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Thread: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

  1. #181
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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Someday, people may even spell her name correctly on a message board.
    "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    Jen Welters was hired as an intern by Bruce Arians in Arizona, but she was not hired as a full time assistant. Ryan hired Kathryn Smith in 2016, but she was not retained when Ryan was fired. The 49ers employ Katie Sowers as a receivers coach, and she had a good comeback to Cam Newton's, “It’s funny to hear a female talk about routes,” comment.

    I kind of ignored the NFL in my comment, because I was more interested in sports where there is a more direct comparison of men's and women's teams than there is in football, where women don't have a team at either the high school or college level. I do think it is odd that a sport that doesn't is, arguably, the most progressive about employing women to coach men.

    That said, Becky Harmon with the San Antonio Spurs is way ahead of any of them in terms of long term job opportunities. She's been mentioned in conjunction with the head coaching position for the Phoenix Suns. While I think that hire is extremely unlikely this year, that's the trajectory she's on.
    Though I understand what you are saying in your post, I don't think you can simply "dismiss" what some NFL teams have done.

    I can't think of a more testosterone infused, caveman attitude, manly sport as football. And for the NFL to hire any kind of women for any sort of coaching position, and do that three different times, part time or not, future trajectory of a career path or not, is still breaking down barriers I doubt anyone would have thought possible just a few years ago.
    Russell Jaslow
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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    Though I understand what you are saying in your post, I don't think you can simply "dismiss" what some NFL teams have done.
    That wasn't an attempt at dismissal; it was just an explanation for why I didn't list them in the first post. It's actually very interesting, for the reasons you list and that there is nothing resembling women's football at the college or high school level. Aside from being testosterone fueled, sports in general prioritize past playing experience as a qualification for coaching positions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
    Though I understand what you are saying in your post, I don't think you can simply "dismiss" what some NFL teams have done.

    I can't think of a more testosterone infused, caveman attitude, manly sport as football. And for the NFL to hire any kind of women for any sort of coaching position, and do that three different times, part time or not, future trajectory of a career path or not, is still breaking down barriers I doubt anyone would have thought possible just a few years ago.
    Itís all pretty cool. Maine menís basketball announced Edniesha Curry as their newest assistant the other day. Iíve read about multiple female scouts and front office types getting into the MLB as well.

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    That wasn't an attempt at dismissal; it was just an explanation for why I didn't list them in the first post. It's actually very interesting, for the reasons you list and that there is nothing resembling women's football at the college or high school level. Aside from being testosterone fueled, sports in general prioritize past playing experience as a qualification for coaching positions.
    I understood what you were saying. I didn't mean to "dismiss" you. LOL
    Russell Jaslow
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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    First off, Davidson should get called out on the no men thing. I agree with you there. At the same time, I’m fine with the Laura Schuler appointment, but your observations are valid there, not a deep head coaching resume. We don’t know (maybe you do) if Desrosiers was trying to get the head coaching job. In the US, it went to Stauber; people could argue (did argue) his resume wasn’t good enough.

    The job simply doesn’t go to the person with the most loaded resume and even when it does that coach doesn’t automatically win. 2010 Olympics of MJ vs Davidson as an example.

    I like the idea of developing AA and AAA coaches. I don’t know if Head Coach Matt Desrosiers would have had any more success at the Nations Cup than Noemie Marin: Canada’s U22 minus how many centralized players vs those other countries Olympic teams? I think Canada has lost that tourney before in Olympic years, or they’ve just not gone in other Olympic years. I kind of wondered if Desrosiers knew that wasn’t a winnable tourney and took a pass. Or, he may have been upset that Giguere wasn’t on the team and said no. Or, personal reasons of course.

    As for future coaches for Canada, I’ve wondered if CWHL coaches will start getting looks, since they are coaching a high level of hockey, and in general the same players that will be on an Olympic roster. In the 2014 Olympics I remember Canada had a male coach, he got fired befor the Olys, then Dineen replaced him. Maybe the players have expressed a desire to be coached by people who have been immersed in women’s hockey before?

