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UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

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  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

    Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
    But, is it too late already? Seems strange to be saying that, when he won't be HC until next Fall.
    Again, you and others all saw this unaccountability coming:

    Originally posted by bomberhockey View Post
    January 2016
    I know I'm singing the same one note song, but here's my take. The defense lost one dman although huge he didn't play 60 minutes a night. You alienate a kid in his sophomore year that had the same amount of points his fresh year as Tyk his freshman year in fewer games played. He bolts. The other piece missing from last year moved to coach the defense during last year when he'd traditionally coached PP and forwards. What has/is the communication been like from the coaches.
    If youve just transitioned to a new team with no leadership you have no idea the pulse or chemistry so you really can take little blame. If you were told by your AD that you don't cut it as an HC at your alma mater, how much are you going to buy in? If you retired 4-5 years ago and you're suddenly thrust back into leadership after your AD tells your enabler that he has no future here, what are your odds of getting back into step even if you wanted to do it? What happens in 2+ years when their is a change and your recruits that have committed can decommitt without penalty, aka Gouldreat/ NU take another look?
    And finally even if you are an extremely motivated young athlete, what message are you receiving? Is the apathy contagious? What is the message? They've mailed it in!
    Nothing can be done now just go forward from here. The AD has to his job and correct this in 2016 not 2018!
    For as much as we criticize Borek, and I think there's lots there, his results are mitigated when you realize the complete lack of help he was getting, and what deadweight he was carrying.
    Last edited by NCAA watcher; 02-17-2018, 11:05 AM.
    The Souza record:
    15-16 10th place
    16-17 10th place
    17-18 11th place
    18-19 8th place
    19-20 9th place
    20-21 10th place
    21-22 9th place
    22-23 10th place

    Comment


    • Originally posted by walrus View Post
      We thought that at Maine also, we got a goalie and some guys who can score(I'm still not convinced on that) and all of sudden Maine wins. Coaching is part of it but you can't win without talent. UNH hasn't got much from the games I've seen.

      Interesting to see you guys follow Maine down the shi tter. Notice how awful HE is now, Maine and UNH have taken the whole league down
      Well you are absolutely right and as they say "misery loves company"...
      Good luck to you the rest of the way..hope you get more than you expected given the past few seasons!
      Here we go 'Cats!!

      Comment


      • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
        Bottom line, I think we expected more. I know I did. And I feel I've been realistic. Of course, there's always the HE tournament to see if there's anything to be truly happy with for this season that started out with so much promise. Yeah I get it about the:

        1. Schedule, ease of
        2. Talent on the Ice

        But as a fan I want to see a team that pulls it out, doesn't consistently get themselves in 2 goal deficits, loses the game when they are up by 3, game in, game out. Is that really too much to ask for? That's what great, heck, even good, teams do. They find a way to win when it matters most. When there's home ice to be had (no matter how you judge that tournament. Hear that next year, it's going to go back to the top 8 which, I totally agree with. And if UNH doesn't make inroads then, it will be a moot point. Talk about how it feels to be out of the NCAA tournament? Just wait til they sit out the HE tournament....let that sink in.)

        Ok, if we just don't have it, we just don't have it. One of those years. The darkest moment is right before the dawn. But will it be different? This isn't unique to this team. I've seen this play out in some way, shape or form, the past 5 seasons, even with some decent talent. Show me Coach Souza that you can build teams that have grit, do not give up, and i will be your very best field soldier. Show me more of the same, then I just can't give the energy to it I have. Wish i could be one of those super fans that see it as "part of the deal when you're a fan".

        I apologize; I thought I could be one of those fans. I'm really trying to be. At the same time, guess what? I honestly can handle losing; it's ok. Teams lose. But your fans honestly CARE about these athletes and really, really wonder if we got the best out of them at times. We're wiling to travel far and wide to watch your team play. I think that's fair. But I'm just one fan, that's all. There's others tho...that want, and expect the same. Is anyone listening? And one other thing...you can have all of 'dollar dog nights' you want at the 'Whitt. That's not what the fans want, but thanks anyways.

