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  • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
    Nice heartfelt post zoofer...I'm sure many who have followed his career with its many ups, as well as disappointing downs, would agree with you 100% that he is indeed deserving of these accolades. It's all part of the history of the school and a sport we all love so well. Best wishes to you...
    I think that he would have been more deserving of accolades had he moved aside 5-6 years ago. Sorry, but these last few years have been a disaster. And, this year is looking like it could end as the worst yet.

    Comment


    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

      Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
      I think that he would have been more deserving of accolades had he moved aside 5-6 years ago. Sorry, but these last few years have been a disaster. And, this year is looking like it could end as the worst yet.
      You guys who have been here for the duration certainly have much you can be proud of...for new fans, maybe not as much. The losses when it counted in the Big Dance linger and that's always going to be the issue I imagine for many. That is understandable. And...I hear you about the past few years; tell me about it; I'm sure I'm in the 'red' when it comes to wins/losses.

      Watching those HE championships/Regional wins on the 'tron last night sure made me yearn for one...here's hoping in the next few years. The torch has been passed, it's time to move on. I am hopeful the new regime receives the support they deserve to bring UNH Hockey back into the forefront of HE and beyond. That is not going to happen overnight.

      That being said i do not regret one bit following this program, the awesome people I've met, and look forward to the future...whatever it holds.
      Last edited by HockeyRef; 02-11-2018, 03:03 PM.
      Here we go 'Cats!!

      Comment


      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

        Thanks HockeyRef.....🤙🤙 I think you hit the key difference.....for those fans of the last 5-8 years, there isn’t much of what made UNH hockey around! Unfortunately, the brain trust in the field house forgot what put UNH on the national stage.......there are many of us that are now hoping that Souza and Stewy can turn that around! Ask yourself how a top recruit would choose Lowell or Providence over the UNH campus that ranks nationally.......if the program gets the true support it needs to compete off the ice, it won’t be long before UNH gets back to those games of national importance!

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

          Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
          You guys who have been here for the duration certainly have much you can be proud of...for new fans, maybe not as much. The losses when it counted in the Big Dance linger and that's always going to be the issue I imagine for many. That is understandable. And...I hear you about the past few years; tell me about it; I'm sure I'm in the 'red' when it comes to wins/losses.

          Watching those HE championships/Regional wins on the 'tron last night sure made me yearn for one...here's hoping in the next few years. The torch has been passed, it's time to move on. I am hopeful the new regime receives the support they deserve to bring UNH Hockey back into the forefront of HE and beyond. That is not going to happen overnight.

          That being said i do not regret one bit following this program, the awesome people I've met, and look forward to the future...whatever it holds.
          I enjoyed reading a lot of the feedback and I'm frankly ambivalent about the events of the last couple of evenings to honor Coach Umile. There were so many good years and great experiences he brought the program through - not the least of which was the transformative construction of the Whittemore Center in the mid-'90s, which only happened when it did because of the upswing in the program that kicked in once Coach had been in charge for a few seasons. In retrospect, I'm sure it was going to happen at some point ... but to those who were not fortunate enough to have experienced those years, it's hard to explain the game-changer that The Whitt was at the time. BU was still playing in WBA, Conte (BC) was always predominantly designed as a basketball arena (as was Mullins in Amherst), and Tsongas was just coming on line a year or so after The Whitt. Places like The Gutt, Alfond and Mathews Arenas, and the North Andover High School Arena are still in place, and The Coffin a/k/a Scheider was only recently renovated. So maybe The Whitt wasn't as inevitable as some of us might think? And maybe Coach deserves more credit for that having happened?

          But the one sentence I highlighted in HR's post just highlights the daunting task that lies before Coach Souza and his staff, as we look ahead to the future of the UNH Hockey program. A lot - LOT - of Coach Umile's goodwill built up over the first 20 or so (give or take) of his career has been squandered in this decade. In fact, there's almost nothing left of it. Everything is in a downward spiral. And even the first couple of years where Coach Souza should enjoy a "honeymoon" period, that's really non-existent. He's already been here for the last three seasons, and those seasons have without question coincidentally (or not) been the longest (arguably only) extended truly down stretch during Coach Umile's 3 decades in charge.

          So I guess my point is, I'm not sure Coach Souza deserves anything more than he works to produce himself. And the early returns have hardly been encouraging. As much as we want to criticize (and even vilify at times) Coach Umile for staying around too long, and (apparently) insisting on having a say on his successor ... it takes two to tango, and to reiterate a point that I think others (including Dan) and myself have been making over and over in recent seasons, Coach Souza knew the deal coming in, and Day One of being head coach will not be September 2018. It was back in June 2015 when he was hired. And if he showed too much deference to his former coach by not putting his imprint on the program sooner ... then shame on him. To revisit a term overused during the offseason ... Coach Souza doesn't get a "mulligan" for the last three seasons. That was supposed to be his springboard. Patience for him and his future staff should be curtailed accordingly. Besides the fact that Coach Umile hand-picked Souza as his successor, I'd be tempted to say that Coach Umile himself arguably is the most aggrieved party for Souza's lack of success on the recruiting trails. If that's not prototypical boomerang UNH ironic "karma", I'm not sure I can think of a more apropos example.

