US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

[mookie1995]

Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

This looks great! Every college and HS kid in America should be taught what a vile, evil bastard sob Allen Dulles was.
https://youtu.be/3az-0IALCpY

just following orders

(any idea what the new name of the airport may be now?? )

[solovsfett]

just following orders

(any idea what the new name of the airport may be now?? )

😀😀

Good point on Dulles airport. Honestly since the Dulles brothers had their banking buddies provide millions of dollars to IG Farben and the nazi’s they committed treason. Just to **** off the CIA and **** on the Dulles brothers rename the airport with any of the following: Arbenz field, Mossadegh airport, RFK airport, JFK international, Sandinista field (if gop goes nuts tell em it’s about The Clash!), Guevera airport. 😈😈😈

[Jimjamesak]

😀😀

Good point on Dulles airport. Honestly since the Dulles brothers had their banking buddies provide millions of dollars to IG Farben and the nazi’s they committed treason. Just to **** of the CIA and **** on the Dulles brothers rename the airport with any of the following: Arbenz field, Mossadegh airport, RFK airport, JFK international, Sandinista field (if gop goes nuts tell em it’s about The Clash!), Guevera airport. 😈😈😈

Would Sandinista Field have a constant loop of “Washington Bullets” and “Police On My Back” playing in the background?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

Well positioned. In your example, you could see a rationale side to such an act.

However, I would say that the case of our policy of torture varies from that scenario in two ways 1) that the benefits of torture for policy are much more intangible or unknown (we can't know the true linkage to threats or our ability to execute on that information) 2) there are many dangers of both us overdoing torture and/or having the 'bad men' not just be those being tortured but those doing the torture.

I agree. I wasn't trying to defend waterboarding, etc. as an acceptable policy.

[solovsfett]

Would Sandinista Field have a constant loop of “Washington Bullets” and “Police On My Back” playing in the background?

You bet!

[Jimjamesak]

You bet!

Then I am 100% behind this proposal.

[joecct]

This looks great! Every college and HS kid in America should be taught what a vile, evil bastard sob Allen Dulles was.
https://youtu.be/3az-0IALCpY

Allen "OSS" Dulles? Brother of John Foster(Dull, Duller) Dulles? Uncle of Avery Cardinal Dulles? That Dulles?

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

You're missing the whole point. Obviously Mommy's going to do that if she thinks it will save her child. That's what Mommy does.

The problem is, torture doesn't work. The victim just makes up whatever they think the torturer wants to hear to make the pain stop. Anyone will say anything. That's how you get people confessing to making deals with the devil to poison the wheat crop. Everybody who has ever studied torture understands this.

Despite the universal knowledge among people who study torture that it doesn't work, some people in positions of authority still have their fantasies drawn to it. Those people want to torture. They're not interested in information -- they're either sadists who love inflicting pain or they're cynics who know that projecting sadism plays well with the apes among us.

I was simply suggesting your labeling of Haspel as a definitive monster is unsupported. There are obviously reasons other than being a sadist that Haspel may have for whatever actions she may have taken. I merely suggested a set of facts that would compel nearly everyone to take similar actions. She wasn't a Greystone interrogator herself, and as a middle management type person in the field directly confronting terrorists immediately post 9/11, I suspect the picture was a bit different than it is from my living room 17 years later.

Of course it is possible Haspel is indeed a monster. I just don't see the case for it as overly compelling. It's also possible Obama got off on watching footage of Predator drones blasting away while alone late at night in the situation room. But I don't come to that conclusion either.

[solovsfett]

Allen "OSS" Dulles? Brother of John Foster(Dull, Duller) Dulles? Uncle of Avery Cardinal Dulles? That Dulles?

That’s the one! I believe there were three Secretaries of State from that family including John Foster.

Devil’s Chessboard is an amazing read on Allen Dulles. Operation sunrise, operation Ajax and so much more.

[joecct]

That’s the one! I believe there were three Secretaries of State from that family including John Foster.

Devil’s Chessboard is an amazing read on Allen Dulles. Operation sunrise, operation Ajax and so much more.

"The United States doesn't have friends. It has interests."
- Charles deGaulle -- falsely attributed to J.F. Dulles.

[ticapnews]

I was simply suggesting your labeling of Haspel as a definitive monster is unsupported. There are obviously reasons other than being a sadist that Haspel may have for whatever actions she may have taken. I merely suggested a set of facts that would compel nearly everyone to take similar actions. She wasn't a Greystone interrogator herself, and as a middle management type person in the field directly confronting terrorists immediately post 9/11, I suspect the picture was a bit different than it is from my living room 17 years later.

Of course it is possible Haspel is indeed a monster. I just don't see the case for it as overly compelling. It's also possible Obama got off on watching footage of Predator drones blasting away while alone late at night in the situation room. But I don't come to that conclusion either.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/gina-haspel-questions-cia.html

Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/gina-haspel-questions-cia.html

Yeah, she's a real sweetheart.

Sweetheart? That's sexist!


Haspel was in Thailand (Catseye) for two and half months in late '02 -- two years before Boudchar was allegedly taken there. Haspel was working in National Resources in '04-'05 (National Resources conducts voluntary debriefs and recruits travelers and business people both foreign and domestic)

Do you know who Fatima Boudchar or her husband Abdul-Hakim Belhaj are? He was at that time, a commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a UN declared terrorist organization and close affiliate of OBL, Al Qaida, and the Taliban. I don't personally condone what was done to them, but these folks aren't exactly complete innocents with no agenda.

[ticapnews]

Sweetheart? That's sexist!


Haspel was in Thailand (Catseye) for two and half months in late '02 -- two years before Boudchar was allegedly taken there. Haspel was working in National Resources in '04-'05 (National Resources conducts voluntary debriefs and recruits travelers and business people both foreign and domestic)

Do you know who Fatima Boudchar or her husband Abdul-Hakim Belhaj are? He was at that time, a commander of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group, a UN declared terrorist organization and close affiliate of OBL, Al Qaida, and the Taliban. I don't personally condone what was done to them, but these folks aren't exactly complete innocents with no agenda.

Yeah...that totally justified her being a monster. You turned me right around there.

You understand we put Japanese to death for less, right?

[solovsfett]

Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

I do have a hard time feeling sorry for terrorists but then again we must acknowledge two BIG facts. We considered water boarding torture in WWII and persecuted the Japanese for doing that and that follows it IS torture and against not only charters but against our silly idea that we’re “the best”. Whatever the hell that means.

But looming larger over all of this is the fact we basically created our enemies in the Taliban and AQ. We arm people then declare them enemies with a stunning consistency and here is one of the worst actors in our foreign policy history at work: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kYvO3qAlyTg


And Bill Hicks with some honesty: https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk
https://youtu.be/hYWdzigyzNk

[solovsfett]

"The United States doesn't have friends. It has interests."
- Charles deGaulle -- falsely attributed to J.F. Dulles.

Yes. No-one needs to embellish or lie about John Foster Dulles’ or Allen Welsh Dulles’ words or actions, their treason (and other misdeeds) speaks for itself really. If FDR had lived two more years he’d have had them brought up on charges of treason and then our world would have become a better place and millions of people (including Vietnamese, Cambodians, JFK, RFK, Nicaraguans, Guatemalan’s etc) would have lived in a better world.