younger and it faded some as they saw more options. (A top recruit to UND was that way.) A coach who can speak from the heart about what the Gopher Program has meant to them on the recruiting trail and the legacy of the program from personal experience will likely make a difference in some of these cases. It sets MN apart from most schools. I don't want to see all three coaches being from elsewhere for this reason. I don't think they all need to be "M" men either, you want your best option, especially at HC. So while there is that faction of alums that have had a negative influence with their insistence on all alum coaches and MN players, I believe maintaining some level of that Legacy and pride on the bench has value.

                          I don't pretend to be an expert judge of coaches so will wait and see how things go over teh next several years. But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program. I would understand if Motzko wants a fresh start, or if Guentzel decides to leave. But I would be fine with Guentzel being brought back, despite how the D performed this last year. I think the evidence points to him being a good coach, and as I stated above, having someone with that level of commitment to the Legacy of the program I just can't see how it would be a negative.

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                          • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                            Originally posted by Koho View Post
                            But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program.
                            I think the timing of when Lucia spoke highly of Guentzel is something to consider. If I'm not mistaken, he has not voiced an opinion or given any kind of a recommendation, at least publicly, since he announced his retirement. Before that, yes, he was very supportive, but no way would he say anything different with games yet to be played.

                            I haven't done any research on other recent coaching changes, but how often has a new head coach retained his existing coaching staff vs. bringing in his own? Doing the latter would eliminate any possibility of:

                            (a) any lingering resentment (MG was interviewed and obviously wanted the job) and
                            (b) internal friction/disagreements between what Motzko wants to do (the new) and the way MG and Lucia have been doing things for so many years (the old).

                            After thinking about this I've come to the conclusion that a totally fresh start would be best for the program. This assumes that Motzko can identify and bring in the guys he needs to form a cohesive staff that are all on the same page - Motzko's page.
                            Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                            • Originally posted by Koho View Post
                              First, I find it interesting how so many people can judge an assistant coach, without seeing more than how they perform in front of the camera. Why do people think Guentzel was a star coach when he took over for Hill but now question his coaching. Yes, I understand. Performance of the D wasn't great this year. But how do you factor out guys who were recruited young just not being able to meet the projections of the past. NHL scouts thought these guys looked pretty good, not that long ago. Do people think all the players Guentzel developed in the past were a fluke, or that he has lost the ability to coach them recently? Could it be more about the recent players skills than the coaching, perhaps? I realize this is the internet and the point is speculation, but so many people seem to have switched on Guentzel in a few years, and I don't think he has necessarily changed. More importantly, there are a lot of factors to consider that we as fans don't see.

                              As for the people who assume he is gone because Motzko is delaying naming someone, did you ever think that maybe Motzko is purposely waiting for the dust to settle. He may be strongly considering Guentzel but knows that he needs a cooling off period before he might consider returning to the Gophers? Or maybe he is thinking he wants to see who SCSU offers to so he doesn't get an assistant to commit, then that person turns around and get hired at SCSU as the HC. Hard to know from our cheap seats.

                              And as for having an "M" guy, I am one who thinks having that is something worth considering. A lot of our recruits talk about always having wanted to be a Gopher. Some players were that way when they were younger and it faded some as they saw more options. (A top recruit to UND was that way.) A coach who can speak from the heart about what the Gopher Program has meant to them on the recruiting trail and the legacy of the program from personal experience will likely make a difference in some of these cases. It sets MN apart from most schools. I don't want to see all three coaches being from elsewhere for this reason. I don't think they all need to be "M" men either, you want your best option, especially at HC. So while there is that faction of alums that have had a negative influence with their insistence on all alum coaches and MN players, I believe maintaining some level of that Legacy and pride on the bench has value.

                              I don't pretend to be an expert judge of coaches so will wait and see how things go over teh next several years. But a lot of people who know better than I, including Lucia, who despite possibly having had some personality conflicts with him at times, speak highly of Guentzel's coaching ability and commitment to the job and the program. I would understand if Motzko wants a fresh start, or if Guentzel decides to leave. But I would be fine with Guentzel being brought back, despite how the D performed this last year. I think the evidence points to him being a good coach, and as I stated above, having someone with that level of commitment to the Legacy of the program I just can't see how it would be a negative.
                              I find it equally as puzzling that some are so defensive about him not getting the job. I'm not either judging Mike, or claiming to be an expert. I am just stating my opinion. He doesn't have any college head coaching experience and he was in charge of a D corps that has struggled the past 4 years. That doesn't mean he can't be a great head coach. It also doesn't excuse him from any and all culpability in this program's struggles the last 4 years.

                              Again, I like Mike Guentzel. I am just not all that upset that he didn't get the head coaching job. And I certainly don't think that he was "owed" anything by the university. You need to earn a head coaching position, and there are differing opinions on whether or not his job performance earned that. You seem to think he proved capable, but I am not as sure on that.

                              I preferred a coach from outside the current staff, and we got that. I would love to see Mike stay on the staff to coach, but I am guessing he won't want to do that, which I cannot fault him for.
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                              • Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                                And I will add this - The more people say that Mike Guentzel was "owed" the job (not saying anyone here has, but I have read that elsewhere), the more content I am that he didn't get the job. I don't want our coaching decisions to be made on ANYTHING other than coaching, talent development, and recruiting merits. I could care less if he is an alum or not or whether or not he is passionate about Gopher hockey. I care about talent evaluation, recruiting prowess, and coaching ability when it comes to filling our head coaching positions. I don't want to ever get to the point where we are just passing the torch to the guy who is the biggest cheerleader or has been around the longest.

                                Again, not saying that Mike Guentzel isn't good or great at any of those, I am just less confident in his ability than I was 5 years ago and I wanted to see a shakeup. Just my $0.02.
                                Last edited by mnstate0fhockey; 04-03-2018, 11:29 PM.
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