          Final thought, and I'm sure 'Watcher and some of the other long-timers who raised criticisms of the process will have picked up on this already, given the timing of things ... Coach Josh McDaniels just recently walked away from a really good coaching opportunity to stay on as an assistant with his professional "alma mater", so to speak. There was no proclamation or announcement during all the publicity about how the mentor was going to basically open the book to his institutional knowledge and methods to the protégé that McDaniels was guaranteed diddly squat when the mentor eventually decides to "go fishing". I think his only REAL guarantee is that he'll get the last first interview AND a second interview. Query why this was not the way our esteemed uber-experienced AD played things with Coach Souza in June 2015? Especially after the way the last three seasons have only seen the program wallowing in a deeper state of mediocrity, when the recruiting experts among us were talking about how Borek had the pipeline looking so promising that deep tourney runs were predicted in 2017 and/or 2018?

          The idea that a national search is apparently NOT going to happen here, and that Coach Souza - who frankly has done little over the last three seasons to show he is ready for this HUGE challenge - is just going to walk into the head coach's job, is disappointing. I'm willing to see what decisions are going to be made to fill out his staff, whether Coach Stewart stays, and what comes of some of the interesting candidates' names that have been posted on this thread, or discussed in more discreet places. But the Souza Era will be starting on a short leash, at least from this corner. JMHO.
          Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
          Montreal Expos Forever ...

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

            Nicely written Chuck....many valid points to ponder.....I hope you’re wrong in any squandering going on but agree that in today’s game, Souza start 2 years ago haven’t been remarkable.....

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

              Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
              I enjoyed reading a lot of the feedback and I'm frankly ambivalent about the events of the last couple of evenings to honor Coach Umile. There were so many good years and great experiences he brought the program through - not the least of which was the transformative construction of the Whittemore Center in the mid-'90s, which only happened when it did because of the upswing in the program that kicked in once Coach had been in charge for a few seasons. In retrospect, I'm sure it was going to happen at some point ... but to those who were not fortunate enough to have experienced those years, it's hard to explain the game-changer that The Whitt was at the time. BU was still playing in WBA, Conte (BC) was always predominantly designed as a basketball arena (as was Mullins in Amherst), and Tsongas was just coming on line a year or so after The Whitt. Places like The Gutt, Alfond and Mathews Arenas, and the North Andover High School Arena are still in place, and The Coffin a/k/a Scheider was only recently renovated. So maybe The Whitt wasn't as inevitable as some of us might think? And maybe Coach deserves more credit for that having happened?

              But the one sentence I highlighted in HR's post just highlights the daunting task that lies before Coach Souza and his staff, as we look ahead to the future of the UNH Hockey program. A lot - LOT - of Coach Umile's goodwill built up over the first 20 or so (give or take) of his career has been squandered in this decade. In fact, there's almost nothing left of it. Everything is in a downward spiral. And even the first couple of years where Coach Souza should enjoy a "honeymoon" period, that's really non-existent. He's already been here for the last three seasons, and those seasons have without question coincidentally (or not) been the longest (arguably only) extended truly down stretch during Coach Umile's 3 decades in charge.

              So I guess my point is, I'm not sure Coach Souza deserves anything more than he works to produce himself. And the early returns have hardly been encouraging. As much as we want to criticize (and even vilify at times) Coach Umile for staying around too long, and (apparently) insisting on having a say on his successor ... it takes two to tango, and to reiterate a point that I think others (including Dan) and myself have been making over and over in recent seasons, Coach Souza knew the deal coming in, and Day One of being head coach will not be September 2018. It was back in June 2015 when he was hired. And if he showed too much deference to his former coach by not putting his imprint on the program sooner ... then shame on him. To revisit a term overused during the offseason ... Coach Souza doesn't get a "mulligan" for the last three seasons. That was supposed to be his springboard. Patience for him and his future staff should be curtailed accordingly. Besides the fact that Coach Umile hand-picked Souza as his successor, I'd be tempted to say that Coach Umile himself arguably is the most aggrieved party for Souza's lack of success on the recruiting trails. If that's not prototypical boomerang UNH ironic "karma", I'm not sure I can think of a more apropos example.

              Final thought, and I'm sure 'Watcher and some of the other long-timers who raised criticisms of the process will have picked up on this already, given the timing of things ... Coach Josh McDaniels just recently walked away from a really good coaching opportunity to stay on as an assistant with his professional "alma mater", so to speak. There was no proclamation or announcement during all the publicity about how the mentor was going to basically open the book to his institutional knowledge and methods to the protégé that McDaniels was guaranteed diddly squat when the mentor eventually decides to "go fishing". I think his only REAL guarantee is that he'll get the last first interview AND a second interview. Query why this was not the way our esteemed uber-experienced AD played things with Coach Souza in June 2015? Especially after the way the last three seasons have only seen the program wallowing in a deeper state of mediocrity, when the recruiting experts among us were talking about how Borek had the pipeline looking so promising that deep tourney runs were predicted in 2017 and/or 2018?

