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Thread: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

  1. #81
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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty View Post
    What I’m saying is that I oppose efforts to give teams that already have the high ground — in the form of weaker opponents — an additional home ice advantage in a sport where it is notoriously hard to win in another team’s arena.

    At that point you’re just letting the Frozen Four participants host exhibition games.
    Got it. I appreciate the input.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmitty View Post
    What Iím saying is that I oppose efforts to give teams that already have the high ground ó in the form of weaker opponents ó an additional home ice advantage in a sport where it is notoriously hard to win in another teamís arena.

    At that point youíre just letting the Frozen Four participants host exhibition games.
    I'm neither for nor against home games in the tournament, but I think we ought to pick a rationale and stick with it. Right now, we insist on regional sites because they are neutral and "fair," but then we have host schools and we mess with bracket integrity by swapping teams to boost attendance. What are we trying to achieve?

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    Quote Originally Posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
    What are we trying to achieve?
    To make as much money as possible for the NCAA.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    To make as much money as possible for the NCAA.
    Then home ice in arenas of at least 5000 makes the most sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purpleinnebraska View Post
    Then home ice in arenas of at least 5000 makes the most sense.
    But then you have the occasional 1 seed whose arena isn't large enough or is too remote. The NCAA can make more money long-term with regional hosts paying out the *** for the right to lose money on the games (seriously, read the agreement the NCAA makes hosts sign) and just tweak the brackets when they need to. I would love to see the financials for the hockey regionals.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Nowadays does anyone appreciate how hard it would be to keep rinks open for the potential of a couple games?

    Agganis will no doubt have events planned months in advance. Mookie is sure other barns also schedule stuff. You are asking buildings to forgo revenue with no guarantee at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    But then you have the occasional 1 seed whose arena isn't large enough or is too remote. The NCAA can make more money long-term with regional hosts paying out the *** for the right to lose money on the games (seriously, read the agreement the NCAA makes hosts sign) and just tweak the brackets when they need to. I would love to see the financials for the hockey regionals.
    This is exactly what leads to the discussion. Grand Rapids, MI no longer bids because they lose money. I doubt you'll see a Cincinnati bid again. Notre Dame hosted on campus a couple years ago and the committee said.. No one else bid. Now, Allentown is trying for two years. The only chance they have of making it work is it the committee treats them like a third eastern regional.

    West is going to be ok, because NoDak will bid every year at either Sioux Falls or Fargo, and never lose money doing it. In theory,St Cloud or Duluth could do the same because their rinks are not on campus (I think). East is usually fine, but Albany is out of the rotation, because not enough fans go up there.

    All this would take is a couple of lean years in the East, and no one would bid. Then what would the committee do?
    Last edited by Numbers; 02-19-2018 at 11:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    This is exactly what leads to the discussion. Grand Rapids, MI no longer bids because they lose money. I doubt you'll see a Cincinnati bid again. Notre Dame hosted on campus a couple years ago and the committee said.. No one else bid. Now, Allentown is trying for two years. The only chance they have of making it work is it the committee treats them like a third eastern regional.

    West is going to be ok, because NoDak will bid every year at either Sioux Falls or Fargo, and never lose money doing it. In theory,St Cloud or Duluth could do the same because their rinks are not on campus (I think). East is usually fine, but Albany is out of the rotation, because not enough fans go up there.

    All this would take is a couple of lean years in the East, and no one would bid. Then what would the committee do?
    The committee can count on suckers like the Portland, Maine bid. It will be a financial mess if it comes here. Especially if Maine or New Hampshire don't make it (which isn't exactly a long shot).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    The committee can count on suckers like the Portland, Maine bid. It will be a financial mess if it comes here. Especially if Maine or New Hampshire don't make it (which isn't exactly a long shot).
    Has it been there before?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Has it been there before?
    No, but they bid for at least 2019 and 2020. The Icebreaker in 2015 was their audition and dry run. I think the tournament went well but there is a huge difference between that tournament and hosting a regional - particularly financial. Looking over the application I can't see how the university plans to make a cent, and it will likely cost them $50-100000. That's money we don't have.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    This is exactly what leads to the discussion. Grand Rapids, MI no longer bids because they lose money. I doubt you'll see a Cincinnati bid again. Notre Dame hosted on campus a couple years ago and the committee said.. No one else bid. Now, Allentown is trying for two years. The only chance they have of making it work is it the committee treats them like a third eastern regional.

    West is going to be ok, because NoDak will bid every year at either Sioux Falls or Fargo, and never lose money doing it. In theory,St Cloud or Duluth could do the same because their rinks are not on campus (I think). East is usually fine, but Albany is out of the rotation, because not enough fans go up there.

    All this would take is a couple of lean years in the East, and no one would bid. Then what would the committee do?
    You're right about Duluth being off campus. SCSU's arena is on campus. However, I don't believe being on or off campus is the issue. The NCAA doesn't want any team to host in their home arena, so both of those options would be out. By way of their rule, which they don't always follow - Minnesota can't host at Mariucci (although they did so fairly recently), but they can host a few miles away at Xcel.

    Omaha is the best example. They got their new on campus barn and moved out of the CenturyLink. So, if they so elected, they could and likely would be awarded a regional in downtown Omaha at their former arena.

    The system as currently constructed works fine out east. The west/midwest will continue to be a mess under the neutral site format, but the coaches don't want to change it. If we allow #1 seeds to host, even if all the logistics work, that just ensures a handful of power teams from power conferences host more often than not. The rich get richer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pump It Up View Post
    You're right about Duluth being off campus. SCSU's arena is on campus. However, I don't believe being on or off campus is the issue. The NCAA doesn't want any team to host in their home arena, so both of those options would be out. By way of their rule, which they don't always follow - Minnesota can't host at Mariucci (although they did so fairly recently), but they can host a few miles away at Xcel.

