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Thread: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Put me down as extremely underwhelmed if, after years of hoping Souza planned in adding legitimate recruiting help, he hires a guy who has NEVER recruited or coached at the collegiate level. I suppose he recruits to St Marks (someone with prep school ties can tell me how he does in that regard) and he may have the right personality, but I'm not really interested in simply hoping he can do it...

    I'll be underwhelmed with either - simply hiring a buddy does nothing for me and would be a red flag...
    Like I’ve said before, naming the guy to replace him will be Souza’s most important action as coach. He needs to hire some one who complements him, not compliments him. I just can’t believe that he looks at the team that took the ice this past year and conclude that we don’t need to upgrade at just about every position. If he thinks that way, we’re doomed.

    Btw, it’s only a few short years ago that Carl Corrazini was the head coach at Weston HS, a D3 EMass school, and was beaten by Lynn in the playoffs. Hiring a high school coach, especially one with that level on his resume, would be a huge mistake.
    Last edited by Greg Ambrose; 03-15-2018 at 04:55 PM.

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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    Sounds like the resist movement is already out there in full combat mode now. MS was limited in what he could say at that presser. His retired head coach was sitting in the audience ferchrissakes. You expect him to slam him at that moment in time. If he had I and many others I suspect would think a lot less of him for doing so.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Sounds like the resist movement is already out there in full combat mode now. MS was limited in what he could say at that presser. His retired head coach was sitting in the audience ferchrissakes. You expect him to slam him at that moment in time. If he had I and many others I suspect would think a lot less of him for doing so.
    What he says at the dog and pony show is one thing. I get that. What he volunteers at a press conference is another. There are ways to say things without throwing Umile under the bus. How about “When I talked about getting back to the days when the Whit was filled, I know that won’t happen until we start winning more games. I played here on teams that were among the best in the country. I know what it takes and that is the goal, to be among the best.”

    Btw, what does “resist movement” mean? I can’t speak for anybody else but I am resistant to the idea that we can continue to do things in the same manner as has been done in the recent past and expect different results. The definition of insanity as Einstein once said. Much was made at the festivities yesterday of the continuity from Holt to Kullen to Umile. My memory is that, at the depths of UNH’s mediocrity in the late 80s, the continuity in recruiting philosophy changed. There was a marked difference from Bob Kullen, circa 1983 to Brian McCloskey circa 1993. We need the same sort of epiphany now.
    Last edited by Greg Ambrose; 03-15-2018 at 05:37 PM.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    What he says at the dog and pony show is one thing. I get that. What he volunteers at a press conference is another. There are ways to say things without throwing Umile under the bus. How about “When I talked about getting back to the days when the Whit was filled, I know that won’t happen until we start winning more games. I played here on teams that were among the best in the country. I know what it takes and that is the goal, to be among the best.”
    Yeah I agree with you and I also agree that his biggest decision out of the box will be the open coaching decision. We need to wait and see what transpires first before throwing him to the vultures though is all I'm saying.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Sounds like the resist movement is already out there in full combat mode now. MS was limited in what he could say at that presser. His retired head coach was sitting in the audience ferchrissakes. You expect him to slam him at that moment in time. If he had I and many others I suspect would think a lot less of him for doing so.
    You missed where I stated - as Greg did - that it's entirely possible to aay what I wished to hear (and what prospects, coaches and fans needed to hear) without slamming the past regime or players. And it was entirely possible.

    That said, I don't care as much about what he said. I take more issue with them pumping up Souza exactly the same way they did when he was hired as an assistant and that he has failed - in three years to date - to show he can live up to those recruiting expectations.

    But call me a negative resister if it helps - it doesn't bother me. I was a negative resister when I said this would be a tough season and everyone was sure it would be a good one. I know what it takes and I'm still not seeing it in words OR action...

    That press conference has apparently excited some here - but if you think that those statements and rumored hires (and Souza's three years recruiting at UNH) should inspire confidence in future recruiting than please tell me why...

