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Thread: Regional Rankings

  1. #181
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    Again, if there's going to be AQ's awarded -and yes there are-** let's go with the RS champs (a la FCS football) for the sake of evaluating much more data, then eliminate Pool B and award the 5 AL's on the basis of a statistically credible metric. I could live with that.
    **The individual conference may do such if it is their preference !


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  2. #182
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    Again, if there's going to be AQ's awarded -and yes there are- let's go with the RS champs (a la FCS football) for the sake of evaluating much more data, then eliminate Pool B and award the 5 AL's on the basis of a statistically credible metric. I could live with that.
    Pool B is intended to give the teams that don't have an AQ the same opportunity as teams with a qualifying Conference. The number of Pool B bids is determined by using the same ratio as there are Pool A bids to schools. Total the number of Schools in Qualifying Conferences divide by the the number of Pool A bids. That number is called the access ratio, and that ratio determines the number of Pool B schools it takes for a pool B slot. Right now there are 65 teams in 7 Pool A conferences. That means the access ratio is 65:7 = 9.28:1. There is one Pool B slot available for every 9.28 MIAC, UCHC, and Independent teams. Since there. are 9 + 5 + 2 = 16 such teams, there is one Pool B slot (The NCAA usually truncates rather than rounds for these calculations , as 16/9.28 = 1.72.

    When the UCHC gets its Pool A status, the access ratio will be 74:8 = 9.25, and since there will only be 7 Pool B schools, the Pool B bid will go away.
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  3. #183
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Pool B is intended to give the teams that don't have an AQ the same opportunity as teams with a qualifying Conference. The number of Pool B bids is determined by using the same ratio as there are Pool A bids to schools. Total the number of Schools in Qualifying Conferences divide by the the number of Pool A bids. That number is called the access ratio, and that ratio determines the number of Pool B schools it takes for a pool B slot. Right now there are 65 teams in 7 Pool A conferences. That means the access ratio is 65:7 = 9.28:1. There is one Pool B slot available for every 9.28 MIAC, UCHC, and Independent teams. Since there. are 9 + 5 + 2 = 16 such teams, there is one Pool B slot (The NCAA usually truncates rather than rounds for these calculations , as 16/9.28 = 1.72.

    When the UCHC gets its Pool A status, the access ratio will be 74:8 = 9.25, and since there will only be 7 Pool B schools, the Pool B bid will go away.
    Rings a bell, thanks.

    I'm guessing that the upcoming elimination of Pool B will have close to zero effect on the field's selection, since, in a typical year, the Pool B selection would seem very likely to garner a Pool C, regardless.

    (I do like the fact that Pool B's elimination kinda streamlines the process.)
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-25-2018 at 04:46 PM.

  4. #184
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by nuprof View Post
    pool b is intended to give the teams that don't have an aq the same opportunity as teams with a qualifying conference. The number of pool b bids is determined by using the same ratio as there are pool a bids to schools. Total the number of schools in qualifying conferences divide by the the number of pool a bids. That number is called the access ratio, and that ratio determines the number of pool b schools it takes for a pool b slot. Right now there are 65 teams in 7 pool a conferences. That means the access ratio is 65:7 = 9.28:1. There is one pool b slot available for every 9.28 miac, uchc, and independent teams. Since there. Are 9 + 5 + 2 = 16 such teams, there is one pool b slot (the ncaa usually truncates rather than rounds for these calculations , as 16/9.28 = 1.72.

    When the uchc gets its pool a status, the access ratio will be 74:8 = 9.25, and since there will only be 7 pool b schools, the pool b bid will go away.
    wiac?
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  5. #185
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    wiac?
    If there was no Pool B this year, Point would easily get in via Pool C anyway, IMO... I don't think Pool B will be missed in any meaningful way going forward.

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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    wiac?
    WIAC has 5 teams, the post UCHC pool B eligible teams are the 5 WIAC teams and 2 independents. They fall automatically into Pool C
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  7. #187
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    WIAC has 5 teams, the post UCHC pool B eligible teams are the 5 WIAC teams and 2 independents. They fall automatically into Pool C
    Pretty sure that's what I said...Point would get a Pool C in any case, this year.

  8. #188
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    Pretty sure that's what I said...Point would get a Pool C in any case, this year.
    (for once) not disagreeing with you, but clarifying for the person who posted "wiac?"
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  9. #189
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    my point was in the post was reference to the MIAC, UCHC and independent teams competing for Pool B.

    IIRC, MIAC has an AQ. And perhaps that was supposed to be a WIAC reference
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  10. #190
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    my point was in the post was reference to the MIAC, UCHC and independent teams competing for Pool B.

    IIRC, MIAC has an AQ. And perhaps that was supposed to be a WIAC reference
    Imagine every single team, irrespective of any conference affiliation, competing via a statistically-valid continuum... Is that really completely impossible? (Of course it isn't! This cluster-fu3k D-3 chooses to embrace is of its own making.)

    And, the field wouldn't be much different in that Utopian scenario than it would be anyway, via the current process... But, no team would feel "screwed", because the metics would be transparent and defensible. (And, in most years, most every conference would get a representative in, just the same.)

