POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

[unofan]

There kind of is. If a third party ever starts to catch fire one of the duopoly co-opts them. So you can influence a major by supporting a minor. It's indirect but there is a drivetrain there.

And it sure beats the throw up your hands "what can you do?" act.

Well, yeah. All Democratic governments are governments of coalition, we just differ in how we get there. Here, the coalitions are the two major parties: the GOP is made up of tea partiers, neo cons, the religious right, and a few hold out traditional conservatives. The Dems have the academics, the minorities, the liberals, and increasingly the moderates (aka former fiscal conservatives).

The best way to realign your preferred coalition is to get involved in the primary process. Because that's where is decided whether your coalition gets represented by a nutjob or someone electable.

[busterman62]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

And they put GW Bush and Donald Trump in the White House. In other words, they're ducks.

If the initial reports are correct, those ducks in Bama put Jones in the Senate

[unofan]

We may be closer to having a fairly large 3rd party than people think, but it's a scary one. I think 1 very large reason Turtle Boy, Ryan, and their ilk haven't shunned Trump is because they are scared to death he will break away from them and their party and essentially start his own party, taking maybe 25-30% of their voting block with him. And that scares them to death. So for now, they are stuck with him.

Which would last about one presidential cycle since in our first past the post system, it would guarantee Dem victories not seen since the 60s.

Then the splinter group and the remaining Republicans would rejoin out of necessity. Though the damage might already be done.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

If the initial reports are correct, those ducks in Bama put Jones in the Senate

Then you have no idea what a duck is.

[Drew S.]

Which would last about one presidential cycle since in our first past the post system, it would guarantee Dem victories not seen since the 60s.

Then the splinter group and the remaining Republicans would rejoin out of necessity. Though the damage might already be done.

It would open the door for a Bernie type group to break off from the Dems, which I think would happen.

[bronconick]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

There kind of is. If a third party ever starts to catch fire one of the duopoly co-opts them. So you can influence a major by supporting a minor. It's indirect but there is a drivetrain there.

And it sure beats the throw up your hands "what can you do?" act.

Or you have fascists primary their way into having influence over a major party.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

The best way to realign your preferred coalition is to get involved in the primary process. Because that's where is decided whether your coalition gets represented by a nutjob or someone electable.

Of course. You fight hard for your team until the World Series, then you fight hard for your league.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

Or you have fascists primary their way into having influence over a major party.

That happens if the major party is morally and mentally weak, the way the GOP was. They were easy pickings -- the rotten stump that gave way at the first kick.

But the thing is, that can also work for good. The Democratic party is pretty weak too. A good strong kick from a European style democratic-socialist coalition could return the party to its New Deal roots in one stroke.

The GOP showed a party can jump three timezones and still win. The Democratic party could do the same: we could expunge the last fifty years of our slow rightward deathmarch in one go. The country is so split in partisanship, and the opposition so committed to believing we are the devil incarnate anyway, that it makes no difference. So we might as well compete as Democratic and not Republican Lite.

[unofan]

It would open the door for a Bernie type group to break off from the Dems, which I think would happen.

While I understand the historical nature of the Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, that's some awfully wishful/delusional thinking on your part.

A tea party splinter would have nothing to do with Bernie bros. And the Dems already had their reckoning with the green party in 2000.

[geezer]

The GOP showed a party can jump three timezones and still win. The Democratic party could do the same: we could expunge the last fifty years of our slow rightward deathmarch in one go. The country is so split in partisanship, and the opposition so committed to believing we are the devil incarnate anyway, that it makes no difference. So we might as well compete as Democratic and not Republican Lite.

Anti-Trumpism provides the best ever opportunity for this, with a critical caveat: everyone needs to be invited onboard. That means jettisoning identity politics in favor of health care and food etc for ALL the poor people including white straight US citizens who are being betrayed by Trump and looking for an alternative.

[Spartanforlife4]

It would open the door for a Bernie type group to break off from the Dems, which I think would happen.

There's a Dem Socialist group that popped up after the election, but it doesn't act as a separate party, it's more to push support for progressive candidates on Dem tickets.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

While I understand the historical nature of the Dems to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory

With the single (and lethal) exception of the Hillary coronation the Democrats haven't done this for a decade or more. We've actually become quite competent.

I understand this is a shock -- I haven't gotten used to it either to be honest. But it's true.

We are much, much better run now than the GOP.

[Kepler]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

Anti-Trumpism provides the best ever opportunity for this, with a critical caveat: everyone needs to be invited onboard. That means jettisoning identity politics in favor of health care and food etc for ALL the poor people including white straight US citizens who are being betrayed by Trump and looking for an alternative.

No question. I fight every day on Kos to get people to stop reflexively dissing white males. White Poors are f-cked even harder by the GOP than minority women. We'll never get the Thumpers but every other white Poor ought to vote straight ticket Democratic out of sheer self-preservation. The Republicans are literally trying to enslave them and all but have.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

There are always alternate parties on every ballot I've seen. Always.

Fairly certain the point being made is that they usually aren't a viable option for winning, especially considering they're not invited to general debates. That's why, if you want to break up the duopoly, you have to infiltrate it.

[rufus]

Re: POTUS 45.25: Oh Jesus, What Now

There ARE politicians fighting for good things. I never said otherwise. What I said was that even THOSE politicians are getting their hands dirty to further their cause. To employ a common phrase, "Don't hate the playa, hate the game."

Well, I hate the game.

So, which do we, the voter, support? The politician getting his hands dirty to do good things, or the politician who gets his hands dirty taking healthcare away from poor people in order to give tax breaks to billionaires?

Yes, there are different levels of dirt. That you don't care to distinguish between them says everything about you.

You want 435 saintly members of congress? you're gonna be waiting a long time, while the ones you support steal everything that isn't locked down and hands it to the 1%. Joe, you can pay attention to this too.