    Canada is in a unique spot because they can’t reasonably expect the NCAA to develop a deep, diverse pool of Canadian coaches. Right now USports is not as high a level of play as NCAA, although who knows, Daoust might have started a trend. So Davidson is trying to navigate that, plus get more deserving women coaches opportunities and that’s great.

    There’s been an underlying argument in some posts that women can’t yet coach and I want to respond to that:

    The winningest coach in NCAA women’s ice hockey is a woman, the person to win the most NCAA championships is a woman, 25% of teams in the final eight for NCAA were coached by women and that exceeds the overall percentage of women coaching in NCAA. In Canada, 2nd and 3rd in USports Championships went to teams coached by women this year; the overall breakdown of coaches skews heavily male. Women can coach, they can coach now, they could coach in the late nineties and the 2000’s, its been proven. I come here for hockey talk, not feminist stuff, but the discussion went to women can’t coach so here I am, I guess.

    So let’s not blame Canada’s quadrennial results on female coaches. And let’s not pretend doing nothing to actively develop female coaches will result in a deep pool of talented coaches. It doesn’t work that way for women. Bizarrely, women seem to get head coach jobs after coaching for Hockey Canada, when it really should be the other way around.

    Final note: It will be interesting to see Schuler try to lead Dartmouth back to winning. I like that she steps up and takes on a team. Wonder what Stauber does the next four years. Is he on salary with USA hockey? Would be interesting to see him coach a college team.
    Ken Hitchcock retired from head coaching the dallas stars just months ago and unfortunately is serving in some consultant role with the team, i believe. This is unfortunate because he has great respect for women, great respect for the women's game, and speaks very highly about women and the hockey game that they play and so it is sad that he will not be in the conversation to coach the national team. His coaching tenure with the Blues shows that he is a master at tactics and strategy even when with a not as skilled team before him. This would be perfect for team canada women. But no, he will not be coaching them.

    Something I really agree with you on is that Canada had a quadrennial that didn’t meet expectations. Consistent silver is not the goal. Eradicating female coaches, or male coaches for that matter, is not the answer. It will be interesting to see how Canada responds.
    yes yes yes. So true. They bombed all quadrennial, each of the four years. Their silver medal failure was not an anomaly. This falls squarely on the shoulders of the GM who still according to latest reports has not been fired. In any other job she would have been fired in year 3 of the quadrennial before the Olympics. Certain players also I think just got cocky or underdelivered and underwhelmed. Like Jenner. Some of the younger players, surprisingly, showed up, and were playing to win for gold, as did veteran haley irwin, who gets hate from only stupid people.

    if year 1 of the upcoming quadrennial (which starts in several months) is anything like year 1 of the last quadrennial, when the head coach did not know what he was doing and the team can't perform, then start cutting Jenner, wakefield, mel davidson, and others. Must send tough message.

    Brianna Decker was named an assistant coach with the team usa U18 women's team. This will be interesting. Of course, not head coach, but still will be interesting to see if the team can defend their quadrennial record sweep of gold over canada. Another thing for team canada women to develop, the U18s and the quadrennial of losses they suffered just like the national team . Wow. This program is actually worse than I thought.
    Last edited by Chaffron; 05-25-2018 at 11:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaffron View Post
    Ken Hitchcock retired from head coaching the dallas stars just months ago and unfortunately is serving in some consultant role with the team, i believe. This is unfortunate because he has great respect for women, great respect for the women's game, and speaks very highly about women and the hockey game that they play and so it is sad that he will not be in the conversation to coach the national team. His coaching tenure with the Blues shows that he is a master at tactics and strategy even when with a not as skilled team before him. This would be perfect for team canada women. But no, he will not be coaching them.



    yes yes yes. So true. They bombed all quadrennial, each of the four years. Their silver medal failure was not an anomaly. This falls squarely on the shoulders of the GM who still according to latest reports has not been fired. In any other job she would have been fired in year 3 of the quadrennial before the Olympics. Certain players also I think just got cocky or underdelivered and underwhelmed. Like Jenner. Some of the younger players, surprisingly, showed up, and were playing to win for gold, as did veteran haley irwin, who gets hate from only stupid people.

    if year 1 of the upcoming quadrennial (which starts in several months) is anything like year 1 of the last quadrennial, when the head coach did not know what he was doing and the team can't perform, then start cutting Jenner, wakefield, mel davidson, and others. Must send tough message.