    So, why not?
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-25-2018 at 08:09 PM.

  11. #191
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    Imagine every single team, irrespective of any conference affiliation, competing via a statistically-valid continuum... Is that really completely impossible? (Of course it isn't! This cluster-fu3k D-3 chooses to embrace is of its own making.)

    And, the field wouldn't be much different in that Utopian scenario than it would be anyway, via the current process... But, no team would feel "screwed", because the metics would be transparent and defensible.

    So, why not?
    OK, once again - this IS NOT a D3 hockey thing. (Unless I am missing your point somewhere.) All NCAA team sports but D1 football do this... Your (uphill) battle may be bigger than you think.
    Last edited by GB Puck Fan; 02-25-2018 at 08:10 PM.
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  12. #192
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    OK, once again - this IS NOT a D3 hockey thing. (Unless I am missing your point somewhere.) All NCAA team sports but D1 football do this... Your (uphill) battle may be bigger than you think.
    D-1 hockey employs an objective measure to fill-out most of its field, for example, and even big-money D-1 hoops publicly cites the RPI when selecting AL's -of which there are many- and FCS football's process isn't anywhere as near as murky as D-3's hockey is... It's really doesn't amount to rocket-science, to make things more objective across the board in all college sports.

    To argue against that progress smacks of some version of the old-boy-network/sports-gerrymandering mindset. Why anyone would resist the prospect of a more level playing-field is truly beyond me.

    The better teams will still get in, FCS, not to worry, but no truly deserving team will be left-out for some mysterious "reason"
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-25-2018 at 09:04 PM.

  13. #193
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    What is not obective (or objective enough) about these:

    Win-lost percentage against Division III opponents (WIN)
    Division III head-to-head results (H2H)
    Results versus common Division III opponents (COP)
    Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included (RNK)
    Division III strength of schedule (SOS)*
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  14. #194
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    my point was in the post was reference to the MIAC, UCHC and independent teams competing for Pool B.

    IIRC, MIAC has an AQ. And perhaps that was supposed to be a WIAC reference
    Typo
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  15. #195
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Typo
    ah. makes sense. I confuse easily sometimes!
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  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    What is not obective (or objective enough) about these:

    Win-lost percentage against Division III opponents (WIN)
    Division III head-to-head results (H2H)
    Results versus common Division III opponents (COP)
    Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included (RNK)
    Division III strength of schedule (SOS)*
    Looking at this criteria for NCAA selection Salve and UNE have to be a lock no matter what happens next weekend in the CCC finals. Their numbers are just too good. If Salve or UNE are matched up against either Trinity or Geneseo for a pool C salve/UNE get in. Neither Trinity or Geneseo have beaten anyone this year. Look at their schedules.

  17. #197
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by GB Puck Fan View Post
    What is not obective (or objective enough) about these:

    Win-lost percentage against Division III opponents (WIN)
    Division III head-to-head results (H2H)
    Results versus common Division III opponents (COP)
    Results versus ranked Division III teams as established by the rankings at the time of selection. Conference postseason contests are included (RNK)
    Division III strength of schedule (SOS)*
    There's a couple of things...

    1. "RNK" has an arbitrary "cliff" involved, and no such cliff makes any statistical sense. For example, say SNC was 23-1 this year, but was 0-1 via "RNK"... It would lose a lot -or perhaps all- of the "RNK" comparisons, even with a stellar SOS. Dumb. Every comparison needs to be made along a continuum that includes every single team and every single game. Otherwise, the process smacks of cherry-picking.

    2. And,as far as I know, there's still a set of fungible "secondary criteria", which the committee can employ with impunity, thus rendering the entire primary criteria moot... That begs the question: Why even bother with the smoke-screen in the first place?
    Last edited by Fishman'81; 02-26-2018 at 10:01 PM.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    There's a couple of things...

    1. "RNK" has an arbitrary "cliff" involved, and no such cliff makes any statistical sense. For example, say SNC was 23-1 this year, but was 0-1 via "RNK"... It would lose a lot -or perhaps all- of the "RNK" comparisons, even with a stellar SOS. Dumb. Every comparison needs to be made along a continuum that includes every single team and every single game. Otherwise, the process smacks of cherry-picking.

    2. And,as far as I know, there's still a set of fungible "secondary criteria", which the committee can employ with impunity, thus rendering the entire primary criteria moot... That begs the question: Why even bother with the smoke-screen in the first place?
    Wrong.. keep trying

  19. #199
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman'81 View Post

    1. "RNK" has an arbitrary "cliff" involved, and no such cliff makes any statistical sense. For example, say SNC was 23-1 this year, but was 0-1 via "RNK"... It would lose a lot -or perhaps all- of the "RNK" comparisons, even with a stellar SOS. Dumb. Every comparison needs to be made along a continuum that includes every single team and every single game. Otherwise, the process smacks of cherry-picking.
    How would you have 23 wins and a "stellar" SOS and only play one ranked opponent?
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    Re: Regional Rankings

    Tick tick tick !
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