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US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
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Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!
"but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.
"I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2
Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!
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Originally posted by Slap Shot View PostLink?CCT '77 & '78
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by Kepler View PostIt's gotta be in the brain. It's such a distinct difference of beings. I can't crawl into a beta brain. I assume they can't crawl into mine.“Demolish the bridges behind you… then there is no choice but to build again.”
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by aparch View PostSee: Stanley Milgram Experiment, 1961.
Virtually every person in the Milgram experiments, (which have been repeated in various ways since) regardless of background, delivers a potentially lethal shock to a fellow human being for no morally defensible reason at all.
We regularly abhor what someone else has done in a given set of circumstances, yet fail to comprehend at all that we ourselves*, when placed in a similar circumstance, would be very, very likely to act in the same terrible manner.
* meaning all of you. I myself would, of course, act honorably.Originally posted by WiscTJKI'm with Wisko and Tim.Originally posted by Timothy AOther than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
https://t.co/2tSW1WmwQ4?amp=1
EDIT: stocks up on tin foil and thinner😆Last edited by solovsfett; 05-15-2018, 11:03 AM.Everything in its right place, Wisconsin Hockey National Champs!
"but you're not as confused as him are you. it's not your job to be as confused as Nigel". Tap pt 1.
"I think it's ****ing stock. What--? Which part of that is unclear to you? I think it sounds stock to my ears. I mean, do you want me to write it down?" Tap Pt. 2
Who???! So What!!!! Big Deal!!!!
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View PostYeah, the problem isn't that of two different types of brain, we being of one type, and they being of another. It's that it's incomprehensible to us that our own brains are of the same type as theirs.
Virtually every person in the Milgram experiments, (which have been repeated in various ways since) regardless of background, delivers a potentially lethal shock to a fellow human being for no morally defensible reason at all.
We regularly abhor what someone else has done in a given set of circumstances, yet fail to comprehend at all that we ourselves*, when placed in a similar circumstance, would be very, very likely to act in the same terrible manner.
* meaning all of you. I myself would, of course, act honorably.
One of the scariest results from Milgram was that education and intelligence made no difference in the reluctance (or not) of the subjects from torturing. This is not at all what I would have expected, and in fact is so incongruous (and unreplicated for obvious human subject reasons) that it feels like a wrong result to me, but... there it is.Last edited by Kepler; 05-15-2018, 10:36 AM.Cornell University
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Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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"It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
-aparch
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by Handyman View PostThe Trumpers/Bots replying to that are...special.
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KDR
Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.
Test to see if I can add this.
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by French Rage View PostWill they release it along with the birth certificate and whitey tape?Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by Kepler View PostI think there likely are different brains, in the sense that conservatives were dropped on their head as children or their parents had fetal alcohol syndrome or something, but Milgram was about deference to authority (the degree, the lab coat, the structure of the experiment) and the results were devastatingly uniform.
One of the scariest results from Milgram was that education and intelligence made no difference in the reluctance (or not) of the subjects from torturing. This is not at all what I would have expected, and in fact is so incongruous (and unreplicated for obvious human subject reasons) that it feels like a wrong result to me, but... there it is.
Anyway, the basis of all sales is the simple rule that everyone will agree to an action the moment the perceived benefit outweighs the perceived cost. As far as I have observed, there's no upper limit to this rule -- You, me, everyone -- We would all readily agree even to commit murder so long as these conditions are arranged. (because, of course, this is the basic formula for decision making. ) For some individuals, the introduction of an accomplice often reduces the perceived cost to an action by half. But the introduction of authority to the equation lowers the cost perception factor to as low as zero for some, but at the least, it reduces perceived cost by more than half for virtually everyone. So an action that had initially required a benefit of 10, is reduced to perhaps only needing to meet a measly benefit of 3 to be readily undertaken.
My feeling is, this is why Milgram works, shocking (pun) as it may be. And being smart just doesn't help enough in determining that a concrete fact is not, in reality, a fact at all. From my experience I'd say people who are immune to the experiment would be very rare. (Perhaps the Dalai Lama or maybe John Wayne for very different reasons) I myself don't find it surprising though. It doesn't necessarily suggest people are uniformly evil or uncaring, but rather are uniformly very poor at correctly assessing situations and/or making decisions under certain kinds of circumstances. Because whether those circumstances are arranged or come about by chance doesn't matter, I personally have found it's always been very useful to be suspicious of certainty wherever it's found.Originally posted by WiscTJKI'm with Wisko and Tim.Originally posted by Timothy AOther than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View PostGetting far afield here but in my college years I tended bar and also sold stuff door to door for a while. The former allows a great opportunity to observe people and the latter was probably worth more than any 20 courses in psychology and human behavior. As it turns out, people are very easy to manipulate. Even the well educated/highly intelligent who are often more susceptible to certain logical arguments and also generally posses a high self-confidence in their ability to assess a situation for what it "really" is. Naturally, this can be used against them. And once smart folks reach the tipping point, they aren't as likely to go back as they usually have a strong confidence about (their perception of) the facts that a less educated or intelligent person doesn't as easily arrive at.
Anyway, the basis of all sales is the simple rule that everyone will agree to an action the moment the perceived benefit outweighs the perceived cost. As far as I have observed, there's no upper limit to this rule -- You, me, everyone -- We would all readily agree even to commit murder so long as these conditions are arranged. (because, of course, this is the basic formula for decision making. ) For some individuals, the introduction of an accomplice often reduces the perceived cost to an action by half. But the introduction of authority to the equation lowers the cost perception factor to as low as zero for some, but at the least, it reduces perceived cost by more than half for virtually everyone. So an action that had initially required a benefit of 10, is reduced to perhaps only needing to meet a measly benefit of 3 to be readily undertaken.
My feeling is, this is why Milgram works, shocking (pun) as it may be. And being smart just doesn't help enough in determining that a concrete fact is not, in reality, a fact at all. From my experience I'd say people who are immune to the experiment would be very rare. (Perhaps the Dalai Lama or maybe John Wayne for very different reasons) I myself don't find it surprising though. It doesn't necessarily suggest people are uniformly evil or uncaring, but rather are uniformly very poor at correctly assessing situations and/or making decisions under certain kinds of circumstances. Because whether those circumstances are arranged or come about by chance doesn't matter, I personally have found it's always been very useful to be suspicious of certainty wherever it's found.Cornell University
National Champion 1967, 1970
ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
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Originally posted by Wisko McBadgerton View PostAnd once smart folks reach the tipping point, they aren't as likely to go back as they usually have a strong confidence about (their perception of) the facts that a less educated or intelligent person doesn't as easily arrive at.
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Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?
Originally posted by unofan View PostDunning-Kruger called and disagrees with this assessment.Originally posted by WiscTJKI'm with Wisko and Tim.Originally posted by Timothy AOther than Wisko McBadgerton and Badger Bob, who is universally loved by all?
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