              The idea that a national search is apparently NOT going to happen here, and that Coach Souza - who frankly has done little over the last three seasons to show he is ready for this HUGE challenge - is just going to walk into the head coach's job, is disappointing. I'm willing to see what decisions are going to be made to fill out his staff, whether Coach Stewart stays, and what comes of some of the interesting candidates' names that have been posted on this thread, or discussed in more discreet places. But the Souza Era will be starting on a short leash, at least from this corner. JMHO.
              How short is that leash going to be Chuck? One season? And just how much 'power' did the guy have during this 'transition' was he expected to turn the team around into teams of the past? He's NOT the HC (yet) and none of us on this board have any real idea about just how much input he's had other than he runs the D and the PP. I think that's hardly a realistic POV given the circumstances, the recruits, etc. that have been in place when he arrived. Not to impugn any of the current players absolutely not. And yes the PP hasn't been exactly on fire but that's not entirely his fault if he doesn't have the finisher/playmakers of the past. (and yeah, not thrilled about our 5 on 3 if I was totally honest) But to determine how he's going to be as HC from these past 3 years which, I will say, was NOT an ideal situation for anyone, MS, or anyone else for that matter.

              Now...I do understand your (and others) points about recruiting results and I hope that we will hear more about that in the coming weeks to fill out what's needed on the team NOW and beyond. I'm encouraged by the recent recruits that have come our way like Ty Taylor, and Tim Stutzle. Really hopeful that Angus Crookshank develops quickly into that pure goal scorer at the D1 level they desperately need. But I just feel to say he's done 'little' over the past 3 years does him a great disservice. Granted...talk is cheap, and results, speak. He's got a lot to prove there is no doubt that he can indeed, turn the program around.

              That being said, no question he's got to produce competitive teams but it's not going to happen overnight. By overnight I am not talking about next season, maybe even the next 2. What would it realistically take? I believe he has a strong vision for the program. As a heavily invested fan I do indeed have big hopes and expectations for the new coach trust me on that. But man he doesn't even have the center spot yet and it's already doom and gloom. I say give the guy a fighting chance...not a choke collar.
              Last edited by HockeyRef; 02-11-2018, 08:18 PM.
              Here we go 'Cats!!

              Comment


              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                Umile accomplished a lot at UNH. He turned out some incredible teams and magical seasons. I'm happy his players revere him. I'm glad there is a family atmosphere at UNH. However, the unfortunate reality is that the turnout for Coach's weekend is directly correlated with the team's performance the last five years. Friends of the program and former players can be 'disappointed' with the fans if they wish - but the vast majority of the fault for that turnout lays at the feet of one man and not at the feet of a fan base that was gouged in the good times and has been ignored in the bad times...

                Originally posted by zoofer View Post
                Thanks HockeyRef.....���� I think you hit the key difference.....for those fans of the last 5-8 years, there isn’t much of what made UNH hockey around! Unfortunately, the brain trust in the field house forgot what put UNH on the national stage.......there are many of us that are now hoping that Souza and Stewy can turn that around! Ask yourself how a top recruit would choose Lowell or Providence over the UNH campus that ranks nationally.......if the program gets the true support it needs to compete off the ice, it won’t be long before UNH gets back to those games of national importance!
                UNH will NEVER sniff national importance again, UNTIL the excuses stop. The coach's job is to win with what he has. The athletic department is not immune in this. They could be more competitive. They could be more creative in generating revenue and fan interest. They could stop enabling mediocrity and these excuses. All that is true. What is not true, is that UNH Hockey does not have all it needs to win at the highest level. They have everything they need. The AD, those close to the program and especially the coaches need to stop imagining reasons why the program can't be successful and start doing what it takes so that it can be successful. Accountability, until then nothing changes...

                I'd love to hear specifics about what UNH isn't getting from the athletic department. What do they want that they don't have. Unless they are being prevented from traveling to recruit, have less than 18 scholarships to work with or assistant coach salaries haven't been bumped since Umile took over (only matters when you hire outside of your circle, anyway) than they have what they need.

                Facilities is certainly the wrong answer. There are TWO schools in the East with markedly better arenas/facilities than UNH - BU and BC. Everyone else is in the same general 'arena' (so to speak) or much worse. Many of the teams with much worse are winning. Clarkson is winning. Union has won for a decade. Northeastern is winning. Cornell and Harvard win with lesser facilities and actual admissions difficulties. Out West St. Cloud, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan and Western Michigan are winning, or have recently won, with less. UNH has a better arena than three Big Ten schools - two of which would be in the tournament if it started today.

                In general UNH competes with TWO types of schools. Schools that have basically the same facilities and budgets as UNH. And schools that have ALWAYS had better facilities and budgets than UNH. It never stopped them from competing before. What is different now than when Umile started his career? When UNH's facilities actually were awful and they still won (So much so that they EARNED upgrades, money and AD attention)? When they didn't make excuses?

                Tsongas Arena is a Whittemore Center clone that is off campus and shared. The renovations at Schneider have pulled it even with the Whitt. So why do both schools trump UNH in recruiting despite their campuses? Like the schools mentioned above, it has nothing to do with facilities and everything to do with having coaching staffs who make recruiting a priority, posses the confidence and drive to target high-end prospects and the enthusiasm, salesmanship and plan in place to close recruits.

                After falling asleep at the switch and failing to monitor the transcripts of recruits or emailing the wrong age groups, Umile was never willing to do what it took (being heavily involved) to re-claim the program's footing. Borek wasn't capable. Since Souza's arrival UNH has decided to take a casual approach to recruiting. Recruiting is why UNH finds itself behind so many other programs. Not facilities or anything else tangible they don't have. Umile, Borek, Souza, Stewart - they haven't been good enough and the program is suffering...

