Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

    Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Just to be clear, I don't buy that Casey was saddled with terrible linemates - including the top goal scorer in the USHL in the last five years. Also, they frequently didn't play against the other team's top line. He should have had a tailwind in scoring.

    What I'm saying is he...

    Casey wasn't the least productive first round Gopher ever. But the stellar Kris Chucko did produce more than him.

    Points per first round pick:
    Jeff Taffe 113
    Thomas Vanek 113
    Tom Chorske 101
    Nick Bjugstad 98
    Blake Wheeler 96
    Erik Rasmussen 75
    Jordan Schroeder73
    Patrick White 53
    Phil Kessel 51
    Kyle Okposo 51
    Kris Chucko 34
    Casey Mittelstadt30
    Jim O'Brien 15

    He wasn't a great college hockey player...he'll be a great pro.
    Nice work! Let's face it, CM has innate talent, but at a young 19 he's still a body of work in process.

    I think a lot Gopher fans thought CM would be a reload for Kloos on the Pitlick/Kloos/Sheehy line and light it up. I guess I bought into that as well. But the correlation between Kloos and CM is actually quite low (skills, style, age, experience, etc.). The line seemed to gel for a few weeks and then Sheehy was dropped to the 2nd line. Then it became Pitlick/CM/Reedy. They lasted a while and then another change. I don't think there was any consistent pairing with CM that worked. The closest was Pitlick. I attribute that to a young and talented CM still needing to develop leadership, positioning, strength and skill at the college level.

    On the other side, I can see where team struggles most likely affected CM's numbers. Schierhorn did not live up to expectations this season after two seasons as Big Ten Goalie of the Year. His decline was quite a surprise to many. The PP was terrible. The D was not good and we lacked an offensive D like Bischoff (Johnson never became that guy). A lack of productive seniors was a problem compared to the previous season too.

    I can see extraneous variables on both sides of the argument that led to the Gophers demise last season and CM's low production compared to other highly talented frosh that you've listed above.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

      Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
      Glad it's settled that Middlestadt is going to dominate the NHL.
      Point well taken. Dominating is a loaded term. What does that practically mean in the NHL? At this point I hesitate to say he will "dominate". A lot guys show promise and it just doesn't happen for 'em and then they end up somewhere in the KHL. Not saying that will happen to CM, but it does happen.

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

        Originally posted by SteveO View Post
        Point well taken. Dominating is a loaded term. What does that practically mean in the NHL? At this point I hesitate to say he will "dominate". A lot guys show promise and it just doesn't happen for 'em and then they end up somewhere in the KHL. Not saying that will happen to CM, but it does happen.
        5mn_major said he will be a great pro. There's just no way you can know these things. He could be a perennial all-star, he could be out of the league in 3 years. The 8th pick is hardly a sure thing.
        Originally posted by SJHovey
        Pretty sure this post, made on January 3, 2016, when UNO was 14-3-1 and #2 in the pairwise, will go down in USCHO lore as The Curse of Tipsy McStagger.
        Originally posted by Brenthoven
        We mourn for days after a loss, puff out our chests for a week or more after we win. We brave the cold for tailgates, our friends know not to ask about the game after a tough loss, we laugh, we cry, we BLEED hockey, specifically the maroon'n'gold. Many of us have a tattoo waiting in the wings, WHEN (not IF) the Gophers are champions again.

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

          Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
          5mn_major said he will be a great pro. There's just no way you can know these things. He could be a perennial all-star, he could be out of the league in 3 years. The 8th pick is hardly a sure thing.
          I agree. He's a work in progress and it's hard to predict an NHL performance outcome at this stage.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

            Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
            Just to be clear, I don't buy that Casey was saddled with terrible linemates - including the top goal scorer in the USHL in the last five years. Also, they frequently didn't play against the other team's top line. He should have had a tailwind in scoring.
            I didn't say he was saddled with terrible linemates (at least at forward, the D is a different story). He was saddled with a terrible defensive system that sold out to play defense at the expense of offense at 5 on 5. Also that whole power play gong show.

            As for the points of guys who played across different eras, some of which were much higher scoring, it's not really a valid comparison. Heck just look at the pads and style of play those goalies were playing on those Vanek highlights.

            Originally posted by Bonin21 View Post
            You have ZERO way to know that. Also I love the, "Without Casey, Pitlick wouldn't or the team wouldn't do this or that...", but if you say "Without Pitlick, Casey wouldn't have done this or that", it's blasphemy.
            How many points did Vanek have on the power play? Take all but like 2 of those away because this power play was horrific and couldn't enter the zone half the time, adjust for better goaltending in this era, adjust for quality of teammates/system, and yeah, he almost certainly doesn't have 31 goals on this team.
            Last edited by trixR4kids; 03-27-2018, 11:35 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

              Originally posted by Tipsy McStagger View Post
              5mn_major said he will be a great pro. There's just no way you can know these things. He could be a perennial all-star, he could be out of the league in 3 years. The 8th pick is hardly a sure thing.
              You kinda missed the entire point of the post. But yeah...he'll do just fine in the NHL.
              Go Gophers!

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                I didn't say he was saddled with terrible linemates. He was saddled with a terrible defensive system that sold out to play defense at the expense of offense at 5 on 5. Also that whole power play gong show.

