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Thread: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    Well E.J. 15 years ago this March they won their second of their two HE titles and in April lost in the FF final. Last 5 years, yes.
    When I said 15 years I was being charitable, I’d say it actually goes back to the loss to CC in the late 90s.

    Just because it occasionally works doesn’t mean you weren’t playing not to lose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    In reference to Ray Dorn's original post about our team playing not to lose in the third and OT, I thought that we were playing not to lose from opening whistle in the 2003 NC game, holding one of out forwards back on the attack. And, all that did was give Vanek one more of our guys to skate around.
    If UNH has attempted to go up and down the ice with Minnesota that would have been blown out. Instead of using the perjorative “playing not to lose” how about “giving our team the best opportunity to win?” And don’t forget UNH played without Lanny Gare, who was their best defensive forward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E.J. Smith View Post
    When I said 15 years I was being charitable, I’d say it actually goes back to the loss to CC in the late 90s.

    Just because it occasionally works doesn’t mean you weren’t playing not to lose.
    Just lost all credibility my friend. Late 90’s when they lost to CC? That would be 1997, the year before they started the run of four FF in six years. If you’re going back two decades, why not go back four or more, when they lost to RPI at home? Or 1976, when they lost to Harvard at home? You know, UNH should have beat BU in 1969! Why does the school even field a hockey team?

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    So, UNH is now officially the lowest scoring team in HE. 40 goals in 27 games. This will be a compelling race as we head down to the finish line.

    UNH 40
    Merrimack 41
    Vermont 42
    UMass 43

    UNH hockey saw the shadow of its former self, so four more weeks of Umile, maybe five if they win the play-in round.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 02-05-2018 at 10:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    So, UNH is now officially the lowest scoring team in HE. 40 goals in 27 games.
    No Grasso, fewer goals from McNick/Sal and no TyK scoring make the difference...along with fewer PP goals. Thank heaven for the PK; seems we've been to the box more than usual but don't have the stats in front of me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    Just lost all credibility my friend. Late 90’s when they lost to CC? That would be 1997, the year before they started the run of four FF in six years. If you’re going back two decades, why not go back four or more, when they lost to RPI at home? Or 1976, when they lost to Harvard at home? You know, UNH should have beat BU in 1969! Why does the school even field a hockey team?
    Geez, I’m crushed.

    How many of those FFs did they win? Because they had the talent to win at least 2 of them.

    For the past 5 years we’ve been obsessed with the lack of talent coming to Durham but that’s only served to make us forget what a bad game coach DU was/is. Back in the day the talent papered that over, until it was down to the true cream of the crop, when even superior talent couldn’t carry him, I’d argue that on as many as 3 occasions during DU’s time UNH was the most talented team in the country. And yet we’re still waiting for our first NC.

    You were never smart enough to understand that and now you’re too old to learn. Unfortunate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by E.J. Smith View Post
    Geez, I’m crushed.

    How many of those FFs did they win? Because they had the talent to win at least 2 of them.

    For the past 5 years we’ve been obsessed with the lack of talent coming to Durham but that’s only served to make us forget what a bad game coach DU was/is. Back in the day the talent papered that over, until it was down to the true cream of the crop, when even superior talent couldn’t carry him, I’d argue that on as many as 3 occasions during DU’s time UNH was the most talented team in the country. And yet we’re still waiting for our first NC.

    You were never smart enough to understand that and now you’re too old to learn. Unfortunate.
    EJ, you are giving my favorite all-time poster here Jacques "Rabbit" Porriveau a run for his money. Could not agree more on in-game coaching, never able to make adjustments, even during 15-minute intermissions. I think that the debacle of an implosion to RIT at the Albany regional in 2010 did it for me.