                Any coach - in any sport - making excuses like this are indicating they aren't up for the job. Its fair to quietly ask for - or want - better facilities and bigger budgets. In the meantime, you maximize what you have...
                Last edited by Dan; 02-11-2018, 08:35 PM.
                Live Free or Die!!
                Miami University '03

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                  Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                  How short is that leash going to be Chuck? One season? And just how much 'power' did the guy have during this 'transition' was he expected to turn the team around into teams of the past? He's NOT the HC (yet) and none of us on this board have any real idea about just how much input he's had other than he runs the D and the PP. I think that's hardly a realistic POV given the circumstances, the recruits, etc. that have been in place when he arrived. Not to impugn any of the current players absolutely not. And yes the PP hasn't been exactly on fire but that's not entirely his fault if he doesn't have the finisher/playmakers of the past. (and yeah, not thrilled about our 5 on 3 if I was totally honest) But to judge how he does coming into the center position from the very get go isn't entirely realistic.

                  Now...I do understand your (and others) points about recruiting results and I hope that we will hear more about that in the coming weeks to fill out what's needed on the team NOW and beyond. I'm encouraged by the recent recruits that have come our way like Ty Taylor, and Tim Stutzle. Really hopeful that Angus Crookshank develops quickly into that pure goal scorer at the D1 level they desperately need. But I just feel to say he's done 'little' over the past 3 years does him a great disservice. Granted...talk is cheap, and results, speak. He's got a lot to prove there is no doubt that he can indeed, turn the program around.

                  That being said, no question he's got to produce competitive teams but it's not going to happen overnight. By overnight I am talking about next season, maybe even the next 2. I believe he has a strong vision for the program. As a heavily invested fan I do indeed have big hopes and expectations for the new coach trust me on that. But man he doesn't even have the center spot yet and it's already doom and gloom. I say give the guy a fighting chance...not a choke collar.
                  The ONLY thing Souza needed to have control over was the one thing he ABSOLUTELY had full control over. Recruiting. Umile hasnt been directly involved in recruiting for decades - he wasn't starting in the last three years of his career. Souza has managed recruiting on his own and the results have not been good enough. There is simply no getting around that. His best gets to date have been players dropped by other programs months prior to the season. He's targeted a number of projects who projected as role players and haven't exceeded initial expectations. A number of high-end prospects decommitted on him initially - and Commesso did too. The pace of recruiting has been glacial and without any urgency. Its hard to review this one area in which he, undoubtedly, had full-control, see mediocrity and expect much when he is running the whole show...

                  Stutzle, Crookshank and Taylor are nice pick-ups. Still, we need to remember that a team with Poturalski and Kelleher and a bunch of role players stunk. That is the type of team they're building right now - A team with a few nice pieces and a lot of replaceable parts. Its not close to good enough yet. We also all know that a goaltender is only as good as the team in front of him. The team being built in front of Taylor right now is not good enough yet. Stutzle is years away and a huge flight risk to MJ. He has to get here first (Taylor, too). As for Crookshank - he's good. But he is more Liam Blackburn good than AP/TK or Jason Krog good. They need to start stacking Crookshanks if they want this boat to turnaround...

                  Souza has shown he's willing to drop a recruit (Darcy) when he recruits over him. The fact that he hasn't recruited over the remaining Borek recruits is another red flag. Its either because he hasn't been able to or he thinks they're the difference makers he needs. This is a three year body of work leading the recruiting charge for UNH. The results are mixed at the absolute best. He's also been in charge of the defense which is constantly maligned on this board (personnel not withstanding). The PP has proven completely stagnant sans a superstar forward and adjustments have been few and far between.

                  He had four-years of experience before coming here - its not really surprising or even his fault. It was a horrible position to put both him and the program into. That said, he starts year two on the hot-seat for me unless there is noticeable on-ice and, more importantly, recruiting improvement. If year one is noticeably bad and recruiting continues to sputter I wont even want him to get a second season. The three years starts his resume without question. If they recognize shortly after promotion, he isn't the guy for the job they need to do what they should have done in the first place. A national search for the highest qualified candidate. They can't afford a grace period. If he is given too long a leash, the program likely never recovers...

                  ---

                  And this is where concern about an apathetic Athletic Department with 'little UNH' syndrome has the potential to become a REAL problem. See Marty Scarano and the high-standards for the basketball program. That sort of future is a real possibility for UNH Hockey if they don't get this right...

                  The older posters can correct me if I'm wrong - but looking back, it seems like they were more than a bit lucky when replacing Holt. Kullen was a fairly experienced assistant - but was still the first of two in-house hires and he was a part of the Holt downfall. Umile had (yup!) four-years of assistant experience when he basically 'took over' as the 'associate head coach', then he was handed the full-time job and became an all-time great.

                  They can't simply count on getting lucky in this transition. They have to be proactive in making sure they get the right guy - no matter who it is or what it takes.
                  Last edited by Dan; 02-11-2018, 09:28 PM.
                  Live Free or Die!!
                  Miami University '03

                  Comment


                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                    Originally posted by Dan View Post
                    The ONLY thing Souza needed to have control over was the one thing he ABSOLUTELY had full control over. Recruiting. Umile hasnt been directly involved in recruiting for decades - he wasn't starting in the last three years of his career. Souza has managed recruiting on his own and the results have not been good enough. There is simply no getting around that. His best gets to date have been players dropped by other programs months prior to the season. He's targeted a number of projects who projected as role players and haven't exceeded initial expectations. A number of high-end prospects decommitted on him initially - and Commesso did too. The pace of recruiting has been glacial and without any urgency. Its hard to review this one area in which he, undoubtedly, had full-control, see mediocrity and expect much when he is running the whole show...