    He's been here for three seasons - in charge of coaching D (everyone's favorite target), the PP (inept sans AAs) and leading recruiting (with zero track record before hand). This is not failing to give him a chance. This is paying attention to what's happened in Durham for three years. Stop telling me he's a master recruiter and have him go act (and produce) like one and I'll stop being such a resister...

    The mood of the press conference was simple - We're right there. They're not. The problem isn't necessarily what was said - it's that I think they believe it...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-15-2018 at 05:44 PM.

  6. #126
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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    Stewart was out in BC twice this past month. One to seal the Taylor deal? The last to ..... hopefully we don't have to debate our own reaction to Mike's words, but rather their affect on recruits. I look forward to that.

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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    Hiring a high school coach, especially one with that level on his resume, would be a huge mistake.
    Wasn't Umile a high school coach (Watertown) before being hired as an assistant at PC? Not that I am condoning the practice, mind you
    Move along folks, move along....nothing to see here.....

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    Wasn't Umile a high school coach (Watertown) before being hired as an assistant at PC? Not that I am condoning the practice, mind you
    High school coach, then out of hockey, then PC assistant, then UNH assistant, then head coach.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    You missed where I stated - as Greg did - that it's entirely possible to aay what I wished to hear (and what prospects, coaches and fans needed to hear) without slamming the past regime or players. And it was entirely possible.

    That said, I don't care as much about what he said. I take more issue with them pumping up Souza exactly the same way they did when he was hired as an assistant and that he has failed - in three years to date - to show he can live up to those recruiting expectations.

    But call me a negative resister if it helps - it doesn't bother me. I was a negative resister when I said this would be a tough season and everyone was sure it would be a good one. I know what it takes and I'm still not seeing it in words OR action...

    That press conference has apparently excited some here - but if you think that those statements and rumored hires (and Souza's three years recruiting at UNH) should inspire confidence in future recruiting than please tell me why...

    He's been here for three seasons - in charge of coaching D (everyone's favorite target), the PP (inept sans AAs) and leading recruiting (with zero track record before hand). This is not failing to give him a chance. This is paying attention to what's happened in Durham for three years. Stop telling me he's a master recruiter and have him go act (and produce) like one and I'll stop being such a resister...

    The mood of the press conference was simple - We're right there. They're not. The problem isn't necessarily what was said - it's that I think they believe it...
    No I didn't miss what you said Dan. You missed what I said. We need to give MS some space right now. See what transpires and go from there. You can't have it both ways Dan. You want a young stud coach who relates to these snowflakes and not an old school Umile type. You deal with the nuance and shut the front door!

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    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    No I didn't miss what you said Dan. You missed what I said. We need to give MS some space right now. See what transpires and go from there. You can't have it both ways Dan. You want a young stud coach who relates to these snowflakes and not an old school Umile type. You deal with the nuance and shut the front door!
    So you don't think that there is a way to express that the future will be different and significant changes are needed without defaming the previous coach? Because I said clearly statements about significant change and to recruits could be made with respect towards the past regime and you responded (as if you missed that qualifier) by saying that if Souza had expressed what I wished to hear it would be entirely disrespectful.

    So, tell me why if Souza thinks significant work is required to get UNH back to the top he couldn't have said so without offending Umile? And why would Umile be offended at hearing a statement like that? Do you not think Umile realizes that work is required or that the program is down? I bet he does...

    It is far more likely that Souza said what he said because he believes it. I think he thinks that with some work this summer the returning team is knocking on the door and that's why he insinuated as such.

    As to the rest of your post - I have not been the one calling for a young coach. I want a good coach. I don't care how well a coach relates to his players if he can't close the deal. Young or old, I have been quite clear about wanting a coach who can LAND talent. Everything else is colored bubbles.

    Souza does not get the space he would get if he was hired from UConn this week. He was hired three years ago! He has been in charge of recruiting (as the coordinator and sole decision maker) for three years! He has been in place and doing the job. His clock started a long time ago. Next year's roster is ENTIRELY his - they are either his recruits or it was his decision to keep their offers in place. PERIOD.

