Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

How much of the end result to you put on the coach vs the player?

We had an All-American transfer in, when we had a goalie coach, and he turned in a pretty average year.

By the time that they get to this level, is there really much that a dedicated coach can do in day-to-day practice sessions that is going to make an impact? I think having Cons on the staff and having him available to review film with the guys will help. Do the players need more than that, or is it just time to get out there and show what you are capable of doing?

Take this all with a grain of salt...I've never played hockey, I've never coached hockey, I've never had a family member play hockey...I'm a fan in the stands.

Connelly was on the staff last year and we saw how that went. Cutting the staff by half on a position that has been in the bottom 10% of NCAA hockey, sounds like trouble to me. We will see in a week.

Also, I know Howie was famous for breaking down the goalies and making them restart and learn his way. Not saying that always works, but look at the results he achieved over more than three decades....

[sunprairie]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Connelly was on the staff last year and we saw how that went. Cutting the staff by half on a position that has been in the bottom 10% of NCAA hockey, sounds like trouble to me. We will see in a week.

Also, I know Howie was famous for breaking down the goalies and making them restart and learn his way. Not saying that always works, but look at the results he achieved over more than three decades....

I think that might be the key here. UW was spoiled with Howard. And while folks are bemoaning the decision to simply not have A goalie coach, we might be looking back at what Howard specifically accomplished and not be asking the right question - i.e. are we actually still bemoaning the fact that we can't specifically have Howard? Seriously, it was a rarity to have someone of his specific talents here in Wisconsin able to devote the time and energy in a volunteer capacity to help generations of goalies achieve greatness. (Seriously, the whole concept of volunteer coaching at the D-1 athletic level is the real issue here. If you are stuck filling that position with someone who is in your city AND has the willingness and career flexibility to give up that kind of time, you are kind of boxed into a corner on who you can recruit to fill that role.) And, I think we saw last year that having even by all measures a pretty good goalie coach in that position doesn't equal the results that a specialized (and rare) person like Howard can bring. I'm guessing that is what went into Granato's decision here. If the option was a person who was simply a "goalie coach" in name only vs. having a guy like Winchester to come into a locker room to work with a young, but on paper supremely talented group of guys, Winchester's role might have been the better bet in that scenario. Would it be better to have a Bill Howard-level goalie coach vs. Winchester playing the role he will? Probably. But, I'm guessing the odds of finding that level of goalie coach under the parameters that the NCAA sets for volunteer coaches is pretty slim.

[WiscTJK]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

My point in bringing up Howie was making sure KaMiGo understood that there are/were ways to improve at the collegiate level. But you make good points there.

I agree with you that a paid fourth coach seems reasonable to everyone except the NCAAholes.

[MadCityRich]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Like I mentioned before, goaltending is as skilled a position as there is in hockey. Unlike 40 years ago, you don't put the kid in net that cannot skate; ask any coach (and I don't mean a youth dad hack), goalies have to be some of the best skaters. Not having a goalie coach is disturbing. Part of being a "tendie" coach is KNOWING the goalie. When Hayton came on board, I'm sure Sanger knew nothing about him (except for some video) and couldn't help him when he struggled. Howie, like any good goalie coach, would recognize flaws in a goalie and straighten him out. No different than a QB or pitching coach noticing something wrong with a throwing motion.

[solovsfett]

Like I mentioned before, goaltending is as skilled a position as there is in hockey. Unlike 40 years ago, you don't put the kid in net that cannot skate; ask any coach (and I don't mean a youth dad hack), goalies have to be some of the best skaters. Not having a goalie coach is disturbing. Part of being a "tendie" coach is KNOWING the goalie. When Hayton came on board, I'm sure Sanger knew nothing about him (except for some video) and couldn't help him when he struggled. Howie, like any good goalie coach, would recognize flaws in a goalie and straighten him out. No different than a QB or pitching coach noticing something wrong with a throwing motion.

Yes!

And what’s more is guys like Richter, CUJO and I think Carey would come back in the summers to get their “ Howie fix”

[sunprairie]

Like I mentioned before, goaltending is as skilled a position as there is in hockey. Unlike 40 years ago, you don't put the kid in net that cannot skate; ask any coach (and I don't mean a youth dad hack), goalies have to be some of the best skaters. Not having a goalie coach is disturbing. Part of being a "tendie" coach is KNOWING the goalie. When Hayton came on board, I'm sure Sanger knew nothing about him (except for some video) and couldn't help him when he struggled. Howie, like any good goalie coach, would recognize flaws in a goalie and straighten him out. No different than a QB or pitching coach noticing something wrong with a throwing motion.

Again, though, where are you going to find a goalie coach like Howard, who is both in Madison and is willing/able to do this work for free? And, if the only option is a goalie coach who is not that special breed, then is it worth having them just because they are supposedly a goalie coach?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

I've said this before but it's not just that Howie was a great goalie guru. He held camps every year all over North America that elite young goalies would all come to year after year. The very best of the best, and the kids that practiced and learned Howie's methods, he would then recruit. That is how he produced a string of superstars. He was great but he also worked with a lot of really talented, hand selected kids. The NCAA changed the rules, and that was the end of Howie doing what Howie did for UW.

