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  • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

    A few more points:

    1) Kep no offense but again you're refusing to acknowledge the whims of the electorate over the last 40 years. You continue to harp on the Dems sold out meme since 1980, apparently completely oblivious that the Dems nominated arch liberals in 1984 and 1988 and won about 11 states over TWO elections! Clearly, arch liberalism wasn't selling with the voters particularly idiot baby boomers. Had they gone arch liberal in 1992 they would have received a similar @ ssbeating and Breyer and RBG would have been supplanted by two Scalia wannabes. Sometimes it helps to spend time in reality, Kep, not how you wish history should be re-written.

    2) Saying "economic liberalism" is the cure for the problems of non-whites smacks of elitism that even I can see from the back of my limo, and that's saying something. Non-whites, particularly, blacks are concerned that they and their kids are going to get gunned down while unarmed at a traffic stop. Sanders to my knowledge really made no connection with that angst beyond the vague promise that taxing the rich back to the Stone Age would help them out with all that. Oh, and trix the Dem primary skews non-white as a whole. I think 40% of primary Dem voters are in fact non-white. This is going to be a major factor to help determine who the 2020 nominee is at it helped pick from the 2008 and 2016 nominees.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

    "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

    Comment


    • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

      Originally posted by Rover View Post
      A few more points:

      1) Kep no offense but again you're refusing to acknowledge the whims of the electorate over the last 40 years. You continue to harp on the Dems sold out meme since 1980, apparently completely oblivious that the Dems nominated arch liberals in 1984 and 1988 and won about 11 states over TWO elections! Clearly, arch liberalism wasn't selling with the voters particularly idiot baby boomers. Had they gone arch liberal in 1992 they would have received a similar @ ssbeating and Breyer and RBG would have been supplanted by two Scalia wannabes. Sometimes it helps to spend time in reality, Kep, not how you wish history should be re-written.

      2) Saying "economic liberalism" is the cure for the problems of non-whites smacks of elitism that even I can see from the back of my limo, and that's saying something. Non-whites, particularly, blacks are concerned that they and their kids are going to get gunned down while unarmed at a traffic stop. Sanders to my knowledge really made no connection with that angst beyond the vague promise that taxing the rich back to the Stone Age would help them out with all that. Oh, and trix the Dem primary skews non-white as a whole. I think 40% of primary Dem voters are in fact non-white. This is going to be a major factor to help determine who the 2020 nominee is at it helped pick from the 2008 and 2016 nominees.
      Until they start accepting that Susan Sarandon won and Bernie voters were so butthurt they voted for Dump they'll never learn. In addition to figuring out how to win without being able to even communicate with the 33% they need to figure out how not to **** off the "all or nothing" Democrats that get so depressed their beloved candidate didn't win they throw the election.

      I'm willing to bet they don't figure this out. And I'm willing to bet it costs the Dems valuable seats this November. Everyone will call it a wave but it won't be as large as it needs to be. You see the seeds sewn already in the way Lamb ran and won.
      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

      Comment


      • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

        1) Your evidence is 30 years old. As you say, electorates change. Since the great Theft of 2006, people have been ready to put the Plutes in their place. The Tea Party and Dump are how voters on the right responded to this -- it was dumb and misdirected and self-harming, but it was a response. Liz and Bernie are the response on the left so far. We need a solid and charismatic leader committed to those principles who also lives in the real world. Gavin Newsom is my current flavor of the month. Our views are not mutually exclusive, Rover.

        2) Blacks are treated like sh-t because blacks are poor and the poor are treated like sh-t. Break the back of economic inequality and we'll break the back of racial inequality. It does nobody any good to have a system where rich black women can treat poor white men like garbage, and that's what the identity movement of the last 30 years in lefty academia has aimed for.
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        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
          Susan Sarandon
          Can we please have some perspective here and realize that Susan Sarandon is one stupid person? The number of people who think as she can comfortably fit in Lynah Rink with room to spare, and they all either inhabit Hollywood or the editorial page of Jacobin.

          Whenever I read people whining about Susan Sarandon I see Flag under his bed hiding from The Globalists.
          Last edited by Kepler; 04-09-2018, 09:12 AM.
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          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            1) Your evidence is 30 years old. As you say, electorates change. Since the great Theft of 2006, people have been ready to put the Plutes in their place. The Tea Party and Dump are how voters on the right responded to this -- it was dumb and misdirected and self-harming, but it was a response. Liz and Bernie are the response on the left so far. We need a solid and charismatic leader committed to those principles who also lives in the real world. Gavin Newsom is my current flavor of the month. Our views are not mutually exclusive, Rover.

            2) Blacks are treated like sh-t because blacks are poor and the poor are treated like sh-t. Break the back of economic inequality and we'll break the back of racial inequality. It does nobody any good to have a system where rich black women can treat poor white men like garbage, and that's what the identity movement of the last 30 years in lefty academia has aimed for.
            #1 - you've repeatedly said Dems have sold out for the last 40 years. Go back and search your own posts. Now its been since 2006? I'll ask again, do you think a more liberal pol than Dukakis would have won in 1988?????

            #2 - No offense, but your point is absurd. If people weren't poor, there'd be no racial discrimination? Really?
            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

            Comment


            • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Can we please have some perspective here and realize that Susan Sarandon is one stupid person? The number of people who think as she can comfortably fit in Lynah Rink with room to spare, and they all either inhabit Hollywood or the editorial page of Jacobin.

              Whenever I read people whining about Susan Sarandon I see Flag under his bed hiding from The Globalists.
              You underestimate how many of those were in the electorate. Susan Sarandon is the poster child for all the butthurt Bernouts that voted for Trump.
              **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

              Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
              Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

              Comment


              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                Originally posted by Rover View Post
                #1 - you've repeatedly said Dems have sold out for the last 40 years. Go back and search your own posts. Now its been since 2006? I'll ask again, do you think a more liberal pol than Dukakis would have won in 1988?????

