Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #91
    Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

    Originally posted by vicb View Post
    LOL. Good one. I am not now or have I ever been an athlete. Love to play all the major sports growing up for fun with my friends. When I went to Clarkson, it was the first time I ever ice skated and after those years it was the last time.
    Were you part of intramural hockey at Clarkson? Is intramural hockey a big deal there? Perhaps surprisingly, it is at Ohio State.

    Granted OSU has a huge community of students & staff to draw from. But when I arrived I was pleasantly surprised that there were 4 levels of play, A through D. (D was the beginner league.) Also 2 separate seasons, Winter Quarter & Spring Quarter. I honestly don't know if OSU has maintained that. The two seasons are probably gone as OSU is now on Semesters. But given our geographic location and relatively mild winters, I thought the program was outstanding.

    Originally posted by miker View Post
    HUGOOOOO BELANGER!!
    OK, we still need to hear this story. If it's fit for a public forum, that is.

    Originally posted by FireKnight View Post
    ...My fondest memories of Clarkson hockey and what I think makes it different from a lot of the big schools is how close the campus is as a group. The guys who played hockey when I was there were top level players, in some of the most successful seasons in their history. However, they didn't really walk around like big men on campus. They'd talk with you, hang out with you, and remember your name. They'd sit down and have a beer with you at the bar (if of age and out of season, of course). To this day, I'll run into guys that played during my time there and they'll remember me by name and have a conversation. That small town atmosphere is what attracted me to Clarkson and what keeps me going back there over 20 years after graduation.
    I also have a D-3 school on my resume, and I certainly know what you mean. At the same time, you'd be surprised how a huge university can be collection of small, closer knit groups. That's certainly true at the graduate level. And a specific sport or other activity can generate the same thing.

    Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
    Clarkson grad as well here. (late 80's). More details on the bell at Walker arena over the entrance to the ice for the visiting team (I think it was the TEK fraternity that was in charge of ringing that thing). at the start and end of each period that thing would br rung right over them as the entered/exited the ice...From my visits...i see the bell made it to cheel, but sadly it does not get rung. I agree that the players were one of us back then. They were in the dorms with us and in the same classes.
    Thanks for joining the conversation, and telling the story of the Bell. Congratulations on your National Title, of course.

    The "same classes" thing is probably what most divides the large school school experience from the small school experience. Most likely OSU students won't have athletes in their classes. And even if they do, the athletes might go unrecognized. With the obvious exception of the Football players...

    Originally posted by rochnycsc View Post
    My Best (and worst) Walker Arena memory is the 1981 NCAA Quarterfinals against Wisconsin. Clarkson College of Technology (CCT) the ECAC regular season champion was the #1 seed in the East and was arguably the #1 ranked team in the country with a 26–6–3 record. This was back when only 8 teams made the tourney and the quarterfinals were a 2 game aggregate series at the higher seeds rink, with the winners going to the semifinals in Duluth.
    CCT who hadn't made the NCAA's since 1970 was #1 in the East played #4 in the west Wisconsin, who received an at-large bid for finishing tied for second in the WCHA.
    CCT could score in bunches and thought they had finally found a reliable goalie in freshman Don Sylvestri. But some cracks had shown in their ECAC tourney loss to Providence.
    In game 1 Walker arena was packed to the rafters & Clarkson pummeled the Wisconsin net, but goaltender Marc Behrend stood on his head and UW won game1 3-2, shocking the Golden Knights.
    Game 2 was a classic, Wisconsin constantly answering every Clarkson goal and Behrend making key saves in the end to preserve a 6-6 tie, giving UW a 9-8 aggregate win.
    Wisconsin ended up easily beating Michigan Tech and then Minnesota in the final to take the title. Marc Behrend was the tourney MOP.
    Originally posted by vicb View Post
    I remember that series. Was talking with a buddy of mine who followed college hockey before that series. His comment to me was that Wisconsin deserved a higher seed in the West and that the National Championship would be decided by the winner of this series. He was spot on. That 1981 team was arguably the best in the history of Clarkson. Three All Americans in Bryan Cleaver, Ed Small and Sylvestri along with Steve Cruickshank the ECAC leading scorer & All American the following year. Sylvestri, Small and Cruickshank all made the 1980's ECAC All Decade Team.
    I remember the 1981 season well, and was actually in Duluth for the 1981 "Hockey Final Four." (The term Frozen Four didn't come along until much later.) Very interesting to hear the Clarkson perspective on this.