    Greg, we will never agree on the 2003 NC game; we still had a couple of lines that could have run with the Golphs if they had been given a chance, even without Lanny.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by E.J. Smith View Post
    For the past 5 years we’ve been obsessed with the lack of talent coming to Durham but that’s only served to make us forget what a bad game coach DU was/is. Back in the day the talent papered that over, until it was down to the true cream of the crop, when even superior talent couldn’t carry him, I’d argue that on as many as 3 occasions during DU’s time UNH was the most talented team in the country. And yet we’re still waiting for our first NC.
    Pretty harsh ... but not entirely inaccurate. I'd go with "average" or "mediocre" at worst myself, 'cuz if he was truly "bad", I'm not sure he would have been able to sustain an overall winning program as long as he did. Did he have help along the way? Loads of it, oh yeah. Do you get that help - or do you get that otherworldly talent to commit to play for you - if you're "bad" and cruise along on simply being "Mr. Personality"? I doubt it. But overall, it's a very fair point (and one you've raised many times before, to be fair).

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    So, UNH is now officially the lowest scoring team in HE. 40 goals in 27 games. This will be a compelling race as we head down to the finish line.


    UNH hockey saw the shadow of its former self, so four more weeks of Umile, maybe five if they win the play-in round.
    The Punxsutawney Phil reference is priceless. I think that we have all been living Ground Hog Day in Durham for far too long. At least Bill Murray's character eventually figured out how to break thru the problem, unlike our dear Leader(S).

    Dick or BS35 saw their shadow when they came out of the bunker, meaning 4 or 5 more weeks of turtlenecks. Does the bobble head have a turtleneck? Does it also whistle if you play too long?

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose View Post
    JB surprised at you. My recollection of that game was the goaltending, both Curry and Ayers. And, of course, Teplitsky to Whitney. The idea that teams would play not to lose a championship game is ludicrous.
    To me that was a championship game setup for UNH to blow BU out of the building. That BU team was gassed by the 10 minute mark of the 1st period - from the very late night before. BU had a few chances on some bad D play by UNH and Ayers bailed them out. Otherwise BU spent the vast majority of the night just getting the puck far enough out of zone to get a line change. In those days you could line change on an icing and BU iced it a ton. Conversely UNH spent the night getting the puck to the redline dumping it in and making BU play defense. The not to lose strategy of waiting for BU to be tired and falter made that game much harder.

    I thought UNH played much better in the NCAAs that year and didn't have a huge issue with the strategy in the NCAA Championship game. Trying to skate with that Minnesota team wouldn't have gone well. It worked for 2 periods until Vanek decided to be interested in the game.
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    To me that was a championship game setup for UNH to blow BU out of the building. That BU team was gassed by the 10 minute mark of the 1st period - from the very late night before. BU had a few chances on some bad D play by UNH and Ayers bailed them out. Otherwise BU spent the vast majority of the night just getting the puck far enough out of zone to get a line change. In those days you could line change on an icing and BU iced it a ton. Conversely UNH spent the night getting the puck to the redline dumping it in and making BU play defense. The not to lose strategy of waiting for BU to be tired and falter made that game much harder.

    I thought UNH played much better in the NCAAs that year and didn't have a huge issue with the strategy in the NCAA Championship game. Trying to skate with that Minnesota team wouldn't have gone well. It worked for 2 periods until Vanek decided to be interested in the game.
    That's my recollection as well. Got really lucky to have a weak backhand centering pass deflect in, otherwise another Umiliation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    I thought UNH played much better in the NCAAs that year and didn't have a huge issue with the strategy in the NCAA Championship game. Trying to skate with that Minnesota team wouldn't have gone well. It worked for 2 periods until Vanek decided to be interested in the game.
    Who knows? Perhaps if we had put some points on the board before Vanek got interested in the game, his goals would not have been so devastating. But, kinda hard to win a game when you are coached not to try to score goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Who knows? Perhaps if we had put some points on the board before Vanek got interested in the game, his goals would not have been so devastating. But, kinda hard to win a game when you are coached not to try to score goals.
    Let's not forget that UNH skated with Minnesota for an entire weekend earlier that same season, winning 3-1 and tying 5-5. The idea that MN was a dramatically better team that UNH couldn't keep up is hindsight rooted in the fact that after the Gophers went ahead 2-1 things got away from UNH.

    I'd like to hear specifics as to why posters think that UNH has been playing not to lose recently? Umile's history of coaching 'tight' not withstanding, what indicates that's happening now?