    Brianna Decker was named an assistant coach with the team usa U18 women's team. This will be interesting. Of course, not head coach, but still will be interesting to see if the team can defend their quadrennial record sweep of gold over canada. Another thing for team canada women to develop, the U18s and the quadrennial of losses they suffered just like the national team . Wow. This program is actually worse than I thought.
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial

    Think you used this word enough in your rant?!
    Last edited by shelfit; 05-26-2018 at 12:54 AM.

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by shelfit View Post
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial
    quadrennial

    Think you used this word enough in your rant?!
    When Chaffron has a hobbyhorse, that sucker gets ridden hard and put way wet.

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Could be thinner related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Still Eeyore View Post
    When Chaffron has a hobbyhorse, that sucker gets ridden hard and put way wet.
    Lol, well said!

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Mel Davidson fired!

    http://www.cbc.ca/sports/olympics/ho...bury-1.4762389

    But i cannot say that her replacement is any better. This may turn out to be Laura Schuler 2.0

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Still trying to find in the story where Mel got fired. Usually when someone gets fired, they do not assume another role with the same organization or are they quoted in the press release announcing the change!

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Puckdrop14 View Post
    Still trying to find in the story where Mel got fired. Usually when someone gets fired, they do not assume another role with the same organization or are they quoted in the press release announcing the change!
    It is not at all hard to come to the conclusion that this was a firing. Of course, Davidson has given so much to the organization for 20 years that they are not going to come out and tell the world that she is fired. That would just be bad optics for hockey canada and unfair to Mel. When one reads between the lines, it is obvious. Actually, not even reading between the lines. There are many statements put forth by all parties involved to suggest this was a firing.

    1.
    Davidson: "We brought Gina in with the intent of eventually taking things over. This might have happened a little faster than she thought it would"
    "I certainly didn't see this type of transition this quickly," Kingsbury told The Canadian Press"
    Interesting. while all acknowledge that kingsbury was brought in to eventually succeed Mel, all acknowledged that it wasn't supposed to happen so soon. This totally suggests a change that the head people desperately wanted/needed after this season (ie. losing Olympics, winning a total of 0 gold medals in every Four Nations, Worlds, Olympics, since 2014)

    Davidson: "The sad thing is you can't just go to another organization. There's not one. In the women's game, it's not like the men's game.I asked Hockey Canada if they would consider keeping me in that [scouting] role."
    Davidson laments the fact that she has no other organization to go to. She gets to keep a scouting job as consolation. This was basically a demotion. Or what i think happened, is that Mel got fired point blank, but asked (perhaps begged) to stay in the organization in some capacity. After giving more than 20 years to Hockey Canada women's program, the head people of course could not fire her. It would look terrible and they for sure owed her something for her years of dedication to the women's program. GM--> scout is definitely a demotion.

    overall, it is clear that hockey canada could not come out to all and say that they fired mel davidson. She is not just some temporary quadrennial GM, but has been with hockey canada in basically every capacity in the women's game since time immemorial. They have too much respect to do that. And donna spencer's articles usually are very sugarcoated and rah-rah women's empowerment canada is the best rah-rah and so her reporting would definitely not try to hint at anything other than mel davidson is a legend.
    Last edited by Chaffron; 07-27-2018 at 01:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaffron View Post
    It is not at all hard to come to the conclusion that this was a firing. Of course, Davidson has given so much to the organization for 20 years that they are not going to come out and tell the world that she is fired. That would just be bad optics for hockey canada and unfair to Mel. When one reads between the lines, it is obvious. Actually, not even reading between the lines. There are many statements put forth by all parties involved to suggest this was a firing.

    1.