    From a Western point of view, that was the famous "Backdoor Badgers" team. UW was excellent all year, but shockingly lost in the first round of the WCHA Playoffs to Colorado College. All through the 1970's (and I believe earlier) if you lost in your league playoffs, you were done for the year. The WCHA & ECAC each produced two playoff champs, and those four teams went to the Final Four. The NCAA Playoff was expanded to 5 in 1979 to accommodate the CCHA. Then in 1981, the field grew to 8, and the at-large bid was born.

    There were no Pairwise calculations back in the day. It was not a given that a team's full body of work would be taken into account in at-large selections. There was a fair amount of sentiment in the West that by losing in the first round, UW had lost its chance to go to the national tournament that year. At the same time, there was also a fairly broad consensus that UW was one of the top two teams in the West, based on talent & regular season performance. I doubt that the exact rationale for the Badgers' seeding was ever publicly announced. But I've always believed it was a compromise between the two opposing viewpoints I've described.

    Anyhow, you can make the case that the 1981 Badgers were the first at-large team in NCAA Hockey History. That it produced a classic UW/Clarkson series is certainly fitting.
    Last edited by pgb-ohio; 03-21-2018, 10:12 PM.

    Comment


    • #92
      Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
      Were you part of intramural hockey at Clarkson? Is intramural hockey a big deal there? Perhaps surprisingly, it is at Ohio State.

      Granted OSU has a huge community of students & staff to draw from. But when I arrived I was pleasantly surprised that there were 4 levels of play, A through D. (D was the beginner league.) Also 2 separate seasons, Winter Quarter & Spring Quarter. I honestly don't know if OSU has maintained that. The two seasons are probably gone as OSU is now on Semesters. But given our geographic location and relatively mild winters, I thought the program was outstanding.

      OK, we still need to hear this story. If it's fit for a public forum, that is.

      I also have a D-3 school on my resume, and I certainly know what you mean. At the same time, you'd be surprised how a huge university can be collection of small, closer knit groups. That's certainly true at the graduate level. And a specific sport or other activity can generate the same thing.

      Thanks for joining the conversation, and telling the story of the Bell. Congratulations on your National Title, of course.

      The "same classes" thing is probably what most divides the large school school experience from the small school experience. Most likely OSU students won't have athletes in their classes. And even if they do, the athletes might go unrecognized. With the obvious exception of the Football players...



      I remember the 1981 season well, and was actually in Duluth for the 1981 "Hockey Final Four." (The term Frozen Four didn't come along until much later.) Very interesting to hear the Clarkson perspective on this.

      From a Western point of view, that was the famous "Backdoor Badgers" team. UW was excellent all year, but shockingly lost in the first round of the WCHA Playoffs to Colorado College. All through the 1970's (and I believe earlier) if you lost in your league playoffs, you were done for the year. The WCHA & ECAC each produced two playoff champs, and those four teams went to the Final Four. The NCAA Playoff was expanded to 5 in 1979 to accommodate the CCHA. Then in 1981, the field grew to 8, and the at-large bid was born.

      There were no Pairwise calculations back in the day. It was not a given that a team's full body of work would be taken into account in at-large selections. There was a fair amount of sentiment in the West that by losing in the first round, UW had lost its chance to go to the national tournament that year. At the same time, there was also a fairly broad consensus that UW was one of the top two teams in the West, based on talent & regular season performance. I doubt that the exact rationale for the Badgers' seeding was ever publicly announced. But I've always believed it was a compromise between the two opposing viewpoints I've described.

