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115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

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  • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

    Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    No, it's 100% accurate.
    Thank you. What Kep did would be akin to someone in 2008 (lets say a John Edwards supporter ) referring to Obama as Uncle Tom, then Buckwheat, and Michelle as Aunt Jamima and then claiming it had no racial implications. Its trying to belittle the person based on something (skin color, gender) that should be out of bounds. This will stay with Kep for the rest of his days and for a guy with a wife and family it was somewhat shocking to read. I personally wouldn't have thought fellow lefties would resort to misogyny as often as they did during that campaign much like how racism amongst conservatives was much more widespread than even I had considered.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

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    • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

      This is dumb. All of you.

      To say there wasn’t sexism by some of the Bernie bros is ridiculous.
      To say that Kepler is one of them or that he made sexist comments is just as stupid.
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      When the giraffes start building radio telescopes they can join too.
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      • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        Thank you. What Kep did would be akin to someone in 2008 (lets say a John Edwards supporter ) referring to Obama as Uncle Tom, then Buckwheat, and Michelle as Aunt Jamima and then claiming it had no racial implications.
        This is so obsolete it's risible. The solace is nobody with a functioning cerebral cortex thinks this tripe anymore, but it was pretty bad in the mid 80s through mid 90s when this type of person held sway in the universities and actual adults believed this stuff.

        One of the problems Hillary and her coterie had with the Democratic electorate is that this type of rhetoric is so ancient it just reinforced how out of touch she was. It was a case of "the 80s called and they want their identity fetish back." And obviously it turned off most of the country who rightly perceived it as reverse sexism at worst and cynical manipulative pandering at best.
        Last edited by Kepler; 03-30-2018, 09:19 AM.
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        • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

          Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
          This is dumb. All of you.

          To say there wasn’t sexism by some of the Bernie bros is ridiculous.
          To say that Kepler is one of them or that he made sexist comments is just as stupid.
          Not taking it that far. I don't think Kepler is racist or sexist. I think he's blind to how much of it really exists.
          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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          • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

            Originally posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
            This is dumb. All of you.

            To say there wasn’t sexism by some of the Bernie bros is ridiculous.
            To say that Kepler is one of them or that he made sexist comments is just as stupid.
            I'm sure I've made sexist comments sometime -- I'm a fifty year old man, I was born into that world. But Rover is trying to insinuate that my criticisms of Hillary were systematically sexist. That's a deliberate debate strategy to discredit one critic and create a chilling effect on others. It's rhetorical authoritarianism. F-ck that and f-ck him for playing that old, worn, haggard* card.

            * That was just for you, Rover. With kisses.
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            • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
              Not taking it that far. I don't think Kepler is racist or sexist. I think he's blind to how much of it really exists.
              Give me a number. For racism, I said 1% on the left, not zero. And I said 19% of the right. For sexism it's higher and for homophobia it's still depressingly high because of The Old Myth in the Sky.

              Nobody is arguing zero.
              Last edited by Kepler; 03-30-2018, 09:25 AM.
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              • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                Give me a number. For racism, I said 1% on the left, not zero. And I said 19% of the right. For sexism it's higher and for homophobia it's still depressingly high because of The Old Man in the Sky.

                Nobody is arguing zero.
                I would take all your numbers and raise them at least 10%,
                **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                  A long time ago I was in a heated political discussion with Bob Gray and wrote something that he took to be an insult to his family. I don't remember what exactly, but its not my intention to attack the man personally so I apologized in the thread to him which he graciously accepted. The point being everyone does something wrong sometimes. I personally admit I'm wrong about as often as Haley's Comet shows up, but when it happens you man up and do the right thing.

                  Kep, you engaged in sexist rhetoric in 2016 even though you aren't personally sexist. I don't think you actually have a problem with female candidates and women in general but your comments sure came across the wrong way regardless of your intent. So did many a Sanders supporter. Own it. Apologize and then move on. Really, its not that hard. I supported Hillary in 2008 and Obama won. If you can find an instance where I made fun of the man's skin color out there please post a link to it. I can save you the trouble though, as there's nothing to find.
                  Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                  Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                  "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                  Comment


                  • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                    Originally posted by Rover View Post
                    A long time ago I was in a heated political discussion with Bob Gray and wrote something that he took to be an insult to his family. I don't remember what exactly, but its not my intention to attack the man personally so I apologized in the thread to him which he graciously accepted. The point being everyone does something wrong sometimes. I personally admit I'm wrong about as often as Haley's Comet shows up, but when it happens you man up and do the right thing.

