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Thread: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

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    US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Let the dialog continue.

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    I get the sense that there is some behind-the-scenes diplomacy going on that has far-reaching potential for great outcomes.

    US recently announced expanded oil/gas drilling on US continental shelf; and new tax bill also allowed for exploration in Arctic Reserve.
    Tillerson probably fully aware of power of US flooding market with supply to constrain Russia and Iran by containing what they can get in the market for their oil and gas.
    Was Saudi Arabia notified in advance?
    Note how new Crown Prince has been working to introduce moderation in Saudi Arabian society; he even announced a more tolerant form of Islam to be promoted going forward.*
    Meanwhile, Trump's announcement to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital helps marginalize Palestinians even further: now, they either accept Israel's right to exist or be left totally behind: this move helps set the stage for a Saudi-Israel alliance against Iran.





    *
    Saudi leaders, spurred by the need to diversify the oil-dependent economy, are moving faster than any of their predecessors to unravel the legacy of Islamic conservatism that had taken hold of the country four decades ago and shaped the education of generations.

    Spearheading the transformation is 32-year-old Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who sees social liberalization as a vital part of his radical economic modernization plan and has vowed to return his country to a more tolerant form of Islam.

    “We are only going back to how we were: to the tolerant, moderate Islam that is open to the world, to all the religions and traditions of its people,” Prince Mohammed said during an investment conference in Riyadh in October.

    ....

    Last year, the government also began sending teachers abroad to see how Western schools function, a step partly aimed at tackling extremism among educators.

    “We are moving in a new direction for education and a new direction for the country,” said Saudi Education Minister Ahmed al-Eissa. He added that new textbooks, scrubbed of vitriol, will be rolled out in the next academic year.

    In 2016, the Saudi government stripped the religious police of its power to arrest, the most consequential result of the eroding alliance between the monarchy and the clerical establishment.

    The Muslim World League—a body that was once the key vehicle through which Saudi Arabia spread Wahhabi ideology beyond its border—is now led by a moderate cleric, who says promoting greater understanding among faiths is a priority.

    “In 1979 our religion was hijacked,” said Sheikh Mohammed al-Issa, a former minister of justice, who in a gesture of tolerance routinely encourages the non-Muslim women he meets to remove their headscarves, “Now we are eradicating the roots of extremism.”
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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Emergency! Emergency!
    Everybody to get from street!

    THE RUSSIANS ARE COMINK!!

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-miami-n836121

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by FreshFish View Post
    I get the sense that there is some behind-the-scenes diplomacy going on that has far-reaching potential for great outcomes.

    US recently announced expanded oil/gas drilling on US continental shelf; and new tax bill also allowed for exploration in Arctic Reserve.
    Tillerson probably fully aware of power of US flooding market with supply to constrain Russia and Iran by containing what they can get in the market for their oil and gas.
    Was Saudi Arabia notified in advance?
    Note how new Crown Prince has been working to introduce moderation in Saudi Arabian society; he even announced a more tolerant form of Islam to be promoted going forward.*
    Meanwhile, Trump's announcement to recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital helps marginalize Palestinians even further: now, they either accept Israel's right to exist or be left totally behind: this move helps set the stage for a Saudi-Israel alliance against Iran.
    Holy non sequitur Batman!

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Emergency! Emergency!
    Everybody to get from street!

    THE RUSSIANS ARE COMINK!!

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...-miami-n836121
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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Ecuador gives Assange citizenship; he had requested diplomatic immunity last month, and her Majesty's government said "NI!". Negotiations continue.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/w...r-embassy.html
    Michigan Tech: "Working with scraps and guys from places so remote that Houghton seems like a metropolis"

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Ecuador gives Assange citizenship; he had requested diplomatic immunity last month, and her Majesty's government said "NI!". Negotiations continue.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/w...r-embassy.html
    Required
    "I went over the facts in my head, and admired how much uglier the situation had just become. Over the years I've learned that ignorance is more than just bliss. It's freaking orgasmic ecstasy".- Harry Dresden, Blood Rites


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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    Holy non sequitur Batman!
    "Saudis jettison Palestinians in secret alliance with Israel to take down Iranian mullahs, knowing US will be using low-cost oil as geopolitical weapon, and Saudis accept the need to diversify away from oil in order to take down Iran. To diversify from oil they will need foreign assistance and so they will bring Islam into the modern world in order to get it."
    "Hope is a good thing; maybe the best of things."

    "Beer is a sign that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -- Benjamin Franklin

    "Being Irish, he had an abiding sense of tragedy, which sustained him through temporary periods of joy." -- W. B. Yeats

    "People generally are most impatient with those flaws in others about which they are most ashamed of in themselves." - folk wisdom

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Do foreign policy nerds wake up at night in a cold sweat over what would result from a revolution in SA, or do we have some cajones in our hands on that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Do foreign policy nerds wake up at night in a cold sweat over what would result from a revolution in SA, or do we have some cajones in our hands on that one.
    Should we care? Are the days of "He may be a dictator, but he's OUR dictator" over?

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Do foreign policy nerds wake up at night in a cold sweat over what would result from a revolution in SA, or do we have some cajones in our hands on that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Should we care? Are the days of "He may be a dictator, but he's OUR dictator" over?
    This will seem dense, joe, but what do you mean?

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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    This will seem dense, joe, but what do you mean?
    Why should we wake up in a sweat? We used to, but is it in our national interests these days.

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Why should we wake up in a sweat? We used to, but is it in our national interests these days.
    We have looked the other way when it was "our dictator," and I assume we will continue to do that out of self interest. I'm just wondering if, in this modern climate of some pretty radical political changes, experts grow pale at the thought of a major change in SA. It has strategic importance in so many ways. I doubt many predicted what happened to our guy in Iran in 1979 and, more recently, few predicted Brexit, the spontaneous uprisings in North Africa, or even Trump.

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    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Do foreign policy nerds wake up at night in a cold sweat over what would result from a revolution in SA, or do we have some cajones in our hands on that one.
    Nerds don’t refer to them as SA, #1


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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by mookie1995 View Post
    Nerds don’t refer to them as SA, #1

    Did I give myself away?

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Arming and training rebels worked so well in Afghanistan and Iraq - let's try it again!
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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?


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    Re: US Foreign Policy 2.0: Have you read Kipling, Mr. Tillerson?

    Quote Originally Posted by FadeToBlack&Gold View Post
    Arming and training rebels worked so well in Afghanistan and Iraq - let's try it again!
    We never learn. Never.
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