Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

[geezer]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Not really. Easier recruiting because you are drawing from a much larger pool of kids who grew up watching the Gophers, better facilities was redundant and the result of a misread on my part, and more resources extends well beyond facilities. I thought my post was a rather level-headed reply and I stand by it (minus the clear misread on the one point).

I was thinking more that
facilities=facilities
money=resources and
tradition (is a key to) recruiting - maybe the biggest factor other than the staff itself.

Now, by "money" he may have meant just the coach's salary, which would be a different point than "resources" (I mean, what you don't have you can buy). But I think the main thing that ol' Tipsy didn't clearly point out as an advantage is PROGRAM PRESTIGE. I think it's the main advantage and will be the biggest draw to the next coach (although it also is closely tied to both tradition and recruiting advantages).

[4four4]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

How much of an influence will Don have in saying who replaces him? He's already said publicly that he thinks Guentzel would make a great head coach and that he's familiar with it there. The fact that he's a alumni and has public support from Don makes me think he's already been the chosen one.

I was told he might not have the right personality. "He's a good player's coach", "Great guy!", "Nothing like Don". We will see but it wouldn't surprise me if he did land the position.

[Tipsy McStagger]

I was thinking more that
facilities=facilities
money=resources and
tradition (is a key to) recruiting - maybe the biggest factor other than the staff itself.

Now, by "money" he may have meant just the coach's salary, which would be a different point than "resources" (I mean, what you don't have you can buy). But I think the main thing that ol' Tipsy didn't clearly point out as an advantage is PROGRAM PRESTIGE. I think it's the main advantage and will be the biggest draw to the next coach (although it also is closely tied to both tradition and recruiting advantages).

Tradition is prestige. Unless you think the name itself has prestige. If that's the case, Minnesota may as well be Ohio State.

[Koho]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

I was thinking more that
facilities=facilities
money=resources and
tradition (is a key to) recruiting - maybe the biggest factor other than the staff itself.

Now, by "money" he may have meant just the coach's salary, which would be a different point than "resources" (I mean, what you don't have you can buy). But I think the main thing that ol' Tipsy didn't clearly point out as an advantage is PROGRAM PRESTIGE. I think it's the main advantage and will be the biggest draw to the next coach (although it also is closely tied to both tradition and recruiting advantages).

Well you've got the amount of program exposure too, that plays into recruiting.

And posting how the teams will be next year (one year out doesn't compare to what might happen for the rest of one's career) and comparing how the conferences were in past years (which for the B1G isn't likely to be the average going forward) is being a little selective under the CONS.

[Koho]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Tradition is prestige. Unless you think the name itself has prestige. If that's the case, Minnesota may as well be Ohio State.

Since you like definitions:
Tradition: the transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being passed on in this way
Prestige: widespread respect and admiration felt for someone or something on the basis of a perception of their achievements or quality

[ticapnews]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Prestige: a movie starring Christian Bale, Hugh Jackman and Scarlett Johansson.

[mnstate0fhockey]

I was thinking more that
facilities=facilities
money=resources and
tradition (is a key to) recruiting - maybe the biggest factor other than the staff itself.

Now, by "money" he may have meant just the coach's salary, which would be a different point than "resources" (I mean, what you don't have you can buy). But I think the main thing that ol' Tipsy didn't clearly point out as an advantage is PROGRAM PRESTIGE. I think it's the main advantage and will be the biggest draw to the next coach (although it also is closely tied to both tradition and recruiting advantages).

Fair enough. I would think that the recruiting advantages would be pretty big too, but clearly it hasn't stopped Motzko from doing a stellar job of recruiting at SCSU. Either the recruiting advantage that MN has isn't what it once was because of the coaching situation or other factors.

If the recruiting gap closed because of coaching, imagine what Motzko could do at Minnesota. If the recruiting gap has closed because of other factors like SCSU, UMD, MSU, and BSU upgrading facilities and investing more in their programs, then there just isn't as much inherent advantage as their used to be.

I am guessing it's a bit of both, but who knows.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

There is a difference between prestige and history. Being a cos h in the big ten has prestige (much due to other sports) but there isn’t much history.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

posting how the teams will be next year (one year out doesn't compare to what might happen for the rest of one's career)

One year doesn't compare to what might happen for the rest of ones career, but when you are in your late 50's, you are probably not trying to completely rebuild the roster to your liking.

and comparing how the conferences were in past years (which for the B1G isn't likely to be the average going forward) is being a little selective under the CONS.

Oh, so despite the NCHC getting WAY more teams into the tournament every year until now, and having 7 Frozen Four teams to 1 for the B1G, and having the last two national champs plus a good chance of having the national champ this year, the verdict is still out on which conference is better?