                As for the points of guys who played across different eras, some of which were much higher scoring, it's not really a valid comparison. Heck just look at the pads and style of play those goalies were playing on those Vanek highlights.
                Yeah, definitely high scoring era back then. Rarely see anything close to those numbers now. If you look at the freshman years ONLY he might be close to others too.
                Last edited by SteveO; 03-27-2018, 11:33 AM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                  Originally posted by SteveO View Post
                  Yeah, definitely high scoring era back then. Rarely see anything close to those numbers now. If you look at the freshman years ONLY he might be close to others too.
                  I forget exactly when goalie pads started shifting but I want to say it was more around 2005 or 2006. I had the old school pads all through high school and eventually bought my own modern ones as an adult in 2012

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                    Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                    I forget exactly when goalie pads started shifting but I want to say it was more around 2005 or 2006. I had the old school pads all through high school and eventually bought my own modern ones as an adult in 2012
                    Pre-2005, the armor movement took off as available materials became lighter, stronger and waterproof. Goalies started donning customized arm and chest protection that included a nylon suit with thick blocks of foam and plastic, and shoulder flaps to shield the underarm area. Masks were a hybrid of fiberglass and epoxy resin secured to the head by a plate on the back. To gain an edge, some keepers began wearing leg pads that exceeded a width of 12 inches, prestaging an era when goaltenders looked for any advantage by inflating their equipment size.

                    After 2005, the NHL decided enough was enough and began requiring form-fitting jerseys and pads proportioned to a goalie’s size. Leg pads could be no wider than 11 inches. Blockers were reduced from 16” to 15” and the circumference of catching gloves was shrunk from 48” to 45” to make pucks harder to hold onto and thus create more rebounds.

                    But in its constant desire to increase scoring, the NHL reduced the height of leg pads by an average of two inches starting in 2013-14, and more changes are on the way.- https://www.si.com/nhl/2016/03/29/nh...n-1917-to-2016
                    Last edited by SteveO; 03-27-2018, 11:48 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                      Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
                      I didn't say he was saddled with terrible linemates (at least at forward, the D is a different story). He was saddled with a terrible defensive system that sold out to play defense at the expense of offense at 5 on 5. Also that whole power play gong show.

                      As for the points of guys who played across different eras, some of which were much higher scoring, it's not really a valid comparison. Heck just look at the pads and style of play those goalies were playing on those Vanek highlights.

                      How many points did Vanek have on the power play? Take all but like 2 of those away because this power play was horrific and couldn't enter the zone half the time, adjust for better goaltending in this era, adjust for quality of teammates/system, and yeah, he almost certainly doesn't have 31 goals on this team.
                      Still don't buy it. No, CMs performance was not due to smaller goalie pads twenty years ago. Top scorer Kyle Connor had 71 points year before last and leading scorer Peter Sjena had 79 points in Vanek's 2003. Giving 10% more points to CM puts him at 33...not earth shattering. And other NCAA freshmen this year scored more without Rem Pitlick...and I don't think the defense on Bowling Green and Michigan State was that much better than that of the Gophers. But if you want to blame the defense...I have nothing else to add.

                      This still has nothing to do with the original point. The Gophers have had many great prospects coming in and most have had a mark on the program. Casey Mittelstadt's broader impact on these couple of years was almost nothing...in part because he left after one year forcing us to fill his slot training in another first year player.
                      Last edited by 5mn_Major; 03-27-2018, 12:06 PM.
                      Go Gophers!

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                        KFAN reporting signs are pointing to Motzko being the guy..
                        AF 99

                        M-A-V-E-R-I-C-K-S, MAVERICKS, MAVERICKS, GOOOOO STATE!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                          Still don't buy it. No, CMs performance was not due to smaller goalie pads twenty years ago. Top scorer Kyle Connor had 71 points last year and leading scorer Peter Sjena had 79 points in Vanek's 2003.
                          The leading scorer this year had 60, not 71 and Sejna had 82 according to this site. So that'd be a ~36% increase from 33 -> 45. This is also ignoring all other variables, UMN had the hardest strength of schedule this year, time on ice differences, that whole power play thing you still haven't addressed, quality of linemates (yes Mike Reilly is a lot better than Steve Johnson at creating offense), the system being employed, and I'm sure I'm missing a few things. I would imagine Bjugstad would score significantly less if you put him on this team since he scored a ton of his points on the power play. If they put him on his wrong hand side for an entire year even moreso.

                          And other NCAA freshmen this year scored more without Rem Pitlick...and I don't think the defense on Bowling Green and Michigan State was that much better than that of the Gophers. But if you want to blame the defense...I have nothing else to add.
                          I have no idea what Bowling Green has to do with anything but Michigan State basically formed one super line with Lewandowski on the wing and likely gave them a ton of TOI due to their lack of depth, at least that's my educated guess. They also didn't have a bottom 10 power play.
                          Last edited by trixR4kids; 03-27-2018, 12:24 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                            Originally posted by MavHockey14 View Post
                            KFAN reporting signs are pointing to Motzko being the guy..
                            SCSU fans will now start saying, "We didn't want him anymore anyways."

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Bonin21 View Post
                              SCSU fans will now start saying, "We didn't want him anymore anyways."
                              The hell we will.
                              "If you leave ignorance and stupidity alone, ignorance and stupidity will think it's ok."
                              -Gallagher

                              R.I.P.
                              Grandpa G. ~ Feb 11, 1918-Oct. 6, 1999
                              Grandma ~ Jan 2004
                              Dad ~ Nov. 4, 1958-April 21, 2008
                              Grandpa S. ~ June 21, 1932-November 11, 2013

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Minnesota Golden Gophers Season Off-Season Thread 2018

                                Originally posted by Bonin21 View Post
                                SCSU fans will now start saying, "We didn't want him anymore anyways."
                                Nope. This will suck. It will suck almost as much as losing to the #16 seed in the first round of the NCAA's and nearly as much as losing to the #15 seed in the first round two years prior.

                                Hope he doesn't leave but I wouldn't blame him.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X