    When you watch UNH fail to skate with NU, dump pucks and or defend often - its (again) because they CANNOT skate with NU. NU is significantly more talented and skilled, so of course they'll make UNH look slow, cautious and defensively oriented. I don't buy that they're being coached to play not to lose, it's all about the lack of actual talent...
    Last edited by Dan; 02-05-2018 at 02:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Let's not forget that UNH skated with Minnesota for an entire weekend earlier that same season, winning 3-1 and tying 5-5. The idea that MN was a dramatically better team that UNH couldn't keep up is hindsight rooted in the fact that after the Gophers went ahead 2-1 things got away from UNH.

    I'd like to hear specifics as to why posters think that UNH has been playing not to lose recently? Umile's history of coaching 'tight' not withstanding, what indicates that's happening now?

    When you watch UNH fail to skate with NU, dump pucks and or defend often - its (again) because they CANNOT skate with NU. NU is significantly more talented and skilled, so of course they'll make UNH look slow, cautious and defensively oriented. I don't buy that they're being coached to play not to lose, it's all about the lack of actual talent...
    I agree about recent seasons, as we rarely have a lead to sit on, and usually are playing catch up against the likes of Army. Perhaps the Brown game would be a good example the other way, IIRC?

    I piled on this complaint based primarily on the coaching when we had those good teams, commonly scored first, sometimes in the first minute of the game, and then would try to coast the rest of the game.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    Let's not forget that UNH skated with Minnesota for an entire weekend earlier that same season, winning 3-1 and tying 5-5. The idea that MN was a dramatically better team that UNH couldn't keep up is hindsight rooted in the fact that after the Gophers went ahead 2-1 things got away from UNH.

    I'd like to hear specifics as to why posters think that UNH has been playing not to lose recently? Umile's history of coaching 'tight' not withstanding, what indicates that's happening now?

    When you watch UNH fail to skate with NU, dump pucks and or defend often - its (again) because they CANNOT skate with NU. NU is significantly more talented and skilled, so of course they'll make UNH look slow, cautious and defensively oriented. I don't buy that they're being coached to play not to lose, it's all about the lack of actual talent...
    Funny you mention the NU game; we were talking about the lack of risk taking (like, the D jumping into the rush) but understood that to do so would be tough given the level of competition we were playing. I'm not going to 'rip' any of the players; it is what it is. I was thrilled we got out of that game with the tie; wasn't what I expected going in that's for sure.

    Now, in the next game (UMass) that second goal of theirs (which was disallowed thankfully) could've made things interesting. It's been rare to see UNH (this season) ramp it up to protect that lead as we've seen i.e. Brown for whatever reason. So, I don't think they are being coached not to lose; they should be coached to exceed whatever is being thrown at them. Of course, that depends on the ability of the team, doesn't it?
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Who knows? Perhaps if we had put some points on the board before Vanek got interested in the game, his goals would not have been so devastating. But, kinda hard to win a game when you are coached not to try to score goals.
    Not criticizing you, Snively65 ... but wow, how the worm has turned. I know it's hard to remember back that far sometimes, but once upon a time, UNH was criticized for being too wide open, and they were usually among the top scoring teams in the country for a good chunk of Coach Umile's first decade in charge (and not so infrequently afterwards too, for a few seasons anyway). A lot of us attributed UNH's post-season debacles ("Umile-ations") to his teams' failures to adapt to the more intense, less wide-open play usually encountered in the postseason. So he adjusted, right around the turn of the century, and those were his teams who came closest to getting to the top of the D-1 mountain. Sure, losses in big games did not go away, but those embarrassing blowouts seemed to decrease in frequency and scale. That's hard for me to say, since I was there in person in 2002 to watch UNH crater to UMaine in the FF semis, a few short weeks after they'd beaten the same UMaine squad in the HE Finals. And that wasn't Walshy behind the other bench - that was Tim Whitehead.