                #2 - No offense, but your point is absurd. If people weren't poor, there'd be no racial discrimination? Really?
                You don't understand either of my points or you're being deliberately obtuse.

                1. The Dems didn't sell out in 1988, they recognized political reality. They never really sold out at all, they just became a batter who was hit badly by a pitch and now can't crowd the plate because of fear. Since at least 2006 and probably earlier, the underlying political reality has changed but the Dems are so compromised by living in their pundit bubble with other white collar liberals that they either have no incentive to change (the cynical view) or they have no understanding that they can finally push again for their economic ideals (the kinder view). My argument is let's not argue over whether the Dems were craven or just lost the thread, and let's not argue about how many years we've missed the opportunity. Let's start acting now.

                2. There will always be racism. But the reason blacks are institutionally biased against by law enforcement and the justice system in general is because in America we treat the poor as garbage. Because black poverty is so high, black skin has become a prejudicial signifier of poverty and thus a license to mistreat. Reduce poverty and especially reduce black poverty so that black skin is no longer associated in the public mind with poverty, and cops and juries and judges will no longer treat black people as poor-until-proven-otherwise. And along the way economic reforms will also reduce the de jure mistreatment of the poor as a whole.

                My arguments are not the strawmen you create. Please try to engage with what I'm saying rather than just trying to score points. This isn't Kos -- this is about meaning, not influence. So please argue honestly.
                Last edited by Kepler; 04-09-2018, 09:24 AM.
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                • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                  Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                  You underestimate how many of those were in the electorate. Susan Sarandon is the poster child for all the butthurt Bernouts that voted for Trump.
                  She's the poster child for a rhetorical creation to smear all economic liberals which is part of the larger effort to divide and conquer the left. Don't fall for it.

                  Assume I am the average Bernie supporter. Try thinking of them as me.
                  Cornell University
                  National Champion 1967, 1970
                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                  • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                    Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                    She's the poster child for a rhetorical creation to smear all economic liberals which is part of the larger effort to divide and conquer the left. Don't fall for it.

                    Assume I am the average Bernie supporter. Try thinking of them as me.
                    Again. My voting block doesn't need convincing. We're going to vote for whoever the nominee is. You apparently need to convince yourself, or the others like you that take their ball and go home when they don't like playing the game anymore.
                    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                    Comment


                    • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      Assume I am the average Bernie supporter. Try thinking of them as me.
                      We are, and that's why Bernie supporters are taking so much heat. You (representing Bernie voters) and you personally will never live down putting Trump in the White House in 2016 by actively voting FOR him instead of even just staying home. Little Ralphie Nader has rightfully been a pariah since 2000. I fear Sanders and his people are going the same way, and I'm hopeful someone else (Warren maybe) can pick up the mantle of some of the ideas without the God-complex that we're seeing out of you guys!
                      Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                      Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                      "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                      Comment


                      • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                        Again. My voting block doesn't need convincing. We're going to vote for whoever the nominee is. You apparently need to convince yourself, or the others like you that take their ball and go home when they don't like playing the game anymore.
                        Except this is bullsh-t. You literally do not know what you are talking about.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                        Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

                        Comment


                        • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          Except this is bullsh-t. You literally do not know what you are talking about.
                          Scoobs is right and you're wrong. Can't state it any clearer than that.
                          Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                          Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                          "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                          Comment


                          • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                            1) Your evidence is 30 years old. As you say, electorates change. Since the great Theft of 2006, people have been ready to put the Plutes in their place. The Tea Party and Dump are how voters on the right responded to this -- it was dumb and misdirected and self-harming, but it was a response. Liz and Bernie are the response on the left so far. We need a solid and charismatic leader committed to those principles who also lives in the real world. Gavin Newsom is my current flavor of the month. Our views are not mutually exclusive, Rover.

                            2) Blacks are treated like sh-t because blacks are poor and the poor are treated like sh-t. Break the back of economic inequality and we'll break the back of racial inequality. It does nobody any good to have a system where rich black women can treat poor white men like garbage, and that's what the identity movement of the last 30 years in lefty academia has aimed for.
                            And again Newsome isnt going to run for President in 2020. He is going to win the California Governors race this fall and he isnt going to only do that for 2 years. (most of which he would spend then campaigning for President which would kill his chances) He will run in the future but it isnt now.
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              And again Newsome isnt going to run for President in 2020. He is going to win the California Governors race this fall and he isnt going to only do that for 2 years. (most of which he would spend then campaigning for President which would kill his chances) He will run in the future but it isnt now.
                              Gosh I love Gavin.

                              Comment


                              • Re: 2020 Democratic Challengers: Boogaloo

                                Originally posted by Kepler View Post

                                2. There will always be racism. But the reason blacks are institutionally biased against by law enforcement and the justice system in general is because in America we treat the poor as garbage. Because black poverty is so high, black skin has become a prejudicial signifier of poverty and thus a license to mistreat. Reduce poverty and especially reduce black poverty so that black skin is no longer associated in the public mind with poverty, and cops and juries and judges will no longer treat black people as poor-until-proven-otherwise. And along the way economic reforms will also reduce the de jure mistreatment of the poor as a whole.
                                Sorry but that is BS. That presumes that blacks with any sort of means dont face similar challenges to those that are poor. That is simply not true. Listen to famous black athletes and actors talk about how law enforcement treats them. Look at how Blacks with means (outside OJ) are treated by the justice system. Their money only helps so much...
                                "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                                -aparch

                                "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                                -INCH

                                Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                                -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                                Comment

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