UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

[Dan]

I hate to interrupt this trip down memory lane with 'recruiting news' from the present, but...

https://twitter.com/ciflyingaces/status/980226478129471495?s=21

UNH is off his personal twitter account as well. Whatever, he is 2-6--8, -21 on the season. He was never the big get, sure-fire pro some would have had you believe. He's a big kid, but not a traffic cone, who put up a few points in the EHL. It's a low bar when that gets you 4-5*...

Although, to be fair to the scouts and his pro prospects - he is apparently shrinking since he is listed on the Aces linechart at 6-1 despite the fact that he was widely reported to be 6-3 when he verballed to UNH.

He has been mediocre at best in the USHL. So good luck to him wherever he goes. More importantly, who replaces him? A new top-four immediately caliber recruit (hopefully)? Lots of Matt Dawson? I certainly hope rushing Bahn to Durham is not the answer...

[Sean Pickett]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

But, BUT ... no, Providence rolls over BU in its ECAC semi-final, and suddenly the nation's #1-ranked team was looking awfully vulnerable. We all smugly basked in BU's fall, knowing that despite their gaudy record (30+ wins at that point) they'd be golfing just like UNH soon enough. But, BUT ... no, the Terriers smoke Brown in the ECAC consolation game, and in reward the NCAA pooh-bahs grant Jack and Co. an unprecedented do-over vs. Providence @ Providence to determine who'd join BC (the ECAC Tournament Champion) in the NCAAs. Suddenly we weren't so much smug as outraged! Perhaps Sean can confirm the explanation I heard sometime in the following few years that Parker's wife had been quite ill, and understandably his full attention was elsewhere. The NCAA was sympathetic to these 'extenuating circumstances' and viola - the one off, never to be repeated play-in game was born. (To be fair, I know that CC played at BGSU in a corresponding 'West' play-in game that year, but was this planned from the start, or just an ad hoc response to the BU situation? Sean?).

Coach Parker's wife was dying when BU played PC in the ECAC semifinals (she died the next day a few hours before the consolation game). I know a few long-time BU fans who thought it wrong he was behind the bench instead of at her bedside. That said, I really don't think the NCAA was sympathetic to his personal loss, but as part of the selection process they were sympathetic to a 27-2 BU team. Instead of just picking BU over PC for the Frozen Four (I have previously posted about both the NCAA Selection process in 1974 and the previous times the eastern committee had selected a team other than the ECAC runner-up for the Frozen Four). However, starting in 1977 the NCAA allowed a western quarterfinal/play-in game between the CCHA champion and the WCHA second seed, so an eastern quarterfinal/play-in game between BU and PC was not so surprising. In fact, the ECAC had as many teams as the WCHA and CCHA combined so it actually made some sense (and the NCAA tournament was expanded to 8 teams in 1981).

Obligatory UNH reference:
As I mentioned I first followed BU in 1985 and I still remember the 1986 Hockey East quarterfinals in which 7th place UNH played 2nd place BU almost equally in the two game series, taking a 1-0 lead in the first game and holding it until Clark Donatelli tied it up with just 2:04 left in the game (there was no overtime). The second night UNH came back from a 2-0 deficit to tie the game 2-2, before BU took 3-2 and 4-2 leads and went on to win 4-3.

Sean

[Felger]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Obligatory UNH reference:
As I mentioned I first followed BU in 1985 and I still remember the 1986 Hockey East quarterfinals in which 7th place UNH played 2nd place BU almost equally in the two game series, taking a 1-0 lead in the first game and holding it until Clark Donatelli tied it up with just 2:04 left in the game (there was no overtime). The second night UNH came back from a 2-0 deficit to tie the game 2-2, before BU took 3-2 and 4-2 leads and went on to win 4-3.

Sean

Those were Charlie Holt's last games as head coach. UNH was 5-27-3 heading into that series. They certainly put up a valiant fight.