    The last three years reflect on him quite a bit. To bury your head in the sand and pretend this is a fresh start is wishful. If you want to hope everything will be different now and that Umile was the recruiting problem the last few years then go ahead. I'll stick to reality and what we know as far as Souza's resume. Despite claims he's a master recruiter he's been haphazard and inconsistent (at best) at UNH. His track record beforehand was spotty to downright unimpressive at Brown and UConn.

    He talks a good game about leaving no stone unturned. But it hasn't produced results. They've been plagued by incredibly long droughts without commitments. They've committed to a large number of under the radar projects. Their best commits have been late decommits from other schools. They. They failed to hold onto the best recruits from the Borek era (or land players who surpass the talent level of the holdovers - resulting in so many players in roles above their ability). And they failed to maintain the commitment of their biggest get in Drew Commesso.

    That's Souza's three-year UNH resume. The same Souza who's going to be leading recruiting efforts at UNH moving forward. And we're constantly being sold by UNH that recruiting is his biggest strength. On top of that there is the declining PP and the defense that everyone (else, not me) blames as the weakest link of the team.

    So what magically changes now that Souza is in the big chair? Was he forced to play PP personnel and formations without any input? Was Umile telling him who he could and couldn't recruit for his own team?

    You think I'm negative. I'm telling you - I'm calling it as I see it based on what I see and I'm not happy to be writing this review. That's a fact.Unlike many I view UNH and it's current situation, not just as a fan of UNH (though I am as much a fan as anyone), but as a fan of college hockey. A Miami alum. A DU season ticket holder. A former employee of both a program and a conference. I see UNH and how they stack up across HE and the sport and if they stacked up well I'd have more positive things to say.

    I'll be the first one to give Souza props when he earns them. In three years with great control over the program, he simply has not. And his attitude about strictly recruiting players who want 'UNH' is a bad one - its up to him to create reasons for players to want UNH and to sell the school. That's what it takes. Expecting players to trip over themselves to come to a school that finished last in HE and 52 in PWR is foolish. He thinks they should because that was his experience as a recruit when the program was rolling.

    He needs to take a long look at why UNH was so enticing to him and work from there. Enough with the assumptions it's still the same program. And if he looks back he'll realize it all started and ended with McCloskey convincing kids UNH was place where they wanted to play. He didn't target kids who wanted UNH, he targeted kids he wanted and made them want UNH. See Hemingway, Colin. And no one ever gave a rip how old he was. He was, simply, a stud recruiter regardless of age.

    Souza has had three years to realize that and he hasn't. Why would he realize it today just because his title is different...?

    And his big selling point has been 'family'. Ninety percent of the program's in college hockey and college sports have a family atmosphere. That's not a differentiating factor. So enough already. To care about your players is a baseline. Family, caring about student-athletes and developing people is not going to be the primary factor in recruiting anyone. Every school does this.

    Miami Hockey is known as the brotherhood. That led to a lot of wins and great recruits when Jeff Blashill and Chris Bergeron were doing the recruiting. Now, it gets them nowhere and they're losing. Why? Cause the recruiters aren't any good and kids can find a family atmosphere at any number of schools.

    Players want a school that will do all that AND win, get them to the pros and make them better. The last three are differentiating factors and Souza needs to sell kids (thru differentiating factors like early impact roles, big scholarship money, gushing about what UNH has instead of worrying about what it doesn't, etc) that they can do those things in Durham. To do so requires an attitude and an announcement that things are changing now. Regardless of who may take offense...

    Significant change is needed and they need to say so and act in it. Instead, we get the same statements we've been getting for three years - but we expect an entirely different approach/guy now anyway?

    THEY can't have it both ways ecat - the status quo and success. Time to shut the front door on the way they've done things and try something new. It starts with telling recruits, coaches and fans publicly that things are going to change...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-15-2018 at 09:30 PM.

