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Thread: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

  1. #421
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    You sound like you work for the Strib

    (sorry about your mom I meant no offense)
    No worries.
    But just remember: I could have her start correcting our posts!
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  2. #422
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    He's rural. That's all the information I need.
    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    What does that even mean?
    He's from outside the 494/694 beltway.
    Next question.
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  3. #423

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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    No worries.
    But just remember: I could have her start correcting our posts!
    If the 45-second rule holds you really only have to get her started on the first one...
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    He's rural. That's all the information I need.
    Um. It's Minnesota. They're all rural...
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  5. #425
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    Fear is what drives and motivates people. There always needs to be a big bad, a boogeyman that is willing to kill/destroy you.
    Yup.
    Create a talisman/bogeyman and waive it at the adoring masses.

    See: George Soros
    See also: Koch Brothers
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    This is hogwash. Liberals don’t necessarily come from an academic or intellectual tradition. The DFL party in Minnesota comes from, literally, Democrats, farmers, and laborers.
    How many farmers and laborers make up the DFL today?

    Blue collar liberals went out with Al Smith PBUH. Even a "blue collar" icon like Handsome Joe is just playing a part. Liberalism has been a college pep band since the 60s, which also dates to when all the anti-intellectual drivel dredged up against the left went plaid.
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Um, how many farmers and laborers make up the DFL today?
    Near Zero.
    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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  8. #428
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    If the 45-second rule holds you really only have to get her started on the first one...
    That's the boggler: She can focus reading through and correcting a document; but, a minute later she can't tell you what it was about (or that she did it).
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    She can focus reading through and correcting a document; but, a minute later she can't tell you what it was about
    Yeah, but that describes me, too. My retention of something I read for work is exactly as long as it takes me to complete any pending action on it. The second I'm done it's out through the Memory Hole.
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  10. #430
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by dxmnkd316 View Post
    This is hogwash. Liberals donít necessarily come from an academic or intellectual tradition. The DFL party in Minnesota comes from, literally, Democrats, farmers, and laborers.
    Wasn't it Noam Chomsky that said something like 'history refutes the claim that it's better to be smart than stupid'?

    So now I'm confused: I thought Flyover folks were to be disregarded as ignoramuses (ignorami?) ... unless they are part of the MN DFL?
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  11. #431
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Yeah, but that describes me, too. My retention of something I read for work is exactly as long as it takes me to complete any pending action on it. The second I'm done it's out through the Memory Hole.
    I feel ya bro.

    < virtual high five >
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    Yup.
    Create a talisman/bogeyman and waive it at the adoring masses.

    See: George Soros
    See also: Koch Brothers
    But blacks, mexicans, gays, muslims . . . those are the ones that will get folks running to the voting booth to make America great again.

  13. #433
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    BTW a bit on Walz:

    "Upon his swearing in, Walz became the highest-ranking retired enlisted soldier ever to serve in Congress,[13] as well as only the fourth Democrat/DFLer to represent the 1st District. The others were Thomas Wilson (1887–89), William Harries (1891–93), and Tim Penny (1983–95).

    Walz serves on the House Agriculture Committee,[14] Committee on Veterans' Affairs, and the Armed Services Committee. Along with fellow Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison, Walz opposed President Bush's plan to increase troop levels in Iraq.[15] In his first week as a legislator, Walz cosponsored a bill to raise the minimum wage, voted for stem cell research, voted to allow Medicare to negotiate pharmaceutical prices, and voiced support for pay-as-you-go budget rules, requiring that new spending or tax changes not add to the federal deficit.[16]

    Representing a district that has traditionally voted Republican, Walz has cast votes ranging from moderate to liberal.[17] He voted against the act to Prohibit Federally Funded Abortion Services,[18] and voted to advance the Affordable Care Act out of the House.[19] He has also voted to continue funding for military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan,[20] and against the 2008 TARP bill, which purchased troubled assets from financial institutions.[21]

    Walz received a 100% rating from Planned Parenthood in 2012, from the ACLU in 2011, from the American Immigration Lawyers Association in 2009–10, from the AFL-CIO in 2010, from the Teamsters in 2009–10, and from NOW in 2007. In recent years he has received single-digit ratings from the National Taxpayers' Union, Citizens against Government Waste, Americans for Tax Reform, and Freedom Works. The US Chamber of Commerce gave him a 25% rating in 2010.[22] Walz was ranked the 7th most bipartisan member of the House during the 114th Congress (and the most bipartisan member from Minnesota) in the Bipartisan Index created by The Lugar Center and the McCourt School of Public Policy that ranks members of Congress by measuring how often their bills attract co-sponsors from the opposite party and how often they co-sponsor bills by members of the opposite party.[23]"

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  14. #434
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    How about anything Muslim related since 9/11? How about the election of Trump (Hillary for as awful as she was at least put the truth out there...Trump bred fear and won)
    Well this and the red scare definitely work among the right wing voters, or at least did in the past. Has the left really ever used this successfully though? That's more what I'm arguing here.