      Anyhow, you can make the case that the 1981 Badgers were the first at-large team in NCAA Hockey History. That it produced a classic UW/Clarkson series is certainly fitting.
      RPI in 1964. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 SLU.
      BU in 1966. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 Cornell.
      BU in 1971. 3rd place ECAC tournament over #2 Clarkson
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        RPI in 1964. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 SLU.
        BU in 1966. 3rd place ECAC advanced over #2 Cornell.
        BU in 1971. 3rd place ECAC tournament over #2 Clarkson
        Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

        But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?

        Comment


        • #94
          Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
          Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

          But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did certain schools decline the opportunity to participate?
          Until the PWR came out, it was the opinion of a lot of fans that the smoke filled room was in full use. There were a few years where the seedings were a bit head scratching.

          On the women's side the only questions have been some of the 1st round pairings to minimize travel.

          D3 men for a few years left heads scratching until some good investigative reporting by d3hockey figured out the process. Once you figured out the process, the selections made sense.
          Last edited by joecct; 03-22-2018, 06:54 AM.
          CCT '77 & '78
          4 kids
          5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
          1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

          ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
          - Benjamin Franklin

          Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

          I want to live forever. So far, so good.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

            Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
            Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

            But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?
            My recollection is that SLU declined in 1964. They had a barely over .500 league record. That was the year before I arrived at RPI, so I only recall what I read.
            sigpic

            Let's Go 'Tute!

            Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

            2012 Poser Of The Year

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

              Looking at the next couple of recruiting classes for Clarkson and Colgate, on paper at least, it looks like these two schools will be battling for the ECAC championship (and possibly NCAA championship) for the foreseeable future.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
                Didn't know that history. Before my time, I guess. Regardless, I am wrong about UW being the first at-large team.

                But questions remain. Why were those selections made? Were schools passed over by "smoke filled room" decisions? Or did schools sometimes decline the opportunity to participate?
                Back in prehistoric times before the Web there was this thing called a 'listserv'. The simple explanation was if you were signed up for it you would get a copy of every email sent to it. There was one for college hockey. It was a very interesting group and they spent a lot of time trying to divine how the NC$$ picked teams for the tourney. There was a guy (He can reveal himself if he wants) who reverse engineered the process and created what we understand today to be PRW. Sometime after that (as I understand it) they officially agreed that this was pretty much how it was done and the process became less opaque.

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                  Originally posted by ne7minder View Post
                  Back in prehistoric times before the Web there was this thing called a 'listserv'. The simple explanation was if you were signed up for it you would get a copy of every email sent to it. There was one for college hockey. It was a very interesting group and they spent a lot of time trying to divine how the NC$$ picked teams for the tourney. There was a guy (He can reveal himself if he wants) who reverse engineered the process and created what we understand today to be PRW. Sometime after that (as I understand it) they officially agreed that this was pretty much how it was done and the process became less opaque.
                  So you're saying that this applies to the years we were discussing, meaning the 1960's and 1970's? I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'm not sure what the equivalent to e-mail would have been in those decades. But more to the point, until joecct pointed out the 3 exceptions, I wasn't aware that on-ice playoff results were ever overridden in the four team tournament years.

                  Then again, I've already admitted that I have no first hand knowledge of the NCAA tournaments of the 1960's. What little I know is just a matter of history. Guess I'm just not old enough. Now there's something I don't get to say very often.

                  Your description does ring true for the 1980's forward.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                    Originally posted by pgb-ohio View Post
                    So you're saying that this applies to the years we were discussing, meaning the 1960's and 1970's? I'd be surprised if that was the case. I'm not sure what the equivalent to e-mail would have been in those decades. But more to the point, until joecct pointed out the 3 exceptions, I wasn't aware that on-ice playoff results were ever overridden in the four team tournament years.
                    The equivalent to email in those decades was email. The reverse engineering of PWR came about in the mid 1990s, if I remember correctly. My understanding is that the NCAA selection committee had been using it for a few years at that point, but not more than that. Before 1990, it was pretty much the smoke filled room.