  11. #131
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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    So much time to make up everywhere you turn
    Time we have wasted on the way
    So much water moving underneath the bridge
    Let the water come and carry us away...

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    So you don't think that there is a way to express that the future will be different and significant changes are needed without defaming the previous coach? Because I said clearly statements about significant change and to recruits could be made with respect towards the past regime and you responded (as if you missed that qualifier) by saying that if Souza had expressed what I wished to hear it would be entirely disrespectful.

    So, tell me why if Souza thinks significant work is required to get UNH back to the top he couldn't have said so without offending Umile? And why would Umile be offended at hearing a statement like that? Do you not think Umile realizes that work is required or that the program is down? I bet he does...

    It is far more likely that Souza said what he said because he believes it. I think he thinks that with some work this summer the returning team is knocking on the door and that's why he insinuated as such.

    As to the rest of your post - I have not been the one calling for a young coach. I want a good coach. I don't care how well a coach relates to his players if he can't close the deal. Young or old, I have been quite clear about wanting a coach who can LAND talent. Everything else is colored bubbles.

    Souza does not get the space he would get if he was hired from UConn this week. He was hired three years ago! He has been in charge of recruiting (as the coordinator and sole decision maker) for three years! He has been in place and doing the job. His clock started a long time ago. Next year's roster is ENTIRELY his - they are either his recruits or it was his decision to keep their offers in place. PERIOD.

    The last three years reflect on him quite a bit. To bury your head in the sand and pretend this is a fresh start is wishful. If you want to hope everything will be different now and that Umile was the recruiting problem the last few years then go ahead. I'll stick to reality and what we know as far as Souza's resume. Despite claims he's a master recruiter he's been haphazard and inconsistent (at best) at UNH. His track record beforehand was spotty to downright unimpressive at Brown and UConn.

    He talks a good game about leaving no stone unturned. But it hasn't produced results. They've been plagued by incredibly long droughts without commitments. They've committed to a large number of under the radar projects. Their best commits have been late decommits from other schools. They. They failed to hold onto the best recruits from the Borek era (or land players who surpass the talent level of the holdovers - resulting in so many players in roles above their ability). And they failed to maintain the commitment of their biggest get in Drew Commesso.

    That's Souza's three-year UNH resume. The same Souza who's going to be leading recruiting efforts at UNH moving forward. And we're constantly being sold by UNH that recruiting is his biggest strength. On top of that there is the declining PP and the defense that everyone (else, not me) blames as the weakest link of the team.

    So what magically changes now that Souza is in the big chair? Was he forced to play PP personnel and formations without any input? Was Umile telling him who he could and couldn't recruit for his own team?

    You think I'm negative. I'm telling you - I'm calling it as I see it based on what I see and I'm not happy to be writing this review. That's a fact.Unlike many I view UNH and it's current situation, not just as a fan of UNH (though I am as much a fan as anyone), but as a fan of college hockey. A Miami alum. A DU season ticket holder. A former employee of both a program and a conference. I see UNH and how they stack up across HE and the sport and if they stacked up well I'd have more positive things to say.

    I'll be the first one to give Souza props when he earns them. In three years with great control over the program, he simply has not. And his attitude about strictly recruiting players who want 'UNH' is a bad one - its up to him to create reasons for players to want UNH and to sell the school. That's what it takes. Expecting players to trip over themselves to come to a school that finished last in HE and 52 in PWR is foolish. He thinks they should because that was his experience as a recruit when the program was rolling.

    He needs to take a long look at why UNH was so enticing to him and work from there. Enough with the assumptions it's still the same program. And if he looks back he'll realize it all started and ended with McCloskey convincing kids UNH was place where they wanted to play. He didn't target kids who wanted UNH, he targeted kids he wanted and made them want UNH. See Hemingway, Colin. And no one ever gave a rip how old he was. He was, simply, a stud recruiter regardless of age.

    Souza has had three years to realize that and he hasn't. Why would he realize it today just because his title is different...?