    Interesting. while all acknowledge that kingsbury was brought in to eventually succeed Mel, all acknowledged that it wasn't supposed to happen so soon. This totally suggests a change that the head people desperately wanted/needed after this season (ie. losing Olympics, winning a total of 0 gold medals in every Four Nations, Worlds, Olympics, since 2014)



    Davidson laments the fact that she has no other organization to go to. She gets to keep a scouting job as consolation. This was basically a demotion. Or what i think happened, is that Mel got fired point blank, but asked (perhaps begged) to stay in the organization in some capacity. After giving more than 20 years to Hockey Canada women's program, the head people of course could not fire her. It would look terrible and they for sure owed her something for her years of dedication to the women's program. GM--> scout is definitely a demotion.

    overall, it is clear that hockey canada could not come out to all and say that they fired mel davidson. She is not just some temporary quadrennial GM, but has been with hockey canada in basically every capacity in the women's game since time immemorial. They have too much respect to do that. And donna spencer's articles usually are very sugarcoated and rah-rah women's empowerment canada is the best rah-rah and so her reporting would definitely not try to hint at anything other than mel davidson is a legend.
    Phew, thank goodness you used "quadrennial" in your post. I was getting worried for a moment there!

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    I wonder with an SLU alum now at the helm, will Matt Desrosiers get back on the 2022 Olympic coaching radar?

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    I wonder with an SLU alum now at the helm, will Matt Desrosiers get back on the 2022 Olympic coaching radar?
    No. no chance whatsoever. they don't care about those things. As far as i can tell, Gina Kingsbury is another Mel Davidson 2.0. She is still being mentored by mel and they still work in tandem.

    the feminist crusade in this program is real. It will never go away with Mel still sticking around. Besides, you read what Gina Kingsbury said in that article. They want coaches to be women alums who played.

    The only coach who Gina Kingsbury may select for 2022 consideration is perhaps Shannon miller whom she has extensive connections with and that is how shannon miller got the calgary inferno job. It was through Gina Kingsbury.

    I am guessing that some inexperienced woman will lead team canada women this upcoming season, and depending on whether they have another failing season where they win 0 things, they will replace this inexperienced woman with another inexperienced woman. Then, they start hiring the 2020-2021 coach a year ahead of the olympics. If all the inexperienced alum are bad and have losing records all quadrennial, then shannon miller will be considered.

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    Re: 2018 Canada's Olympic Women's Hockey Team

    quite ironic that Mel Davidson laments the fact that she can never go to another organization because she is a woman and the women's game basically has nowhere left for her to go. If she had these same results in the men's league, as a MAN, she would have been totally fired and not been able to ask for a job in a lesser capacity. Especially given the horrendous results under her leadership, everything from results, selection of coaches, selection of coaches and results at ALL levels (U18, National team haven't won anything since 2014), national u22 team....

    of course, men also find it easier to bounce to other teams probably, but still. If mel were a MAN in charge of a men's league there would be no question. Would not even be able to stay in the organization.

    wickenheiser recently ripped this team and basically says they are bad. I agree.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    I wonder with an SLU alum now at the helm, will Matt Desrosiers get back on the 2022 Olympic coaching radar?
    What a great observation. Between merit and the SLU connection, and maybe even more the fact that his wife played with Gina, you would think heís on the radar. I am very curious to see who gets names 4 Nations coaches for both US and Canada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindsay View Post
    What a great observation. Between merit and the SLU connection, and maybe even more the fact that his wife played with Gina, you would think heís on the radar. I am very curious to see who gets names 4 Nations coaches for both US and Canada.
    I think it's obvious that Chaffron should be named the TC head coach for the next quadrennial. Lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaffron View Post
    No. no chance whatsoever. they don't care about those things. As far as i can tell, Gina Kingsbury is another Mel Davidson 2.0. She is still being mentored by mel and they still work in tandem.

    the feminist crusade in this program is real. It will never go away with Mel still sticking around. Besides, you read what Gina Kingsbury said in that article. They want coaches to be women alums who played.

    The only coach who Gina Kingsbury may select for 2022 consideration is perhaps Shannon miller whom she has extensive connections with and that is how shannon miller got the calgary inferno job. It was through Gina Kingsbury.

    I am guessing that some inexperienced woman will lead team canada women this upcoming season, and depending on whether they have another failing season where they win 0 things, they will replace this inexperienced woman with another inexperienced woman. Then, they start hiring the 2020-2021 coach a year ahead of the olympics. If all the inexperienced alum are bad and have losing records all quadrennial, then shannon miller will be considered.
    I thought you said Mel was fired? Please make up your mind and do it before the end of this quadrennial!

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