                    Stutzle, Crookshank and Taylor are nice pick-ups. Still, we need to remember that a team with Poturalski and Pesce and a bunch of role players stunk. That is the type of team they're building right now - A team with a few nice pieces and a lot of replaceable parts. Its not close to good enough yet. We also all know that a goaltender is only as good as the team in front of him. The team being built in front of Taylor right now is not good enough yet. Stutzle is years away and a huge flight risk to MJ. He has to get here first (Taylor, too). As for Crookshank - he's good. But he is more Liam Blackburn good than AP/TK or Jason Krog good. They need to start stacking Crookshanks if they want this boat to turnaround...

                    Souza has shown he's willing to drop a recruit (Darcy) when he recruits over him. The fact that he hasn't recruited over the remaining Borek recruits is another red flag. Its either because he hasn't been able to or he thinks they're the difference makers he needs. This is a three year body of work leading the recruiting charge for UNH. The results are mixed at the absolute best. He's also been in charge of the defense which is constantly maligned on this board (personnel not withstanding). The PP has proven completely stagnant sans a superstar forward and adjustments have been few and far between.

                    He had four-years of experience before coming here - its not really surprising or even his fault. It was a horrible position to put both him and the program into. That said, he starts year two on the hot-seat for me unless there is noticeable on-ice and, more importantly, recruiting improvement. If year one is noticeably bad and recruiting continues to sputter I wont even want him to get a second season. The three years starts his resume without question. If they recognize shortly after promotion, he isn't the guy for the job they need to do what they should have done in the first place. A national search for the highest qualified candidate. They can't afford a grace period. If he is given too long a leash, the program likely never recovers...

                    ---

                    And this is where concern about an apathetic Athletic Department with 'little UNH' syndrome has the potential to become a REAL problem. See Marty Scarano and the high-standards for the basketball program. That sort of future is a real possibility for UNH Hockey if they don't get this right...

                    The older posters can correct me if I'm wrong - but looking back, it seems like they were more than a bit lucky when replacing Holt. Kullen was a fairly experienced assistant - but was still the first of two in-house hires and he was a part of the Holt downfall. Umile had (yup!) four-years of assistant experience when he basically 'took over' as the 'associate head coach', then he was handed the full-time job and became an all-time great.

                    They can't simply count on getting lucky in this transition. They have to be proactive in making sure they get the right guy - no matter who it is or what it takes.
                    Many valid points here Dan...I agree that the recruiting is the single most important facet of any program and something that is measurable...The future of the program depends on it and we cannot afford to go another 5 years or I would honestly wonder how the program could sustain itself! I am truly hopeful, and watch with the rest of you.
                    Here we go 'Cats!!

                    Comment


                    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                      Originally posted by Dan View Post
                      He had four-years of experience before coming here - its not really surprising or even his fault. It was a horrible position to put both him and the program into. That said, he starts year two on the hot-seat for me unless there is noticeable on-ice and, more importantly, recruiting improvement. If year one is noticeably bad and recruiting continues to sputter I wont even want him to get a second season. The three years starts his resume without question. If they recognize shortly after promotion, he isn't the guy for the job they need to do what they should have done in the first place. A national search for the highest qualified candidate. They can't afford a grace period. If he is given too long a leash, the program likely never recovers...

                      ---

                      And this is where concern about an apathetic Athletic Department with 'little UNH' syndrome has the potential to become a REAL problem. See Marty Scarano and the high-standards for the basketball program. That sort of future is a real possibility for UNH Hockey if they don't get this right...
                      This will do for me. Having said that, I'm fascinated to see what Souza does to round out his staff for next season, and how they then get on with the work that lies ahead. He really needs to knock this out of the park to get a lot of us back on board, because truth be told, the first two & three-quarter seasons of The Great Three Year Plan have been an abysmal failure. So far. I don't think anything positive has been accomplished since June 2015, and even the low-hanging fruit of the NRN looks like it's going to end up just beyond Coach's grasp.

                      The idea that the UNH Hockey program has been parked in neutral for Souza's ascendancy only increases the pressure on him ... but it's hard to argue he didn't come into this with his eyes wide open. Maybe the ultimate UNH irony here is that while Souza's poor recruiting could have left his mentor short of any sort of storybook ending to his coaching career ... a sudden awakening and reverse of direction could end up being Coach Umile's ultimate "cherry on the ice cream sundae" gift to his UNH Hockey legacy, well after he's retired.

                      It's going to be a dour next edition of the Quest, and I suspect the season (and the Umile Era) are done in less than three weeks' time ... but the jury will be out on his final impact for a few years longer.
                      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                      Montreal Expos Forever ...