        Just unbelievable how this season has gone; those of you who speak of the lack of talent, they are just bad, etc...did you really, honestly see it as playing out the way it has?? I mean...how hard was it going to be to win 14 games this season/you know, the NRN? Aren't you just the little bit surprised by this? Sorry, I am just plain disappointed. And I think I can be a realist about the situation. What brought me to start watching/following the team in 2013/2014 is missing; and it's not just winning those games. That part is the worst; watching a team that can do some good things, even some great things, just go through the motions. A self fulfilling prophecy.

        Lace up those skates 'Cats...NU's coming.
        I posted my pre-season prediction earlier in the thread and they're right on pace to finish in between worstcase scenario and probably scenario. So, no I'm not surprised at all. This is who they are - especially taking coaching into account. Everyone says I'm too negative and I'll say again - I wasn't until they gave me reason to be. I research deep into the team, the sport and into reality and I call it like I see it...

        Every one is going to say the right things pre-season and combine that with the early start and it was fools gold. I don't blame people for getting caught up in it and I understand people who watched that start and can't believe this is the same team - but that's sports. Everyone can flash, but they always show who they really are over the course of a season. It's why we often play seasons and series to show who is the best team...

        The players are not good enough - that's their biggest crime. I believe they work hard and try to do everything the right way. The coaches should have recruited better talent, created more competition, made better adjustments and put kids into better positions to succeed.

        This season - and the past three - have been about one thing. Not 600 wins but about salvaging Umile's floundering legacy with a strong finish. That's why they played Tirone virtually every night - despite a number of AWFUL stretches. Because in theory they viewed him as the best goaltender and every game was a desperate opportunity to return to the top for even one night. It's no surprise he played his best when he left them no choice but to actually turn to one of the other goalies - all of a sudden he's held accountable and has to focus and work, lo and behold he plays better. A correalation they completely missed at thy position and others. playing FR on third line A and third line B or two defensemen over a couple of DIII seniors doesn't signal a true meritocracy or adjustment. It signals you're ***...

        They did nothing to develop the team for the future or to develop Souza for his next role. Umile hasn't been involved in recruiting for a long time, I get it - but he knows the drill having done it and watched some great ones do it for him. Yet, he never got involved to help Souza or went out on the road to find prospects for after his time at UNH. Because he never cared about anything but his last three years - in doing so he has damaged the future...

        Souza would have been better off staying at UConn and learning there - from Cavanaugh. UConn btw - Chuck - was a step up from entry level job to higher profile entry level job. Cavanaugh saw potential, I'm sure, but he was still the driving force as head coach AND most importantly lead recruiter. He was an entry level kid learning on the job - and UNH said what the hell, he's a nice kid, the departing HC who has made bad choice after bad choice likes him, so let's make the entry-level kid CEO. On top of that let's force him to sink or swim on his own...

        He's not ready - and he hasn't been supported. It looks like things will get worse. And we have an AD who didn't care when the program began to unravel, didn't care enough to force a real search for a solution (HC) and won't care enough to do anything when this doesn't work out. Just don't get in trouble Mike and you can coach here forever - just like all the other coaches at UNH.

        How Scarano and Umile can walk into that empty arena, see what UNH hockey has become and still sleep at night is beyond me. It shouldn't surprise me though, they've been sleeping at the switch for a long, long time...
        Last edited by Dan; 02-17-2018, 11:08 AM.
        Live Free or Die!!
        Miami University '03

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

          Pessimism: 9-22-3 (5-17-2 - 595 career wins
          Prediction: 12-18-4 (7-14-3) - 598 career wins
          Optimism: 17-14-3 (10-12-2) - 603 career wins (The symbolism would almost make it all worth it!
          Yup, saw it coming...

          It's frustrating with the blown leads - but they happen because the team is bad. The come out desperate to get a win and end the losing, but they cannot maintain that energy or level of play nor keep up when the other team pushes back. And, yes, they don't adjust at all...

          One goal wins/losses are a thing because long term they're supposed to even out. When they never even out you can't point to them any longer and say things could have been different. You keep losing one goal games - you're proving it's not a fluke...

