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PK 2018 - Who do you have?

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  • #31
    Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

    Originally posted by ARM View Post
    Does anyone know why Julie Chu is not credited with the NCAA rookie scoring record? I've always thought that she had 93 points, and as far as I can tell, those all came versus NCAA programs. Is there some opponent for Harvard in 2002-03 that would cause those points to not be legit?
    BU, at a minimum. I'm not sure who else might not count, possibilities would include Wayne State, Niagara, and UConn (just because I have no idea).
    Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
    Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
    Twitter: @Salzano14


    Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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    • #32
      Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

      Originally posted by bluffrinkrat View Post
      If Watts wins she would be a first then. No freshman in 20 years has ever won the award. Since 1998 12 seniors, 7 juniors and only 1 sophomore (Jennifer Botterill) have won. But, very few if any freshman have put up the kind of numbers that Watts has this year, so maybe she will win. Of course, as we all know it isn't just numbers that is supposed to decide who gets the award.

      As in 2005, how about Bach (forward), Tiley (goalie) and Miano (defenseman) as a final 3. Watts? She'll have 3 more years to win it or maybe even win it twice as Botterill did.

      Don't see any Gophers in the top 10 this year, but watch out for next year...
      If they can give the Heisman to two freshmen in the past few years I think the PK can go to a frosh.

      It is close, but I have to give it to Bach.

      Bach missed 4 games because of national team commitments so you have to look at per game averages. She averaged more goals (and shots) per game than Watts. Watts led in assists per game but her team scores far more than BU. BC had the best offense in the NCAAs and had 104 goals not counting Watts goals.

      Watts also had the benefit of the best power play unit in the NCAAs plus the advantage that comes from empty net point opportunities in almost every game (BC was 28-3 / BU had a losing record). You can't prove it through stats, but every team that plays BU gears up to stop Bach. You can't do that with BC. Bach is also playing center with its defensive responsibilities and Watts is playing wing.

      Bach still outscored Watts. So I have to go Bach.

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      • #33
        Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        Bach missed 4 games because of national team commitments so you have to look at per game averages. She averaged more goals (and shots) per game than Watts.
        Yeah Watts tops Bach in almost every offensive category on a per game basis.

        "Shots per game"? Who GAF?

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        Watts also had the benefit of the best power play unit in the NCAAs
        Wow I wonder who made that power play unit so good?

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        plus the advantage that comes from empty net point opportunities in almost every game
        This is quite the mental gymnastics. Except Watts doesn't have a single ENG. Bach has three. So on a per-game basis, Watts has more non-ENG goals per game than Bach, 1.18 to 1.10. I do appreciate you unintentionally coming up with a way to make the only stat that Bach beats Watts (literally, the one stat out of like a dozen) less impressive, though.

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        BC was 28-3 / BU had a losing record
        Bach couldn't have been that important to her team then could she?

        BC lost three of the best defensemen in the world to the Olympics and still manages to sit 2nd in the Pairwise. You cannot possibly tell me that isn't directly because Watts was added to the roster.

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        You can't prove it through stats, but every team that plays BU gears up to stop Bach. You can't do that with BC.
        Come on. People aren't "gearing up" to stop Watts? Yeah, BC has other offensive threats, but that doesn't mean they just give up on defending Watts.

        Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
        Bach is also playing center with its defensive responsibilities and Watts is playing wing.
        Come on. BU's defense is one of the worst in the country. Watts is a +46, Bach is a +30. Literally a 50% (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) difference. If Bach has "defensive responsibilities," she isn't very good at them. And remember, BC is essentially playing with one elite defender plus THREE converted forwards (one of whom is a walk-on), an average defender, and a defender who will probably be in the stands next year.

        Whenever there's an obvious pick for an award, people love to look for a way to make the vote full of EXCITEMENT and INTRIGUE and try to cherry pick their way to explain why other players are better than the one person everyone is compared to. There's a reason why everyone is comparing each candidate to Watts.
        Last edited by TonyTheTiger20; 02-20-2018, 06:31 PM. Reason: Sorry for the million edits to this, but there was just so much to fking unpack
        Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
        Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
        Twitter: @Salzano14


        Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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        • #34
          Originally posted by EastFan1 View Post
          If they can give the Heisman to two freshmen in the past few years I think the PK can go to a frosh.

          It is close, but I have to give it to Bach.

          Bach missed 4 games because of national team commitments so you have to look at per game averages. She averaged more goals (and shots) per game than Watts. Watts led in assists per game but her team scores far more than BU. BC had the best offense in the NCAAs and had 104 goals not counting Watts goals.

          Watts also had the benefit of the best power play unit in the NCAAs plus the advantage that comes from empty net point opportunities in almost every game (BC was 28-3 / BU had a losing record). You can't prove it through stats, but every team that plays BU gears up to stop Bach. You can't do that with BC. Bach is also playing center with its defensive responsibilities and Watts is playing wing.

          Bach still outscored Watts. So I have to go Bach.
          Do you have the stats on per game ice time? From the games I saw Bach never leaves the ice. Full power play time. Can’t say the same about watts.

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

            Originally posted by dd17 View Post
            Do you have the stats on per game ice time? From the games I saw Bach never leaves the ice. Full power play time. Can’t say the same about watts.
            Yeah I wish ice time was kept in women's hockey, but it's not unfortunately... I can tell you though that BC rolls three lines pretty evenly. Certainly the top 2 lines get even time.