    Look at how often fear has been used to deny people rights for centuries. Fear was used to deny Women equal rights, Black people any rights, kept the natives of the Southwestern US in slavehood until the 1870s and has been used to keep people in line with the US Government even today. Its a joke now but remember anyone against the Iraq War was often asked "Why do you hate America?".
    All good points but again this has worked for the right, can it really be used the same way for the left? I agree that the fear of becoming WI is real to us but to the less politically inclined voters on the left what does this even mean to them? More of the same being offered and running as Dayton 2.0 and being fearful of WI might be just enough to backdoor your way into a win by default (simply because the other side is incompetent) but I think it's risky. I'm not as confident about Duluth and I don't think Dayton is quite as popular as you think he is. If he was I don't think the republicans wouldn've have gained as many seats as they did in the house/senate.
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 02-13-2018 at 02:17 PM.

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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Well this and the red scare definitely work among the right wing voters, or at least did in the past. Has the left really ever used this successfully though? That's more what I'm arguing here.
    The left used to scare old ladies that the GOP would take away their social security, but that's got a lot more credence since the GOP is trying to take away their social security. Likewise scaring women that the GOP wants to grab them by the p-ssy, which, well, given this GOP again it's perfectly understandable.

    The Deniers would view environmentalism as a scare tactic but the Deniers are also illiterate bozos.

    I don't think the left has anything equivalent to the fullscale lies the right uses, e.g. "IF YOU VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS THEY WILL TAKE YOUR GUNZ AND MAKE CHRISTIANITY ILLEGAL AND TAKE ALL YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY BECAUSE COMMUNISM OH NOES!!!!11"

    Fear is a far more effective motivator of the right than the left because conservatism has its roots in fear. It has been used in every rightwing campaign to make people first afraid and then violent. It is the lynchpin of fascism.
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    The underlying question is where does Minnesota want to go? Cause it's been trending more and more red every election cycle. People think just because we've been the "Sure State for the Democratic Party in Presidential Elections" that there isn't real trends that point the other direction. Does Minnesota stay liberal? Stay Blue? Or do they naturally progress to be like Wisconsin and Iowa their two closest neighbors
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    The underlying question is where does Minnesota want to go? Cause it's been trending more and more red every election cycle. People think just because we've been the "Sure State for the Democratic Party in Presidential Elections" that there isn't real trends that point the other direction. Does Minnesota stay liberal? Stay Blue? Or do they naturally progress to be like Wisconsin and Iowa their two closest neighbors
    Presumably the white trash part of the state gets redder, the college / city portion gets bluer, and then the suburbanites vote for whoever lies to them most effectively each cycle. Just like about 40 other states.
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post

    Fear is a far more effective motivator of the right than the left because conservatism has its roots in fear. It has been used in every rightwing campaign to make people first afraid and then violent. It is the lynchpin of fascism.
    Roots at what depth? Something like the amygdala factor?

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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by burd View Post
    Roots at what depth? The amygdala factor?
    I don't know about that. I meant philosophy. Conservatism is resistance to change. It is the natural tendency to prefer to stay at X rather than move to Y because the thing about X that's certain is I haven't died at X yet.

    That's why the American right is no longer conservative. They have been radically changing America for thirty years, now. They are Utopians. Paradoxically, this could mean they are less likely to be motivated by fear, but instead can be motivated by fanaticism.
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    Re: The States: Doing Their Own Thing...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    The left used to scare old ladies that the GOP would take away their social security, but that's got a lot more credence since the GOP is trying to take away their social security. Likewise scaring women that the GOP wants to grab them by the p-ssy, which, well, given this GOP again it's perfectly understandable.

    The Deniers would view environmentalism as a scare tactic but the Deniers are also illiterate bozos.

    I don't think the left has anything equivalent to the fullscale lies the right uses, e.g. "IF YOU VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS THEY WILL TAKE YOUR GUNZ AND MAKE CHRISTIANITY ILLEGAL AND TAKE ALL YOUR PRIVATE PROPERTY BECAUSE COMMUNISM OH NOES!!!!11"

    Fear is a far more effective motivator of the right than the left because conservatism has its roots in fear. It has been used in every rightwing campaign to make people first afraid and then violent. It is the lynchpin of fascism.
    Right, I would agree and I'm not trying to argue that fear tactics never work on the left or should never be used. But I think we'd both agree that it's probably not as effective as running on actual material improvement of peoples' everyday lives. Rather than "we're not WI" or "we're not Trump" or what you're not planning to do essentially (which is basically the bare minimum).
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 02-13-2018 at 02:33 PM.

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