Still waiting for your argument of the Gopher job being the top one in college hockey.

[Koho]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Still waiting for your argument of the Gopher job being the top one in college hockey.

Not worth the time. Most people would agree, not just Gopher fans. Maybe 4 other schools nationally in the same level.

[UMD21]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Pierce at Michigan and a coaching shakeup at Minnesota I think will really strengthen the programs. Even with more success for Minnesota, I still don’t see it helping their attendance too much. I predict the B1G will be a boon to programs like OSU, Notre Dame and Michigan (and Penn rising up from the ashes), but hurting Minnesota in the long run. The “which conference is better” argument is stupid so let’s just say Hockey East is the best. We’ll see come April whether a B1G team wins a championship, or all fail to make Frozen Four

[Koho]

Re: Don Lucia steps down as Minnesota Gophers coach

Fair enough. I would think that the recruiting advantages would be pretty big too, but clearly it hasn't stopped Motzko from doing a stellar job of recruiting at SCSU. Either the recruiting advantage that MN has isn't what it once was because of the coaching situation or other factors.

Other factors = trend for recruiting age is big factor in why MN doesn't have the edge in skilled players and why this is the first year since like 1968 since MN, UND, BC, WI are all not in the NCAA. All of these schools, like a handful of others, used to really have an edge when most kids committed at 18 or 19, when you had a better idea how they would do in college. It used to be they would announce the MR. Hockey winner and some time after that he usually committed to MN. Now the (formerly?) Power schools are getting the 15-16 yr olds that look like they will be the top players at 19, but way more of them plateau before college than do kids picked at 18. Schools that aren't getting as many 15 yr old commits are mixing in the older kids who were passed on when younger, but continued to improve and may now be a better player than the kid who was leading the state in points at 15. Hard to pass on that 15 yr old stud when you might be passing on the next Vanek or Boeser. But it also doesn't leave space for that late bloomer. The result is more parity. I think Gopher fans who think the right coach will put them back to making the NCAA 9 of 10 year and in the final four every few years need to accept this may be the new reality. And people who talk about the Defense's performance this year as evidence Guentzel maybe isn't as good as people used to think he was, should recognize that these kids committed fairly young and with high expectation (how many are drafted?). Maybe they just plateaued a little, regardless of what a coach does. Hard to judge a coach on the performance in one year.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Pierce at Michigan and a coaching shakeup at Minnesota I think will really strengthen the programs. Even with more success for Minnesota, I still don’t see it helping their attendance too much. I predict the B1G will be a boon to programs like OSU, Notre Dame (and Penn rising up from the ashes), but hurting Minnesota in the long run. The “which conference is better” argument is stupid so let’s just say Hockey East is the best. We’ll see come April whether a B1G team wins a championship, or all fail to make Frozen Four

In the short term I agree with you, a coaching change won't completely solve the attendance problems. But in the long term Minnesota will be fine. I've been a Gopher fan since the 70's and many of the programs in the B10 used to be among Minnesota's biggest rivals. It takes time.

[mnstate0fhockey]

Other factors = trend for recruiting age is big factor in why MN doesn't have the edge in skilled players and why this is the first year since like 1968 since MN, UND, BC, WI are all not in the NCAA. All of these schools, like a handful of others, used to really have an edge when most kids committed at 18 or 19, when you had a better idea how they would do in college. It used to be they would announce the MR. Hockey winner and some time after that he usually committed to MN. Now the (formerly?) Power schools are getting the 15-16 yr olds that look like they will be the top players at 19, but way more of them plateau before college than do kids picked at 18. Schools that aren't getting as many 15 yr old commits are mixing in the older kids who were passed on when younger, but continued to improve and may now be a better player than the kid who was leading the state in points at 15. Hard to pass on that 15 yr old stud when you might be passing on the next Vanek or Boeser. But it also doesn't leave space for that late bloomer. The result is more parity. I think Gopher fans who think the right coach will put them back to making the NCAA 9 of 10 year and in the final four every few years need to accept this may be the new reality. And people who talk about the Defense's performance this year as evidence Guentzel maybe isn't as good as people used to think he was, should recognize that these kids committed fairly young and with high expectation (how many are drafted?). Maybe they just plateaued a little, regardless of what a coach does. Hard to judge a coach on the performance in one year.

Great post Koho. Completely agree with you.

[Tipsy McStagger]

Not worth the time. Most people would agree, not just Gopher fans. Maybe 4 other schools nationally in the same level.

Most people would not agree. See, I can do that too.