    And his big selling point has been 'family'. Ninety percent of the program's in college hockey and college sports have a family atmosphere. That's not a differentiating factor. So enough already. To care about your players is a baseline. Family, caring about student-athletes and developing people is not going to be the primary factor in recruiting anyone. Every school does this.

    Miami Hockey is known as the brotherhood. That led to a lot of wins and great recruits when Jeff Blashill and Chris Bergeron were doing the recruiting. Now, it gets them nowhere and they're losing. Why? Cause the recruiters aren't any good and kids can find a family atmosphere at any number of schools.

    Players want a school that will do all that AND win, get them to the pros and make them better. The last three are differentiating factors and Souza needs to sell kids (early impact roles, big scholarship money, fish about what UNH has instead of worrying about what it doesn't, etc) that they can do those things in Durham. To do so requires an attitude and an announcement that things are changing now. Regardless of who may take offense...

    We got the same statements we've been getting for three years - but we expect an entirely different approach/guy now anyway...?
    That's a long epistle Dan. More about you and your inside the Beltway knowledge of college sports than anything else.I don't care if you're negative or not. You have a right to your opinion as much as the next guy. But it's all bollacks! You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. You can pontificate how Souza's track record to date is below your standards all you want but that's BS. The buck stops with Souza now. It wasn't up until yesterday!
    Last edited by e.cat; 03-15-2018 at 09:31 PM.

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    That's a long epistle Dan. More about you and your inside the Beltway knowledge of college sports than anything else.I don't care if you're negative or not. You have a right to your opinion as much as the next guy. But it's all bollacks! You don't know what's going on behind the scenes. You can pontificate how Souza's track record to date is below your standards all you want but that's BS. The buck stops with Souza now. It wasn't up until yesterday!
    Lol - one paragraph discussed the prism through which I viewed UNH (and where I see them relative to HE and the entire sport - and that is what matters btw) and you use it to dismiss an entire post because you're looking for any reason to dismiss the past three years and Souza's track record. He's not going to be a completely different guy now just because you want him to (hope he can) be. If you had any real reason to think he was you'd have said so, but instead you said this. In other words you have no reasons, you just want to believe it's different now...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-15-2018 at 09:55 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Lol - one paragraph discussed the prism through which I viewed UNH (and where I see them relative to the entire sport) and you use it to dismiss an entire post because you're looking for any reason to dismiss the past three years and Souza's track record. He's not going to be a completely different guy now just because you want him to (hope he can) be. If you had any real reason to think he was you'd have said so, but instead you said this. In other words you have no reasons, you just want to believe it's different now...
    Dan, I like you. I really do. Don't let me stand in the way of your complete and utter delusional opinion that UNH can or will pick up some world beater Vanek type from Europe any time soon!

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    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Dan, I like you. I really do. Don't let me stand in the way of your complete and utter delusional opinion that UNH can or will pick up some world beater Vanek type from Europe any time soon!
    How about a few more Max Gildons, APs and TKs? Or is UNH only allows to get 1-2 big talents at a time? I'd love for someone to explain why UNH can land those three and not other talent at the same time. Or why Union, Minn State, Harvard, NU, Duluth and St Cloud can compete for talent but UNH cannot.

    St Cloud landing elite skill players in the shadow of MN, UND, ND and DU is all the proof you need to know that UNH (and it's recruiters) has all the ammo it needs to compete in, and improve recruiting, right now and all the excuses are bunk...

    Certainly though UNH will not be getting any Vanek-like talent as long as they believe they're unworthy of such. McCloskey should have believed that regarding Hemingway and Collins, but he still efforted and lo and behold...

    I like you too ecat. Have a great night...
    Last edited by Dan; 03-15-2018 at 10:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    How about a few more Max Gildons, APs and TKs?
    Works for me Dan

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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    How about we all agree 1) Souza was handicapped by the former coach and 2) he's no longer handicapped. All prior results are mulligans, and we start fresh, with all of us wishing him the best of luck. How about we collectively agree that we should relegate all grievances about that dark era (and use of the former coach's name) to the old thread?