[Greg Ambrose]

Coach Parker's wife was dying when BU played PC in the ECAC semifinals (she died the next day a few hours before the consolation game). I know a few long-time BU fans who thought it wrong he was behind the bench instead of at her bedside. That said, I really don't think the NCAA was sympathetic to his personal loss, but as part of the selection process they were sympathetic to a 27-2 BU team. Instead of just picking BU over PC for the Frozen Four (I have previously posted about both the NCAA Selection process in 1974 and the previous times the eastern committee had selected a team other than the ECAC runner-up for the Frozen Four). However, starting in 1977 the NCAA allowed a western quarterfinal/play-in game between the CCHA champion and the WCHA second seed, so an eastern quarterfinal/play-in game between BU and PC was not so surprising. In fact, the ECAC had as many teams as the WCHA and CCHA combined so it actually made some sense (and the NCAA tournament was expanded to 8 teams in 1981).

Obligatory UNH reference:
As I mentioned I first followed BU in 1985 and I still remember the 1986 Hockey East quarterfinals in which 7th place UNH played 2nd place BU almost equally in the two game series, taking a 1-0 lead in the first game and holding it until Clark Donatelli tied it up with just 2:04 left in the game (there was no overtime). The second night UNH came back from a 2-0 deficit to tie the game 2-2, before BU took 3-2 and 4-2 leads and went on to win 4-3.

Sean

Don’t buy the rationale Sean, sorry. 1978 was the BU exception rule. No school, no matter how gawdy their record, had ever gotten the special dispensation that BU received that year. The cynic in me has always thought that, if Bob Francis’ swipe at the crease in OT had connected, BU would have been allowed to play a do over quarterfinal game against UNH. Total joke, regardless of the fact that they won it all. No do overs.

[chickod]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Don’t buy the rationale Sean, sorry. 1978 was the BU exception rule. No school, no matter how gawdy their record, had ever gotten the special dispensation that BU received that year. The cynic in me has always thought that, if Bob Francis’ swipe at the crease in OT had connected, BU would have been allowed to play a do over quarterfinal game against UNH. Total joke, regardless of the fact that they won it all. No do overs.

Well, from an objective perspective (which takes BOTH of us out of it ) I'm sure you're probably expressing the viewpoint of most fans. But it is going to be a pointless pursuit to continue this argument with any BU fan, especially those of us who were there that season. And when you say "no do overs," you're just not factually correct. The FACT is, the COMMITTEE CHOSE the second team. Period. They could have selected anyone they wanted. There was no "rule" that the runner-up had to be the second team selected. And, it's especially non-productive to try to make that argument with THAT team, which was arguably the greatest BU team in history (I'm sure some may disagree but you have to include them in the discussion). And again, you can't come to that conclusion by looking at historical records - you had to watch them play. In fact, if you want to be technical, it was Providence who got the do-over in the sense that the committee could have just selected BU outright without a "play-in" game. They were within their rights to do that and there was precedent. Since the purported goal was to send the best two "representatives" from the East, it was really a no-brainer. And you had to understand the climate then. The "West" had won the last five national championships and ALL of them were "all West" finals. An Eastern team hadn't even MADE it to the final since BU won it all in 1972.

Point being, the "regardless of the fact they won it all" is the argument you're attributing to the BU fans. That was NEVER an argument we used to "justify the selection." They were selected because they were the best team. Period. The fact that they proved it was icing on the cake.

But those days are gone now. So there can be no more arguments about "smoke-filled back rooms." Now you have to "win" your way in. All subjectivity has been taken out of the process. And as we have seen in basketball, that does not have its own issues. What about a team that goes undefeated in their conference and then loses their conference tournament? If they're a mid-major, their season is over. So what't the point of the regular season then? Why don't we just start a tournament in October and pick the winner from every conference? And I'm not really being that facetious. The conference tournament is conducted to make money; but let's not for a second think that this is a "valid" way to choose who deserves to compete for the National Championship. In fact, I would argue that, since we're talking about "do overs," the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT is a do-over, since it reduces the chances of the Conference Champion from 100% to some lower percentage.