    Omaha is the best example. They got their new on campus barn and moved out of the CenturyLink. So, if they so elected, they could and likely would be awarded a regional in downtown Omaha at their former arena.

    The system as currently constructed works fine out east. The west/midwest will continue to be a mess under the neutral site format, but the coaches don't want to change it. If we allow #1 seeds to host, even if all the logistics work, that just ensures a handful of power teams from power conferences host more often than not. The rich get richer.
    Thanks for clarifying the home ice rule. As for top seeds, I think there are two considerations. One is that the top seeds gets spread more than we think, and I'm going to check on that this afternoon.

    The other is that there is no world where it's right for Mankato or Denver or someone from out east who is a top seed to have to play NoDak in Fargo or Sioux Falls when 90% of the barn is full of NoDak fans, when NoDak is a 3 seed. That's worse than the top see hosting.

    But I don't have a solution, because the NCAA wants it's money, and money comes from fans, and they have the most of them.
    Last edited by Numbers; 02-19-2018 at 01:45 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    No, but they bid for at least 2019 and 2020. The Icebreaker in 2015 was their audition and dry run. I think the tournament went well but there is a huge difference between that tournament and hosting a regional - particularly financial. Looking over the application I can't see how the university plans to make a cent, and it will likely cost them $50-100000. That's money we don't have.
    I would agree. Without the Maine team, it's just too far up there. Empty barn.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    Thanks for clarifying the home ice rule. As for top seeds, I think there are two considerations. One is that the top seeds gets spread more than we think, and I'm going to check on that this afternoon.

    The other is that there is no world where it's right for Mankato or Denver or someone from out east who is a top seed to have to play NoDak in Fargo or Sioux Falls when 90% of the barn is full of NoDak fans, when NoDak is a 3 seed. That's worse than the top see hosting.

    But I don't have a solution, because the NCAA wants it's money, and money comes from fans, and they have the most of them.
    Bingo! And that's what I don't like about the "No Home Rinks!" position. We already have it, but now it's unearned. If we're not going to award the top 4 seeds with home ice, then no one should get it.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
    I would agree. Without the Maine team, it's just too far up there. Empty barn.
    But Portland might get it, depending on how much they bid on who else is out there. It really isn't THAT far - 2 hours from Boston - and Portland is a regional transportation hub with a train coming from Boston regularly. Here in the East though it may as well be the moon. What's amusing is you'll still hear people complain that the CIC in Bangor wasn't built with ice so it can't host a regional. As if Bangor would ever get a regional anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    But Portland might get it, depending on how much they bid on who else is out there. It really isn't THAT far - 2 hours from Boston - and Portland is a regional transportation hub with a train coming from Boston regularly. Here in the East though it may as well be the moon. What's amusing is you'll still hear people complain that the CIC in Bangor wasn't built with ice so it can't host a regional. As if Bangor would ever get a regional anyway.
    I think a regional in Portland is a good idea. As you started it is easily accessible from Boston. It is actually closer to Boston than it is to Orono. The arena seats about 6200 which is a nice size for a regional. Portland is also a fun and reasonably priced city.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    In regard to #1 seeds...

    In the last 11 years, there have been 21 different schools who had a #1 seed for the tournament (11 years is a totally random choice of years - don't make anything of that....)
    Of those years, these schools have had more than one:
    BC - 5
    Minn - 4
    NoDak - 4
    Miami - 4
    Denver - 3
    Michigan - 3
    Union - 2
    Q-pac - 2
    Wisconsin - 2
    BU - 2
    NoDame - 2
    New Hampshire - 2

    This is just my opinion, but I would guess that spreading the hosting out among those schools would be a better spread than what currently happens, and it's not all "big schools' there either.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by scoreboard View Post
    I think a regional in Portland is a good idea. As you started it is easily accessible from Boston. It is actually closer to Boston than it is to Orono. The arena seats about 6200 which is a nice size for a regional. Portland is also a fun and reasonably priced city.
    From a fan perspective, a regional there would be great. I just don't see how it makes any financial sense for the host.

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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by ticapnews View Post
    But Portland might get it, depending on how much they bid on who else is out there. It really isn't THAT far - 2 hours from Boston - and Portland is a regional transportation hub with a train coming from Boston regularly. Here in the East though it may as well be the moon. What's amusing is you'll still hear people complain that the CIC in Bangor wasn't built with ice so it can't host a regional. As if Bangor would ever get a regional anyway.
    Could someone explain to me why with all of this loss of money why Yale and Fairfield (no hockey team) continue to bid as hosts in Bridgeport? The place never sells out, maybe they are given a great price? The other funny thing about this regional is that Bridgeport is now Sacred Hearts home rink. What would happen with Yale as the host AND Sacred Heart make the tourney. As far-fetched as it seems it could be an interesting scenario.
    YALE HOCKEY
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    Re: Boring 2018 Bracketology Thread - Here we go again...

    Quote Originally Posted by LTsatch View Post
    Could someone explain to me why with all of this loss of money why Yale and Fairfield (no hockey team) continue to bid as hosts in Bridgeport? The place never sells out, maybe they are given a great price? The other funny thing about this regional is that Bridgeport is now Sacred Hearts home rink. What would happen with Yale as the host AND Sacred Heart make the tourney. As far-fetched as it seems it could be an interesting scenario.
    Does Fairfield host other NCAA events? They might have a deal with the NCAA. Yale has money to burn so who knows why they do it. Skulls tell them to?

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