          No they're not better than many other HE schools. They're worse than every roster in Hockey East except UMass who is trending up and Merrimack who plays a system they're not skilled enough to break...
          Last edited by Dan; 02-17-2018, 11:26 AM.
          Live Free or Die!!
          Miami University '03

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dan View Post
            I posted my pre-season prediction earlier in the thread and they're right on pace to finish in between worstcase scenario and probably scenario. So, no I'm not surprised at all. This is who they are - especially taking coaching into account. Everyone says I'm too negative and I'll say again - I wasn't until they gave me reason to be. I research deep into the team, the sport and into reality and I call it like I see it...

            Every one is going to say the right things pre-season and combine that with the early start and it was fools gold. I don't blame people for getting caught up in it and I understand people who watched that start and can't believe this is the same team - but that's sports. Everyone can flash, but they always show who they really are over the course of a season. It's why we often play seasons and series to show who is the best team...

            The players are not good enough - that's their biggest crime. I believe they work hard and try to do everything the right way. The coaches should have recruited better talent, created more competition, made better adjustments and put kids into better positions to succeed.

            This season - and the past three - have been about one thing. Not 600 wins but about salvaging Umile's floundering legacy with a strong finish. That's why they played Tirone virtually every night - despite a number of AWFUL stretches. Because in theory they viewed him as the best goaltender and every game was a desperate opportunity to return to the top for even one night. It's no surprise he played his best when he left them no choice but to actually turn to one of the other goalies - all of a sudden he's held accountable and has to focus and work, lo and behold he plays better. A correalation they completely missed at thy position and others. playing FR on third line A and third line B or two defensemen over a couple of DIII seniors doesn't signal a true meritocracy or adjustment. It signals you're ***...

            They did nothing to develop the team for the future or to develop Souza for his next role. Umile hasn't been involved in recruiting for a long time, I get it - but he knows the drill having done it and watched some great ones do it for him. Yet, he never got involved to help Souza or went out on the road to find prospects for after his time at UNH. Because he never cared about anything but his last three years - in doing so he has damaged the future...

            Souza would have been better off staying at UConn and learning there - from Cavanaugh. UConn btw - Chuck - was a step up from entry level job to higher profile entry level job. Cavanaugh saw potential, I'm sure, but he was still the driving force as head coach AND most importantly lead recruiter. He was an entry level kid learning on the job - and UNH said what the hell, he's a nice kid, the departing HC who has made bad choice after bad choice likes him, so let's make the entry-level kid CEO. On top of that let's force him to sink or swim on his own...

            He's not ready - and he hasn't been supported. It looks like things will get worse. And we have an AD who didn't care when the program began to unravel, didn't care enough to force a real search for a solution (HC) and won't care enough to do anything when this doesn't work out. Just don't get in trouble Mike and you can coach here forever - just like all the other coaches at UNH.

            How Scarano and Umile can walk into that empty arena, see what UNH hockey has become and still sleep at night is beyond me. It shouldn't surprise me though, they've been sleeping at the switch for a long, long time...
            I know Dan...I know but still can't help but feel the way I do. I still expected more. Not a trip to the NC not even a NCAA...but just a little more. And as I speak I'm buying tickets to NU. 🙄 But I will say this; no more missives from me; I don't want to be judged as a "bad fan". 🙀 I've said what I wanted to say and that's it. Took me 5 seasons but really that's all I got.
            Last edited by HockeyRef; 02-17-2018, 11:33 AM.
            Here we go 'Cats!!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
              Again, you and others all saw this unaccountability coming:



              For as much as we criticize Borek, and I think there's lots there, his results are mitigated when you realize the complete lack of help he was getting, and what deadweight he was carrying.
              I think everyone (on the board) knew that replacing Borek came with risks and wasn't going to be as easy as snapping their fingers. No one expected them to completely mail in the search for his replacement and the future head coach. Perhaps we should have as Umile he NEVER attempted to look outside his circle to hire assistants and Scarano always makes lazy hires (getting lucky once in a blue moon).