[mookie1995]

Someone sounds a little jealous ... maybe a certain NESN hostess was among GQ's conquests??

Mookie would never begrudge a man gettin some

[Greg Ambrose]

Well, from an objective perspective (which takes BOTH of us out of it ) I'm sure you're probably expressing the viewpoint of most fans. But it is going to be a pointless pursuit to continue this argument with any BU fan, especially those of us who were there that season. And when you say "no do overs," you're just not factually correct. The FACT is, the COMMITTEE CHOSE the second team. Period. They could have selected anyone they wanted. There was no "rule" that the runner-up had to be the second team selected. And, it's especially non-productive to try to make that argument with THAT team, which was arguably the greatest BU team in history (I'm sure some may disagree but you have to include them in the discussion). And again, you can't come to that conclusion by looking at historical records - you had to watch them play. In fact, if you want to be technical, it was Providence who got the do-over in the sense that the committee could have just selected BU outright without a "play-in" game. They were within their rights to do that and there was precedent. Since the purported goal was to send the best two "representatives" from the East, it was really a no-brainer. And you had to understand the climate then. The "West" had won the last five national championships and ALL of them were "all West" finals. An Eastern team hadn't even MADE it to the final since BU won it all in 1972.

Point being, the "regardless of the fact they won it all" is the argument you're attributing to the BU fans. That was NEVER an argument we used to "justify the selection." They were selected because they were the best team. Period. The fact that they proved it was icing on the cake.

But those days are gone now. So there can be no more arguments about "smoke-filled back rooms." Now you have to "win" your way in. All subjectivity has been taken out of the process. And as we have seen in basketball, that does not have its own issues. What about a team that goes undefeated in their conference and then loses their conference tournament? If they're a mid-major, their season is over. So what't the point of the regular season then? Why don't we just start a tournament in October and pick the winner from every conference? And I'm not really being that facetious. The conference tournament is conducted to make money; but let's not for a second think that this is a "valid" way to choose who deserves to compete for the National Championship. In fact, I would argue that, since we're talking about "do overs," the ENTIRE TOURNAMENT is a do-over, since it reduces the chances of the Conference Champion from 100% to some lower percentage.

“They were selected because they were the best team.” To quote a certain Hobey winner that you are quite familiar with, “sometimes the best team doesn’t win.” Ironic isn’t it.

[jeteye1717]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Coach Parker's wife was dying when BU played PC in the ECAC semifinals (she died the next day a few hours before the consolation game). I know a few long-time BU fans who thought it wrong he was behind the bench instead of at her bedside. That said, I really don't think the NCAA was sympathetic to his personal loss, but as part of the selection process they were sympathetic to a 27-2 BU team, [opting for a play-in game @ PC] instead of just picking BU over PC for the Frozen Four

Many thanks for the confirmation re: the serious health issues confronting Parker's wife in the Spring of 1978; I'd heard various rumors in the decades that followed, but never from such an impeccable source. It must've been a sad/draining time for Parker, his staff, and ultimately his team. That they persevered thru their grief to win the ultimate prize is an amazing accomplishment ... but it won't change the fact that I still think BU received a Golden Ticket to the Tournament by the eastern selection committee, desperate (as chickod has related) to get the perceived 'best' eastern team into the NCAA mix (BC, the ECAC Tournament Champ, finished 5th in the regular season) after a succession of western-dominated Frozen Fours, BU's late season stumbles (or coach's lack of focus) be ****ed ...

(I have previously posted about both the NCAA Selection Process in 1974 and the previous times the eastern committee had selected a team other than the ECAC runner-up for the Frozen Four). However, starting in 1977 the NCAA allowed a western quarterfinal/play-in game between the CCHA champion and the WCHA second seed, so an eastern quarterfinal/play-in game between BU and PC was not so surprising. In fact, the ECAC had as many teams as the WCHA and CCHA combined, so it actually made some sense (and the NCAA tournament was expanded to 8 teams in 1981).