                    Kep, you engaged in sexist rhetoric in 2016. I'm assuming you don't actually have a problem with female candidates and women in general but your comments sure came across the wrong way regardless of your intent. So did many a Sanders supporter. Own it. Apologize and then move on. Really, its not that hard. I supported Hillary in 2008 and Obama won. If you can find an instance where I made fun of the man's skin color out there please post a link to it. I can save you the trouble though, as there's nothing to find.
                    Nope, and you're being a borderline creep at this moment for suggesting something that I don't think you actually believe. I'd say nice try but it's not nice at all, it's something I would expect from a Michelle Malkin or a Laura Ingraham.

                    She lost. Please, please, please get over it and start looking at tomorrow. We need your help and we don't have time for your bullsh-t.
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                    • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      She lost. Please, please, please get over it and start looking at tomorrow. We need your help and we don't have time for your bullsh-t.
                      No. Liberals need to learn. They haven't learned anything yet. And that, right there, is the crux of the problem.
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                      • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                        I would take all your numbers and raise them at least 10%,
                        Could be. I'm sure there are studies; we should do a lit review.
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                        • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                          No. Liberals need to learn. They haven't learned anything yet. And that, right there, is the crux of the problem.
                          Let's be specific.

                          1. Learn what?
                          2. And what actions are possible given that knowledge?
                          3. And how does that affect strategy going forward?

                          It seems to me you are saying don't run women because the country is sexist and they'll lose by definition. I don't accept that and I don't think I'm being naive. I fully agree there are large portions of the electorate who would not vote for a woman precisely because she is a woman, but I also believe (without any peer-review data) that the vast majority of those voters are already straight ticket Republicans, as one would expect from reactionaries.

                          I can think of one group that's an exception: black fundamentalist Christians. They do seem to have been infected by the same "the man is the master" Biblical argle bargle as the other Thumpers. But I'm thinkin' they also don't really have a choice: they aren't going to vote for the party that literally is wishing them dead from cops and wars and abysmal poverty.
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                          • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                            Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                            No. Liberals need to learn. They haven't learned anything yet. And that, right there, is the crux of the problem.
                            Time will tell. Its possible the left (defined as anybody from the center all the way over to the vegan co-op) has learned for the 2nd time in 16 years the brutal lesson that sitting out elections and handing total power over to the GOP is a fuking disaster. I can't say one way or the other. Even if Dems rise up in 2020 and send Chump packing, will they then come back in 2022 or will they continue to not do mid-terms when their party is in the WH? Will they re-elect a Dem and then sit out the general election after 8 years? Again, don't know. Republicans will continue to get more and more extreme. 10 years from now whoever the GOP nominee is will make Chump look like Eisenhower. Its on all of the left to keep up the fight.
                            Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

                            Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

                            "I've never seen so much reason and bullsh*t contained in ONE MAN."

                            Comment


                            • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              Give me a number. For racism, I said 1% on the left, not zero. And I said 19% of the right. For sexism it's higher and for homophobia it's still depressingly high because of The Old Myth in the Sky.

                              Nobody is arguing zero.
                              If this were an estimation of intent, we would be discussing express and implied intent. I have no way of knowing, but I'd guess the numbers are quite a bit higher for both racism and sexism if you take into account prejudices which affect the choices people make but which are less "overt." And I suspect you guys already made an effort to define what you call "racism" and "sexism," taking into account what might be just called biases. But it may be that you all are looking at different parts of the elephant here.

                              It's a worthwhile discussion, though--especially if it gets our danders up a little.
                              Last edited by burd; 03-30-2018, 09:39 AM.

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                              • Re: 115th Congress - Fantastik! Try to remember we vote in November.

                                Originally posted by burd View Post
                                If this were an estimation of intent, we would be discussing express and implied intent. I have no way of knowing, but I'd guess the numbers are quite a bit higher for both racism and sexism if you take into account prejudices which affect the choices people make but which are less "overt." And I suspect you guys already made an effort to define what you call "racism" and "sexism," taking into account what might be just called biases. But it may be that you all are looking at different parts of the elephant here.

                                It's a worthwhile discussion, though--especially if it gets our danders up a little.
                                As Old Pio would say, the flack is thickest over the target.

                                My 1/19 came from a back of the envelope guess that the nation's sexism is 10%. If it's 30% those numbers are 3/57.

                                Good point that sexism and racism and homophobia are not binary -- they are spectra, and everybody falls somewhere from shall we say {-1.0.. 1.0} (where the negative numbers are the reverse of the typical bigotry -- yes, there are people who hate men and whites and straights, although not nearly the number or with the intensity that those poor victims imagine.

                                The resulting relation of the intensity of these bigotries would look more like a contour map than a simple line.
                                Last edited by Kepler; 03-30-2018, 09:44 AM.
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