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                        Originally posted by Dan View Post
                        The ONLY thing Souza needed to have control over was the one thing he ABSOLUTELY had full control over. Recruiting. Umile hasnt been directly involved in recruiting for decades - he wasn't starting in the last three years of his career. Souza has managed recruiting on his own and the results have not been good enough. There is simply no getting around that. His best gets to date have been players dropped by other programs months prior to the season. He's targeted a number of projects who projected as role players and haven't exceeded initial expectations. A number of high-end prospects decommitted on him initially - and Commesso did too. The pace of recruiting has been glacial and without any urgency. Its hard to review this one area in which he, undoubtedly, had full-control, see mediocrity and expect much when he is running the whole show...

                        Stutzle, Crookshank and Taylor are nice pick-ups. Still, we need to remember that a team with Poturalski and Kelleher and a bunch of role players stunk. That is the type of team they're building right now - A team with a few nice pieces and a lot of replaceable parts. Its not close to good enough yet. We also all know that a goaltender is only as good as the team in front of him. The team being built in front of Taylor right now is not good enough yet. Stutzle is years away and a huge flight risk to MJ. He has to get here first (Taylor, too). As for Crookshank - he's good. But he is more Liam Blackburn good than AP/TK or Jason Krog good. They need to start stacking Crookshanks if they want this boat to turnaround...

                        Souza has shown he's willing to drop a recruit (Darcy) when he recruits over him. The fact that he hasn't recruited over the remaining Borek recruits is another red flag. Its either because he hasn't been able to or he thinks they're the difference makers he needs. This is a three year body of work leading the recruiting charge for UNH. The results are mixed at the absolute best. He's also been in charge of the defense which is constantly maligned on this board (personnel not withstanding). The PP has proven completely stagnant sans a superstar forward and adjustments have been few and far between.

                        He had four-years of experience before coming here - its not really surprising or even his fault. It was a horrible position to put both him and the program into. That said, he starts year two on the hot-seat for me unless there is noticeable on-ice and, more importantly, recruiting improvement. If year one is noticeably bad and recruiting continues to sputter I wont even want him to get a second season. The three years starts his resume without question. If they recognize shortly after promotion, he isn't the guy for the job they need to do what they should have done in the first place. A national search for the highest qualified candidate. They can't afford a grace period. If he is given too long a leash, the program likely never recovers...

                        ---

                        And this is where concern about an apathetic Athletic Department with 'little UNH' syndrome has the potential to become a REAL problem. See Marty Scarano and the high-standards for the basketball program. That sort of future is a real possibility for UNH Hockey if they don't get this right...

                        The older posters can correct me if I'm wrong - but looking back, it seems like they were more than a bit lucky when replacing Holt. Kullen was a fairly experienced assistant - but was still the first of two in-house hires and he was a part of the Holt downfall. Umile had (yup!) four-years of assistant experience when he basically 'took over' as the 'associate head coach', then he was handed the full-time job and became an all-time great.

                        They can't simply count on getting lucky in this transition. They have to be proactive in making sure they get the right guy - no matter who it is or what it takes.

                        I second the opinion that Dan should be a scout/recruiter/writer - great stuff as usual!

                        Totally agree with the recruiting concerns and they are 100% valid. I think the cupboards are more than bare at this point and the future of UNH is going to get worse before it gets better. You need talent and in the hockey east you need TOP talent. UNH on paper doesnt have that. Right now they are getting the leftovers/late decommits - that may work but your at a much higher risk of failure with that strategy. UNH has to land big time recruits and in turn those recruits attract recruits. Instead, UNH has been sitting on their hands watching as the 01/02/03 blue chip classes are picked clean. UNH will need a clear recruiting strategy and soon if they want to turn around the program and currently I aint seeing one.

                        Comment


                        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                          I guess the thing that is a concern to me regarding the comments about where Souza is, etc is the 'assumption' that the recruiters (Souza/Stewart) are sitting on their hands and letting these great players pass them by. Who in here really knows what they have, have not done, who they have, have not contacted? Do we honestly believe that UNH would be able to recruit 100% of these players? Belief factor has been mentioned and I agree; if you don't believe you can recruit them, then you probably won't. If the reality is that we just aren't doing that, then, I'll stop spending my $$ right now. I'd like to believe otherwise. I know we are basing much of this on the tangible, who's on paper, who's walking through that door and pulling the jersey over thier head and I get that. But that should be the only real truth to it; not that they haven't tried. This isn't something we, the average fan...are privvy to!

                          Take them away from their 'BeanPot Dreams' of playing for a Boston school? I had this same convo at the 'Whitt before a game with someone who felt that UNH just needs to attract these players away from the Boston schools. That would be great. (See Johnny Gaudreau and gosh knows how many others? Oh and yes I know the Johhny Hockey miss was admissions...) Well sure we could! Why not? I think a better question is...why AREN'T these blue chippahs showing up? It's too easy an answer to say they (coaches) aren't contacting them. Just too easy an answer. That's something I'd like to know...'coz I can't think of a better place to play than here!

                          I have no idea, none, nada on what these coaches are doing on a daily basis when it comes to recruiting. We can say 'well, just look at the results' and that does have validity. But to assume they are doing nothing? Come on...it's just not valid. It's the assumption that IF they contacted XYZ player, they'd def be on board. I think that is not reality. We'd be stacked beyond belief if that was true. You guys who really know how this works know that not every player takes the bait for whatever reason. If UNH is making excuses about facilities etc...well, that's ridiculous. Sure we do need upgrades to locker rooms but playing here, going to the University, has it's perks. Dan has pointed out this recruiting fallacy and that...is valid.