            By the way NO I'M NOT DONE HERE:

            Head to head, in 4 games:

            Bach 1-5--6
            Watts 7-3--10
            Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
            Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
            Twitter: @Salzano14


            Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

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            • #36
              Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

              I AM STILL NOT DONE DYING ON THIS HILL.

              Bach cleaned the eff up against crap teams --

              2-3--5 against Brown
              3-1--4 against Mankato
              1-2--3 against RIT
              4-0--4 against Yale
              4-1--5 against Vermont

              14-7--21 in 5 games against terrible teams. Other than Vermont, BC hasn't played a single team as bad as those other 4 teams.

              BU played a ridiculously soft schedule this year. A full 1/6th of the games Bach has played in this year have been against teams worse than any team BC has played this season.

              EDIT: MORE STATS THAT SUGGEST THIS IS NOT A DEBATE

              Versus the top 20 teams in PWR:

              Watts: 26-24--50 in 21 games (2.38 PPG)
              Bach: 15-13--28 in 18 games (1.59 PPG)

              Versus the bottom 20:

              Watts: 13-15--29 in 13 games (2.23 PPG)
              Bach: 21-12-33 in 12 games (2.75 PPG)

              The bulk of Watts' production has actually been against good teams.
              Last edited by TonyTheTiger20; 02-20-2018, 08:19 PM.
              Grant Salzano, Boston College '10
              Writer Emeritus, BC Interruption
              Twitter: @Salzano14


              Click here for the BC Interruption Pairwise, KRACH, and GRaNT Calculators

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                I AM STILL NOT DONE DYING ON THIS HILL.

                Bach cleaned the eff up against crap teams --

                2-3--5 against Brown
                3-1--4 against Mankato
                1-2--3 against RIT
                4-0--4 against Yale
                4-1--5 against Vermont

                14-7--21 in 5 games against terrible teams. Other than Vermont, BC hasn't played a single team as bad as those other 4 teams.

                BU played a ridiculously soft schedule this year. A full 1/6th of the games Bach has played in this year have been against teams worse than any team BC has played this season.
                I rest my case your honor!

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                • #38
                  Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

                  Also it would be hard to argue that she's just a one-way player as she's leading the team in +/- :

                  http://bceagles.com/cumestats.aspx?path=whockey
                  Minnesota Golden Gopher Hockey

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                    I AM STILL NOT DONE DYING ON THIS HILL.

                    Bach cleaned the eff up against crap teams --...
                    To summarize, BU plays in Hockey East...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

                      Originally posted by mattj711 View Post
                      To summarize, BU plays in Hockey East...
                      bu plays in Hockey East, yes...But bc lights up Hockey East...
                      At the outset, we could hang with the dude...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

                        Originally posted by ARM View Post
                        Does anyone know why Julie Chu is not credited with the NCAA rookie scoring record? I've always thought that she had 93 points, and as far as I can tell, those all came versus NCAA programs. Is there some opponent for Harvard in 2002-03 that would cause those points to not be legit?
                        According to the archives, Harvard played Wayne State (?) and Niagara (??) in that 30-3-1 season.They beat Niagara despite a mere three days rest after the exhausting W (17-2) against the Eagles. (Don’t remind you know who . . . he seems to be in a mood about the PK.)
                        Last edited by thirdtime's . . .; 02-20-2018, 10:44 PM. Reason: Bach

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by dd17 View Post
                          Do you have the stats on per game ice time? From the games I saw Bach never leaves the ice. Full power play time. Can’t say the same about watts.
                          Which means that Bach is actually less productive than Watts in a points-per-minute comparison. You actually sabotaged the point you were trying to make. Way to go. Watts should win the Kaz without any politics involved but we all know there's always politics with these things. It will be a huge shame if she doesn't win it.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ARM View Post
                            Does anyone know why Julie Chu is not credited with the NCAA rookie scoring record? I've always thought that she had 93 points, and as far as I can tell, those all came versus NCAA programs. Is there some opponent for Harvard in 2002-03 that would cause those points to not be legit?
                            Who is listed as the record? I tried to find it.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

                              Bach has the advantage when you consider the advanced statistics: for example, she outdoes Watt in RALHTAR (Rink-Adjusted Left-Hand Turns Above Replacement) by 12.2 to 11.9.

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                              • #45
                                Re: PK 2018 - Who do you have?

                                Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
                                BU, at a minimum. I'm not sure who else might not count, possibilities would include Wayne State, Niagara, and UConn (just because I have no idea).
                                BU would definitely not count, but Chu didn't have any points vs BU. Niagara was a FF team the season before. I think Wayne State is fine, because that was its fourth season IIRC. Lindstat had been at UConn for a while by then, so I think the Huskies are fine a well.

                                Anyway, I see that Chu is listed fifth in the points list, so that would give her the highest season of any rookie:
                                http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/w_iceh...rb/2018/D1.pdf

                                The people announcing the Beanpot ignored her, but that could be because they just had no idea she was a freshman in 2002-2003.
                                "... And lose, and start again at your beginnings
                                And never breathe a word about your loss;" -- Rudyard Kipling

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