It's my understanding that the only reason a play-in game between the CCHA champion and the WCHA second seed was instituted was because of intense lobbying by CCHA Presidents, miffed that their schools had no opportunity to compete beyond the CCHA Tournament. That the 2nd place team from the mighty WCHA had to jump another hurdle - while the ECAC runner-up (in this case UNH) breezed into the semi-finals - no doubt rubbed the haughty WCHA folks the wrong way, but some "connected" folks I've talked to over the years claimed the WCHA agreed to it only because they saw it, correctly as it turned out, as a first step towards Tournament expansion, a move they interpreted as especially beneficial to them (more/better teams to trounce their weaker Eastern brethren). 'Tho the Tournament expansions to 8, and then 12, teams were initially set up to feature a balanced number of east and west representatives, once PWR was established as the criterion driving selection, geographic balance disappeared. And that's a good thing in my view; quantitatively select the "best" 16 teams regardless of locale and let 'em play to determine a Champion ('tho I could do without another repeat of the 2005 All-WCHA FF) ...

Obligatory UNH reference: I first followed BU in 1985 and I still remember the 1986 Hockey East quarterfinals in which 7th place UNH played 2nd place BU almost equally in the two game series, taking a 1-0 lead in the first game and holding it until Clark Donatelli tied it up with just 2:04 left in the game (there was no overtime). The second night UNH came back from a 2-0 deficit to tie the game 2-2, before BU took 3-2 and 4-2 leads and went on to win 4-3.

As Felger has already mentioned, those were Charlie Holt's last two games as coach of the Wildcats. By that time I'd left New England for graduate school down south, and was only dimly aware of how inauspiciously his long career was winding down. Looking back, it's really amazing to see (as Greg and others have noted) how the end of Umile's long tenure behind the bench in Durham mirrored that of his former coach, both riding off into the sunset not with a bang but a whimper ...

[BlackI]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Such literal folks... Such verbage... encapsulate this for what you want in a sentence or two.

[Snively65]

Such literal folks... Such verbage... encapsulate this for what you want in a sentence or two.

Maybe you could synthesize for us?

[Chuck Murray]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

Such literal folks... Such verbage... encapsulate this for what you want in a sentence or two.

That sounds fair, Black Eye
We will try to do our best

... suddenly I feel like I'm revisiting last summer's "Fun with Souza, Dick & Stu" thread ...

[wildcatdc]

Such literal folks... Such verbage... encapsulate this for what you want in a sentence or two.

Wow, did you really just:

1. Misuse the adjective literal
2. Misspell the word verbiage

And...

3. Utterly mangle syntax in that last attempt at a coherent sentence...

All in one post??

Hat trick!!

[Snively65]

Wow, did you really just:

1. Misuse the adjective literal
2. Misspell the word verbiage

And...

3. Utterly mangle syntax in that last attempt at a coherent sentence...

All in one post??

Hat trick!!

A Gordie Howe hat trick? But, he lost his fight with Syntax. :-)

[BlackI]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

That sounds fair, Black Eye
We will try to do our best

... suddenly I feel like I'm revisiting last summer's "Fun with Souza, Dick & Stu" thread ...

You have a guy as a stand out power forward. Period. And he is good at recruiting. I think you guys will be great. Why the worry before he has a chance to be a head coach?

I will edit this because a lot of Unhers can't remember the pain in my as Souza was... likely to flip this we have Guite.

[BlackI]

Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

You have a guy as a stand out power forward. Period. And he is good at recruiting. I think you guys will be great. Why the worry before he has a chance to be a head coach?

I will edit this because a lot of Unhers can't remember the pain in my as Souza was... likely to flip this we have Guite.

Talk about two head to head guys that were young... Guite vs. Souza.... sounds like a great head to head battle like the old days...

Of course I don't know too much, come up to Alfond and get a baked potato