                          If anyone knows any different, do tell. I'd hate for any potential recruit that reads this board to think that our coaches don't care or work at making UNH Hockey the team it once was, because that is absolutely the farthest thing from the truth. JMHO. Ok, let me have it.
                          Last edited by HockeyRef; 02-12-2018, 09:13 AM.
                          Here we go 'Cats!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                            *UNH will always be a desirable hockey location, so the underlying concern about needing to do something quickly is not apt.
                            *Marty and Umile made a huge mistake for a reboot of the program in 2015, creating a bad situation of Mike
                            *Implicit in the choice and the two years of pacivity is that there is a strong autopilot that would keep the program on a good path, and the Umile aura/UNH magic was enough while Mike learned the ropes of "coaching." That implicit notion is, I suggest, contrary to Dan's "little UNH" syndrome. I think it's hubris that UNH would succeed, and Dick could just sit back while Mike learned the ropes.
                            *The assumption that recruiting took care of itself speaks great deal about Umile's biggest failing in making no effort to something that "took care of itself."
                            *The assumption, and deference to his mentor, are a significant inhibiting factor to Mike's lack of success in recruiting the past three years. I suspect he went in with the idea of his 98-01 experience (and that as an assistant elsewhere), that UNH selected players (and he could recruit top kids by saying "I'm from UNH".) He has slowly come to learn that the dynamic is exactly reversed, and that recruits are not lining up based just on history, but instead want to know the future.
                            *Mike may well have the potential to be a good coach, but he has no track record to flash for recruits, and Umile's sales pitch to Marty about how Souza's "up and coming" isn't apparent outside the bubble.
                            *Recruits and their advisors have no reason to view Mike with any presumption based on his limited/unremarkable track record, and to overcome that, he's have to show a hunger (rather than pacivity) we really haven't seen.
                            *Having made the choice in 2015, Marty has to give Mike an extended learning period. Dan's one year plus probation is too short. I side more with C-H-C's three year but with high expectations timeframe (though I was surprised when even C-H-C said an NCAA bid was an acceptable requirement). My concern had been that UNH would give Souza a five year window.
                            *I don't think on ice expectations should govern, other than improved play from HE bottom three (9-11) into the 7-8 range. Too much of the cake for the next two years is already baked to expect him to achieve more.
                            *I think someone has to be able to help the current admin in evaluating recruiting progress. All of us are extremely limited in being able to evaluate how UNH is doing, and Mike has gotten four decent recruits in Crookshank, Gildon, Maass and Taylor. It's not that he can't do it, but he needs greater consistency.
                            *I hope the Admin recognizes enough red flags/not meeting expectations that they force on Mike the "support" he needs, which means that if he doesn't recognize the need for experience vs. hiring a closer trusted friend (the Lassonde v. White/Mowers discussion) that they do.
                            *I am torn about the above item. I have joked somewhat about Lassonde as co-Coach, which I think is the best path forward. It would get someone a) with instant credibility in the USA hockey framework, and b) proven recruiting skills. I imagine the only way he would come back is if he could have a far greater say and title -- which is why the co-Coach title. But I would give Mike a choice: You can accept losing some of your authority, but with a three year time frame. Or you can decide to do this your own way, but that means the leash will be shorter, no guarantees.
                            *The above gives you a clear three year track if the program doesn't stabilize.
                            *The question is what happens if, after three years, they are trending upwards. You need to answer that question. First, keep in mind this would be a good position, meaning the co-coaching is working, so do you change it? I assume it works unless the egos then pose a problem. From Mike's perspective, he's now shown himself to be the top dog (with help), so take the training wheels off. If he has options elsewhere, he could request/demand that, and I suppose UNH could agree and make him the full coach. From David's perspective, he's upgrading salary, moving closer to home, and a higher profile position. If the choice is made in 2021, he's no worse off, with lots of options as an assistant, and perhaps even (at age 59), a HC job somewhere else.
                            Last edited by NCAA watcher; 02-12-2018, 09:48 AM.
                            The Souza record:
                            15-16 10th place
                            16-17 10th place
                            17-18 11th place
                            18-19 8th place
                            19-20 9th place
                            20-21 10th place
                            21-22 9th place
                            22-23 10th place

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                            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                              Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                              I guess the thing that is a concern to me regarding the comments about where Souza is, etc is the 'assumption' that the recruiters (Souza/Stewart) are sitting on their hands and letting these great players pass them by. Who in here really knows what they have, have not done, who they have, have not contacted? Do we honestly believe that UNH would be able to recruit 100% of these players? Belief factor has been mentioned and I agree; if you don't believe you can recruit them, then you probably won't. If the reality is that we just aren't doing that, then, I'll stop spending my $$ right now. I'd like to believe otherwise. I know we are basing much of this on the tangible, who's on paper, who's walking through that door and pulling the jersey over thier head and I get that. But that should be the only real truth to it; not that they haven't tried. This isn't something we, the average fan...are privvy to!

                              Take them away from their 'BeanPot Dreams' of playing for a Boston school? I had this same convo at the 'Whitt before a game with someone who felt that UNH just needs to attract these players away from the Boston schools. That would be great. (See Johnny Gaudreau and gosh knows how many others? Oh and yes I know the Johhny Hockey miss was admissions...) Well sure we could! Why not? I think a better question is...why AREN'T these blue chippahs showing up? It's too easy an answer to say they (coaches) aren't contacting them. Just too easy an answer. That's something I'd like to know...'coz I can't think of a better place to play than here!