                    Comment


                    • Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                      Originally posted by Still Eeyore View Post
                      The equivalent to email in those decades was email. The reverse engineering of PWR came about in the mid 1990s, if I remember correctly. My understanding is that the NCAA selection committee had been using it for a few years at that point, but not more than that. Before 1990, it was pretty much the smoke filled room.
                      Agreed but I understood the reverse eng was early 90s and that it tracked behavior at least in the mid to late 80s. I could be mistaken as I have never asked for details.

                      As for email, I sat at the console of a front-end processor in 1980 and exchanged messages with people across the country via a private network set up by the company I worked for. We didn't call it email and it wasn't the Internet but it would look familiar to people except no pretty graphical interface. Also, while at NASA, I attended a global video conference over the Internet in 1992, this stuff is a lot older than a lot of people understand

                      Comment


                      • Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                        Appreciate the clarifications. The various recollections seem to mesh after all.

                        It is good to recall (or learn) that the technology goes back farther than many people think. But I see no reason to believe that this had anything to do with the Eastern selections in '64, '66 & '71.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                          The history of the Bell...
                          http://www.potsdamgreeks.com/2013/02...ckey-bell.html
                          http://cuonline.clarkson.edu/s/1680/...id=2&pgid=1970

                          as Ken Dryden said in response to, "Was there anything you disliked about college hockey?"

                          "Yes, that **** bell at Clarkson."


                          Just to concur with what others have said here regarding the small college feel... I remember from the '90-91 team hanging out at the Bali Hai many times during the week or their Riverside Apartments ... the only problem with the hockey players - they got the better choice of Potsdam St girls! :-D

                          The bars downtown at the time were BackStreets (Nickel drafts!!!), McDuff's, Bali Hai and Maxfields (had to be of "legal" age there though). Sergi's where you got the "pizza roll" after a night at McDuff's, and hoped you didn't freeze on the way back to the dorms (across the bridge was bitter)...or bite into the aluminum foil!

                          Hugo Belanger - one of the all Clarkson greats (#3 all time scoring http://www.clarksonathletics.com/doc...%20Scorers.pdf), a high flying high scoring French-Canadian, there was excitement every time he got the puck on his stick (similar to when Marchant or Jarmo Kekalainen scored). Hugo Belanger finished with 1011 gp in minor hockey and 1465 pts. The 90-91 team was Craig Conroy's freshman year, Mark Green one of the best slapshots ever, Scott Thomas, Steve Dubinsky. I remember the lesser known players almost better- Guy Sanderson, Mikko Tavi, Shawn Fotheringham and Marty D'Orsonnens.


                          Yes...it's great to hear about the UW history (playing next year right?), and explains why I knew we didn't like them at all, but had no clue why back then.

                          One more thing.. I grew up about an hour from Potsdam (like most students back then, which makes it interesting that the forum members here were not "locals" lol), and had it narrowed down to Cornell and RIT, but really, there was no way I was going anywhere but Clarkson. Just one of those small town things..
                          Last edited by miker; 03-26-2018, 01:48 PM.
                          Golden Knights Roundtable

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post
                            My recollection is that SLU declined in 1964. They had a barely over .500 league record. That was the year before I arrived at RPI, so I only recall what I read.
                            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1964...key_Tournament
                            CCT '77 & '78
                            4 kids
                            5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                            1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                            ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                            - Benjamin Franklin

                            Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                            I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                              Originally posted by vicb View Post
                              On the weekends you go downtown to drink, listen to Double Axle (I wonder if that band is still playing there), dance with the girls from Potsdam State to "Stairway to Heaven"
                              yes Vic!
                              http://www.doubleaxel.com/
                              http://www.adirondackdailyenterprise...tle-wolfstock/


                              They played at my high school dances back in the 80s as well, so Potsdam seemed like the place for me.
                              Golden Knights Roundtable

                              Comment


                              • Re: Who will be the NC$$ Champ?

                                Originally posted by FireKnight View Post
                                I first visited Potsdam in 1991 and while on campus, I got to see the opening of Cheel Arena and a Clarkson win over Boston College.
                                Very cool FK! I was there against a exhibition against a Russian Select team (Knights got smoked), and the BC game.
                                Golden Knights Roundtable

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X