    Last March's Game Three instant collapse at Lowell was maybe a new experience for some of our newbies, but a brutally painful reminder to many of us who've seen those implosions in the past WAY too often. Sure, blowouts in winner-take-all games are infrequent, but it can happen to anyone, anywhere. But when it happens/happened so more frequently to a certain program under a certain coach, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and/or blind not to notice, and then not to ask questions/look for answers. EJ was right, not playing in those games in recent years has let us forget about this issue. I suppose that means Coach has outsmarted us, right ... ???
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    Not criticizing you, Snively65 ... but wow, how the worm has turned. I know it's hard to remember back that far sometimes, but once upon a time, UNH was criticized for being too wide open, and they were usually among the top scoring teams in the country for a good chunk of Coach Umile's first decade in charge (and not so infrequently afterwards too, for a few seasons anyway). A lot of us attributed UNH's post-season debacles ("Umile-ations") to his teams' failures to adapt to the more intense, less wide-open play usually encountered in the postseason. So he adjusted, right around the turn of the century, and those were his teams who came closest to getting to the top of the D-1 mountain. Sure, losses in big games did not go away, but those embarrassing blowouts seemed to decrease in frequency and scale. That's hard for me to say, since I was there in person in 2002 to watch UNH crater to UMaine in the FF semis, a few short weeks after they'd beaten the same UMaine squad in the HE Finals. And that wasn't Walshy behind the other bench - that was Tim Whitehead.

    Last March's Game Three instant collapse at Lowell was maybe a new experience for some of our newbies, but a brutally painful reminder to many of us who've seen those implosions in the past WAY too often. Sure, blowouts in winner-take-all games are infrequent, but it can happen to anyone, anywhere. But when it happens/happened so more frequently to a certain program under a certain coach, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and/or blind not to notice, and then not to ask questions/look for answers. EJ was right, not playing in those games in recent years has let us forget about this issue. I suppose that means Coach has outsmarted us, right ... ???
    I loved those wide-open games, especially when we had those speedy wingers on the big sheet at Lake Whitt. And, I loved watching us score in the opening minute(s) of games. But, it drove me nuts when we would sit back in the third, let the other team rack up SOG (as you rightly explain), and allow other teams back into games. But, that hold-back strategy in the 2003 NC game drove me more nuts than anything that I had seen before or have seen since. I got my 2003 FF tickets from a Michigan State fan from the old HockeyL board who an extra, so I had to explain to them that I was as perplexed as they were by the UNH strategy in that one. After Vanek's second goal, same guy told me that UNH would win a NC when the Red Sox win a WS. So, now it has been 14 years.
    Last edited by Snively65; 02-05-2018 at 08:06 PM.

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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    I loved those wide-open games, especially when we had those speedy wingers on the big sheet at Lake Whitt. And, I loved watching us score in the opening minute(s) of games. But, it drove me nuts when we would sit back in the third, let the other team rack up SOG (as you rightly explain), and allow other teams back into games. But, that hold-back strategy in the 2003 NC game drove me more nuts than anything that I had seen before or have seen since. I got my 2003 FF tickets from a Michigan State fan from the old HockeyL board who an extra, so I had to explain to them that I was as perplexed as they were by the UNH strategy in that one. After Vanek's second goal, same guy told me that UNH would win a NC when the Red Sox win a WS. So, now it has been 14 years.
    Maybe UNH is the Philadelphia Eagles of Cawlidge Hawkey?!?
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    Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Some more trivia for this 'woe is us' thread:

    21 Div 1 teams have hardware that includes at least one NC. Which team has the most NCAA appearances without a NC? Ans: Clarkson, with 20, and 7 FFs. UNH and St Lawrence are next, tied at 15, with 7 and 9 FFs, respectively.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snively65 View Post
    Some more trivia for this 'woe is us' thread:

    21 Div 1 teams have hardware that includes at least one NC. Which team has the most NCAA appearances without a NC? Ans: Clarkson, with 20, and 7 FFs. UNH and St Lawrence are next, tied at 15, with 7 and 9 FFs, respectively.
    UNH has 22 NCAA Tournament appearances, per USCHO.

    http://www.uscho.com/stats/history/n...key/2017-2018/

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