                              I have no idea, none, nada on what these coaches are doing on a daily basis when it comes to recruiting. We can say 'well, just look at the results' and that does have validity. But to assume they are doing nothing? Come on...it's just not valid. It's the assumption that IF they contacted XYZ player, they'd def be on board. I think that is not reality. We'd be stacked beyond belief if that was true. You guys who really know how this works know that not every player takes the bait for whatever reason. If UNH is making excuses about facilities etc...well, that's ridiculous. Sure we do need upgrades to locker rooms but playing here, going to the University, has it's perks. Dan has pointed out this recruiting fallacy and that...is valid.

                              If anyone knows any different, do tell. I'd hate for any potential recruit that reads this board to think that our coaches don't care or work at making UNH Hockey the team it once was, because that is absolutely the farthest thing from the truth. JMHO. Ok, let me have it.

                              Recruits are looking for the following in my opinion:

                              1. WINNING - recruits want a successful program with realistic aspirations of winning a National Championship. UNH cannot offer that right now.

                              2. COACHING - recruits want coaching staffs that will hopefully get the player to the next level. UNH cannot offer that right now. I look at the resurgence of Wisconsin as a blueprint. They had a down period and went out and hired a high profile, NHL experienced coach who attracted players. Now Wisconsin is trending back to a national title contender (note they were 4-26 in 2014/5 season!). No program has more blue chip recruits lined up than Wisconsin. They are on clear upswing.

                              3. FACILITIES - recruits want great locker rooms, players lounges, training rooms, etc. UNH has what I would say is "average- below average" facilities compared to competition.

                              4. FAN SUPPORT - recruits want to play in front of fans and on TV. UNH is "below average" in this category in my opinion. College hockey as whole is struggling but the atmosphere at the Whit isnt close to be a factor anymore. 66.7% capacity isnt bad but its not going to sway a recruit either.

                              5. ACADEMICS - recruits want a solid education. UNH once again is "average" in this area.

                              Right now UNH is a tough sell. The Glory Days are long gone and recruiting a 14yr old or 15 yr old werent even born when UNH was in the Frozen Four. Those kids dont care - its about now.
                              Last edited by Lemonade; 02-12-2018, 09:42 AM.

                              Comment


                              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                                Originally posted by Lemonade View Post
                                Recruits are looking for the following in my opinion:

                                1. WINNING - recruits want a successful program with realistic aspirations of winning a National Championship. UNH cannot offer that right now.

                                2. COACHING - recruits want coaching staffs that will hopefully get the player to the next level. UNH cannot offer that right now. I look at the resurgence of Wisconsin as a blueprint. They had a down period and went out and hired a high profile, NHL experienced coach who attracted players. Now Wisconsin is trending back to a national title contender (note they were 4-26 in 2014/5 season!). No program has more blue chip recruits lined up than Wisconsin. They are on clear upswing.

                                3. FACILITIES - recruits want great locker rooms, players lounges, training rooms, etc. UNH has what I would say is "average- below average" facilities compared to competition.

                                4. FAN SUPPORT - recruits want to play in front of fans and on TV. UNH is "below average" in this category in my opinion. College hockey as whole is struggling but the atmosphere at the Whit isnt close to be a factor anymore. 66.7% capacity isnt bad but its not going to sway a recruit either.

                                5. ACADEMICS - recruits want a solid education. UNH once again is "average" in this area.

                                Right now UNH is a tough sell. The Glory Days are long gone and recruiting a 14yr old or 15 yr old werent even born when UNH was in the Frozen Four. Those kids dont care - its about now.
                                I would agree with most of this - these are major factors in the minds of recruits and parents (though I would argue that UNH's facilities are average to above and academics are what you make of them, no matter where you go). But here are some more issues near and dear to the hearts of top recruits...

                                1. The most important factor in recruiting will always be PRICE TAG. UNH has 18 scholarships, just like everyone else. I've mentioned before how far 18 scholarships can go for a team. UNH needs to start getting aggressive in 'overpaying' for top prospects. When you receive a 75% to full-ride offer, suddenly its easier to see the strength in all other areas. Cruikshank dumped Wisconsin to head to CC - CC is not UW in any area, but he got a full-ride offer...

                                2. LOVE. Recruits want their tires pumped. They want to hear about the difference they can make in your program. One of the easiest sales pitches I ever had to make was after inheriting a 6-39 roster. We went after the best kids we could find and told them they had the talent to make immediate and long-term impacts. That they could be the players who put our program on the map. UNH has the opportunity to make that pitch and it is a great pitch to make. Kids love it. Paint that picture.

                                3. Finally, kids love to hear about how they FIT within your VISION for the program. Souza has a chance to build a brand new UNH. This is why its so important for him to establish a blue print for UNH Hockey - ideally, getting back to what worked so well in the past. Target kids like Poisson, Glasman and Suchy and sell them on the idea that UNH is going to once-again feature the fast, quick, creative, free-wheeling and creative forward groups of yesteryear. Talented recruits want to showcase those talents. They can come to UNH and never have to worry about playing in a trap. They can have fun on the ice. They can score and score some more. But you have to have, believe and be able to translate that vision...
                                Live Free or Die!!
                                Miami University '03

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