              I guess I was a fan boy for a minute and assumed those two actually cared about winning over keeping it in the family and the path of least resistance...
              Last edited by Dan; 02-17-2018, 11:27 AM.
              Live Free or Die!!
              Miami University '03

              Comment


              • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                I know Dan...I know but still can't help but feel the way I do. I still expected more. Not a trip to the NC not even a NCAA...but just a little more. And as I speak I'm buying tickets to NU. 🙄 But I will say this; no more missives from me; I don't want to be judged as a "bad fan". I've said what I wanted to say and that's it. Took me 5 seasons but really that's all I got.
                I respect you for always being optimistic and hoping for the best. That's admirable, but I bet deep down your disappointed not because your surprised but because you adamantly wished, and tried to believe, they could be more despte knowing their limitations...
                Live Free or Die!!
                Miami University '03

                Comment


                • Anyone here know who Derek Lodermeier is? I didn't think so - he's a completely non-descript SO forward at UVM with seven goals and 28 points in two years. He's an average HE player with a limited game. Now why is he important?

                  Cause the UNH roster is full of Derek Lodermeiers. We all love BVR - he's got the name and he is one of the better UNH forwards playing a 'second-line' role and on the PP. The bottom line is he has produced at Lodermeier levels - 10-18--28 in two years. He's an average player and he's better than most at UNH. The roster is devoid of talent...

                  Now, BVRs and DLs can fill nice roles on teams with top-end talent filling the critical positions. They may even break out as supplemental scorers as upperclassmen. But if you're counting on those guys to be key factors and lead your team, you're going to be at the bottom of the standings.

                  The talent is missing. Recruiting needs to pick up ASAP or buckle in for a long trip at the bottom of the standings wondering about effort...

                  Food for though: How great would an oft labeled 'lazy' Brett Hemingway look stacked up against this current group...? He would skate circles around them without breaking a sweat...
                  Live Free or Die!!
                  Miami University '03

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                    Yup, saw it coming...

                    It's frustrating with the blown leads - but they happen because the team is bad. The come out desperate to get a win and end the losing, but they cannot maintain that energy or level of play nor keep up when the other team pushes back. And, yes, they don't adjust at all...

                    One goal wins/losses are a thing because long term they're supposed to even out. When they never even out you can't point to them any longer and say things could have been different. You keep losing one goal games - you're proving it's not a fluke...

                    No they're not better than many other HE schools. They're worse than every roster in Hockey East except UMass who is trending up and Merrimack who plays a system they're not skilled enough to break...
                    Sorry, but I do not think that our roster is that much worse than those at UConn, UVM, or even Maine (other than goalie), besides UMass and Merrimack. Better coaching should have won at least a few more games against those teams, not to mention should have won more games against several OOC cupcakes, and the team would have its 15 wins this season, the most that could be expected given the mediocre talent.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                      I respect you for always being optimistic and hoping for the best. That's admirable, but I bet deep down your disappointed not because your surprised but because you adamantly wished, and tried to believe, they could be more despte knowing their limitations...
                      Thanks...Fervently wished and hoped but still pragmatic
                      😉! Anything good we can salvage out of this season will have to be enough and as they say "hope Springs Eternal". Honestly despite the optimism I do not feel I was unrealistic. Once we hit the tougher part of the schedule, the injury period we had I felt it wasn't going to be a banner year.

                      Yet at the same time the hits kept coming and it became difficult to be 100% objective. Silly huh! Years ago I came home upset about a game I had officiated that had a controversial call and I was too new to sort it on the intellectual level. Was a beginning umpire and had a ton to learn. My dad asked me if I loved what I did despite this day and I said yes! He said well then that's what you focus on. What you love. He also sahad d there would be more days like this...he was right.

                      There's been thousands of games since and more good than bad, but in the end, I still love it. At a point now where I am not the official I was but the passion for the games still burns bright.

                      That's what I feel about this team / program and that's where the frustration stems. So I need to remember my Dad's words...Uh Oh I think that's a missive...🙄😉
                      Last edited by HockeyRef; 02-17-2018, 12:06 PM.
                      Here we go 'Cats!!