It's been touched on, but I don't know that anybody could do a whole lot with Hayton last year. He had his way of playing, and I don't think anyone could get him to start over and play differently in just one season. He had talent, but he was a product of a system at St Larry's that was very different from what was going on here and in the B1G. Btw - Kyle is trying to make a go of it with the Fort Wayne Komets of the ECHL. Wish him the best of luck.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Again, though, where are you going to find a goalie coach like Howard, who is both in Madison and is willing/able to do this work for free? And, if the only option is a goalie coach who is not that special breed, then is it worth having them just because they are supposedly a goalie coach?

Just like hiring any new employee, it would have taken some forethought and planning. It all depends on when the Sanger deal went down, which we don't know. If it was a month ago, there isn't much TG could have done about it. If if happened in the spring or summer, then TG is derelict in his duties. All other D1 schools have goalie coaches, so while finding a volunteer would not be easy, it happens everywhere else, and this IS UW Madison right, a marque program with a glorious history, a pretty good job. Madison is a thriving city, the new coach and assuming wife could have re-located and gained employment in Madison or even Milwaukee pretty easily, it's not like they are trying to find a job in Houghton MI or Mankato MN.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

. Btw - Kyle is trying to make a go of it with the Fort Wayne Komets of the ECHL. Wish him the best of luck.

Yes, best of luck to Kyle. It's really sucky for him that the UW thing ended up being a big black mark on the resume, especially when I'm sure he was thinking it would be just the opposite.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

(exhibition) GAME DAY, Badgers!

A million questions about this team yet, but it's exciting to just get the boys out on the ice. Looking forward to seeing the lines, the D pairs, and how the new guys skate and fit in, as well as a peek at what's in goal. Lot's of work still and lot's of opportunities for guys to get into the mix before BC, so get after it boys!

BADGER HOCKEY SEASON is just hours away!

Let's Go RED!!!

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

The kids did some scoring today. That’s a start.

[Timothy A]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

The kids did some scoring today. That’s a start.

A couple screw ups lead to the goals, one from our own blue line and one from by the net, otherwise UW had them covered, so it's hard to make much out of the game. Caufield really did a nice job of getting himself into great scoring chances and that goal was a beauty, his play jumped out at me, lead the team in shots. Miller looked very offensive, very comfortable. The biggest thing to me as Zimmer having 2 sniper goals, they really need him to have a big year.

It will be fascinating how the Fr F play or how much they play, especially the 4 line, next weekend against a top end foe. Bummed Jack didn't play, he was one who I was really curious to see.

Had great seats in the first row second tier, the walk was long to get to concessions, but I get it. We did end up paying the 15 for the parking, but got really close in lot 91, so that was good for my daughter. We had a lot of fun, she loves the band which she hardly gets to hear at the women's games, and having fun is what it's all about, win or lose.

[Koho]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

(Only half meant to keep the fan rivalry alive, and half to be informative...)

Sampo Ranta scores only MN goal last night for tie with UMD, and adds another tonight.

[solovsfett]

(Only half meant to keep the fan rivalry alive, and half to be informative...)

Sampo Ranta scores only MN goal last night for tie with UMD, and adds another tonight.

I hope Dominic Mersch checks Ranta over the boards and into Motzko’s face 😈😈😈

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Wisconsin Hockey - 2018 Off-Season - Hope or Despair?

Agree with Tim that it was a disappointment not to have Gorniak on the ice just to see how he skates and moves, but probably even moreso just to get him on the ice and lose a few jitters. That it was reported to be "a paperwork issue" that kept him out... Man, that kind of thing just grinds my gears coming on the heels of Ranta being a gopher because he didn't get the requisite score on the TOEFL. We look at a kid in goal busting his butt for years just to get in there and then when a puck slips by, we jump all over him even though stopping a puck is a hell of a lot harder than filing a piece of paper. Administrative screw ups are unacceptable and we should jump all over somebody for those even more.

As to the rest of the boys, The F's all look good and as advertised. I thought Tischke-Miller would be the top pair, but I didn't expect Emberson/Ess and Kalynuk/Inamoto. That may change, but to start with it seems like Kalynuk's offensive skills aren't outweighing his defensive liabilities enough to get him top minutes yet. Does sound like Tony maybe splitting time and responsibilities a bit more this year by playing some different guys on the PP and Pk and rolling lines more though. Makes sense because as this team doesn't have the big time scorers, they need to play at a high intensity all the time and capitalize on forced errors. I'm thining Nolan Richardson and "40 Minutes of Hell" is about right.

Great to see Zimm's snipe a couple beauties to get going, nice to see Messner getting off shots in traffic, and nice to see Dom Mersch play like older Mike already as a freshman. F's are deep and there's a lot of competition for playing time, which is good. Of course, BC is going to take away time and space at about 3x the rate Victoria ever could, so all those shots aren't indicative of much for the upcoming week. But still, it's good to see the instinct to shoot the puck is there for a bunch of these guys.