    With that clean slate, and judging only actions: Going forward, the assistant announcement will come "sooner." I assume this is based on the fact that White, as a pro scout, cannot simply drop everything right now. White did college free agent scouting, so perhaps that is now done with the college season, and he can move on.

    Now connecting the dots. The whole presser of "NHL connections" and "agents and advisors" relationships. White no doubt is talking to college free agent advisors during that scouting of free agents, and also has NHL peers at Winnipeg including the Euro scouts. Does Winnipeg send all of their picks to UNH? For example, last year's fourth pick was Finnish forward Santeri Virtanen, now with Dubuque of the USHL. http://www.dubuquefightingsaints.com...688?subseason=

    Michael Berdin, now with Sioux Falls in the USHL, is a potential college goalie.....http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=193770

    I presume Winnipeg wouldn't mind lending those two to White. Are those the late additions?
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-16-2018 at 07:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    How about we all agree 1) Souza was handicapped by the former coach and 2) he's no longer handicapped. All prior results are mulligans, and we start fresh, with all of us wishing him the best of luck. How about we collectively agree that we should relegate all grievances about that dark era (and use of the former coach's name) to the old thread?

    With that clean slate, and judging only actions: Going forward, the assistant announcement will come "sooner." I assume this is based on the fact that White, as a pro scout, cannot simply drop everything right now. White did college free agent scouting, so perhaps that is now done with the college season, and he can move on.

    Now connecting the dots. The whole presser of "NHL connections" and "agents and advisors" relationships. White no doubt is talking to college free agent advisors during that scouting of free agents, and also has NHL peers at Winnipeg including the Euro scouts. Does Winnipeg send all of their picks to UNH? For example, last year's fourth pick was Finnish forward Santeri Virtanen, now with Dubuque of the USHL. http://www.dubuquefightingsaints.com...688?subseason=

    Michael Berdin, now with Sioux Falls in the USHL, is a potential college goalie.....http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=193770

    I presume Winnipeg wouldn't mind lending those two to White. Are those the late additions?
    Yup! And I agree the signs point towards White coming in. As Dan alluded, is this just a buddy pick?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    How about we all agree 1) Souza was handicapped by the former coach and 2) he's no longer handicapped. All prior results are mulligans, and we start fresh, with all of us wishing him the best of luck. How about we collectively agree that we should relegate all grievances about that dark era (and use of the former coach's name) to the old thread?

    With that clean slate, and judging only actions: Going forward, the assistant announcement will come "sooner." I assume this is based on the fact that White, as a pro scout, cannot simply drop everything right now. White did college free agent scouting, so perhaps that is now done with the college season, and he can move on.

    Now connecting the dots. The whole presser of "NHL connections" and "agents and advisors" relationships. White no doubt is talking to college free agent advisors during that scouting of free agents, and also has NHL peers at Winnipeg including the Euro scouts. Does Winnipeg send all of their picks to UNH? For example, last year's fourth pick was Finnish forward Santeri Virtanen, now with Dubuque of the USHL. http://www.dubuquefightingsaints.com...688?subseason=

    Michael Berdin, now with Sioux Falls in the USHL, is a potential college goalie.....http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...php?pid=193770

    I presume Winnipeg wouldn't mind lending those two to White. Are those the late additions?
    Bring us some Finns!

    Finland #1 in the 2018 Happiness Index; U.S. #18.

  20. #140
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    Re: UNH 2018 Offseason- Out with the old , in with the semi new?

    Quote Originally Posted by e.cat View Post
    Yup! And I agree the signs point towards White coming in. As Dan alluded, is this just a buddy pick?
    White grew up a couple of towns over from Souza (Woburn/Wakefield) and they are the same age. They were teammates at UNH, and White was an assistant at Brown when they hired Souza, probably instrumental in getting him the job. So there is a long connection.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Bring us some Finns!
    Per his web page, he speaks five languages, so that's good..... Being from Finland and Dubuque, UNH would be a warm weather town.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 03-16-2018 at 07:54 AM.

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