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                        Sorry, but I do not think that our roster is that much worse than those at UConn, UVM, or even Maine (other than goalie), besides UMass and Merrimack. Better coaching should have won at least a few more games against those teams, not to mention should have won more games against several OOC cupcakes, and the team would have its 15 wins this season, the most that could be expected given the mediocre talent.
                        So agree...more W's were possible.
                        Here we go 'Cats!!

                        Comment


                        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                          Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                          ...as a fan I want to see a team that pulls it out, doesn't consistently get themselves in 2 goal deficits, loses the game when they are up by 3, game in, game out. Wish i could be one of those super fans that see it as "part of the deal when you're a fan".
                          They are not mutually exclusive. You can be both. I am disappointed that we do not have a bye, will not be at home in the 1st round, will not be at the Garden and not in the NCAA tournament. I am greatly disappointed by our play and record. I still love the team, players and people around the players and team. I love being on campus, at the Whitt, listening to the band, hearing the students cheer and it ain't bad when we compete for a bit and get a lead. I am taking the attitude that we will be back in the mix and getting there will be fun.
                          I will not be out cheered in my own building.

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017/2018 - Umile's Last Stand - The Grand Finale

                            Originally posted by Dan View Post
                            Food for though: How great would an oft labeled 'lazy' Brett Hemingway look stacked up against this current group...?
                            Great. Even at his current age by the looks of him. So would his older brother who could provide some PP backdoor positioning guidance.
                            I will not be out cheered in my own building.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Darius View Post
                              They are not mutually exclusive. You can be both. I am disappointed that we do not have a bye, will not be at home in the 1st round, will not be at the Garden and not in the NCAA tournament. I am greatly disappointed by our play and record. I still love the team, players and people around the players and team. I love being on campus, at the Whitt, listening to the band, hearing the students cheer and it ain't bad when we compete for a bit and get a lead. I am taking the attitude that we will be back in the mix and getting there will be fun.
                              Love this! I too have the same sentiments about the entire package and that's what should be a part of the deal. Have made so many new connections friends etc. Thanks for reminding me what the big picture is; appreciate it!
                              Here we go 'Cats!!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Snively65 View Post
                                Sorry, but I do not think that our roster is that much worse than those at UConn, UVM, or even Maine (other than goalie), besides UMass and Merrimack. Better coaching should have won at least a few more games against those teams, not to mention should have won more games against several OOC cupcakes, and the team would have its 15 wins this season, the most that could be expected given the mediocre talent.
                                Again, chickod's initial point was that the players might deserve some of the blame for lack of effort. I don't believe that to be the case. In talking about players performance I argued that they're giving what could be expected of them. You and JB are not in the minority - you've just pointed out other areas where the coaches have failed in addition to recruiting. That's fair. I agree - ive been at the forefront of blaming them for a lot. Recruiting, development, game management, lineup decisions, etc. this season is on the coaches...

                                Yes, a better coach could probably coax a few more wins out of this roster and finish 8th instead of last - but if you want the program to take a big jump and return to the top if HE than talent is the issue.

                                No those other rosters are not far ahead of UNH - but they are better. We tend to overvalue the 'top' players on UNHs roster. First because they are OUR best players and second because they've been forced into top roles and thus produce better than their talent-equivalent counterparts at other schools. Additionally, another critical difference between UNH and other rosters is the bottom - which at UNH is currently filled with DIIl types.

                                UNH has zero pure scoring talent on its roster. They have a solid D - that seems to stand out simply because it's not the dumpster fire it's been. The goaltending is bad. The depth is not DI caliber. Recruiting or not getting the most out of them - it is what it is.

                                I saw this season coming because I knew the talent level AND the coaches. You knew going in who was coaching the team and what you were going to get. The coach was Umile - not someone better. So why the surprise that he didn't adjust or maximize talent? He hasn't for years...

                                The recruiting reared its ugly head against yesterday - I still think Robinson is the best on the roster, but he was not good yesterday. The first two goals were long point shots with good views that went right threw him. I can blame them for missing on a bonafide #1 in each of their last three tries and you can blame them for not getting MR into more games or coaching him up more so that he's sharper. We'd both be right...

                                The adults in the room are at fault...
                                Last edited by Dan; 02-17-2018, 12:33 PM.
                                Live Free or Die!!
                                Miami University '03

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