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UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

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  • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
    I'm guessing faceoffs are something the Coaching staff loves. It is a gritty "intangible" they can focus on, and ignore the putrid play in between faceoffs.
    http://www.thehockeynews.com/news/ar...made-out-to-be

    http://edmontonjournal.com/sports/ho...what-its-worth
    Ok, we do not like FO win%.

    How about +/-? Is +/- a useful stat?

    Comment


    • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

      Firmly lining myself up against Chuck.How about shots on goal as the best roughest indicator, with more sophisticated stats of possession in zones.
      https://www.secondcityhockey.com/201...-corsi-fenwick

      Essentially, in order to shoot the puck, you have to possess the puck. Since we do not have the technology or another practical way to measure time of possession in hockey, we must employ a proxy. The measurement referred to as Corsi basically uses every shot toward the goal throughout the game. Every time some meatball in the nosebleeds yells “SHOOT!” and a player obliges, a Corsi event is recorded. Fenwick measures the same thing as Corsi but excludes blocked shots.

      And totally old school, the eyeball test, but measured based on possession and not "toughness" in the corner. I'll take possession, regardless of whether done by finesse or brawn
      Last edited by NCAA watcher; 01-16-2018, 06:59 PM.
      The Souza record:
      15-16 10th place
      16-17 10th place
      17-18 11th place
      18-19 8th place
      19-20 9th place
      20-21 10th place
      21-22 9th place
      22-23 10th place

      Comment


      • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
        Firmly lining myself up against Chuck.How about shots on goal as the best roughest indicator, with more sophisticated stats of possession in zones.
        https://www.secondcityhockey.com/201...-corsi-fenwick


        And totally old school, the eyeball test, but measured based on possession and not "toughness" in the corner. I'll take possession, regardless of whether done by finesse or brawn
        A couple of us here like SOG. :-)

        I vaguely remember Fenwick talking about Corsi in the old HockeyL days, I think?

        Comment


        • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

          Any insight on this Yale recruit Justin Pearson out of Bishop Guertin? http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=386534
          YALE HOCKEY
          2013 National Champions

          Comment


          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

            Originally posted by LTsatch View Post
            Any insight on this Yale recruit Justin Pearson out of Bishop Guertin? http://www.eliteprospects.com/player.php?player=386534
            We have a fourth liner, Frankie Cefalu, who USCHO thinks is from Buffalo, New Hampshire.

            Comment


            • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

              I was NOT talking about face-off winning percentage. I was discussing going into an offensive zone face-off with an organized plan, both if the draw is won and if the draw is lost. There is statistically a correlation between puck possession by a team and the likelihood of winning the game. Also, how a team performs the first few seconds from a face-off influences puck possession and offensive zone time. So I am just saying UNH does not have well thought out plays from face-offs which reflect in the team’s performance and their ability to win games!

              Watch this weekend games, focus on offensive zone face-offs and share your thoughts afterwards.

              Comment


              • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

                Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post
                And totally old school, the eyeball test, but measured based on possession and not "toughness" in the corner. I'll take possession, regardless of whether done by finesse or brawn
                Didn't see or listen to the BC game, but BU dominated possession. Brutal.
                I will not be out cheered in my own building.

                Comment


                • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

                  Originally posted by Darius View Post
                  Didn't see or listen to the BC game, but BU dominated possession. Brutal.
                  Good to see you here Darius! Been awhile. Possession of the puck? What's that? One of our biggest, on going issues. But consider yourself lucky, as we played better in that BU game than we did in the BC game.

                  Ray, as to your points regarding the faceoff issues? I watched the Maine v UMassy game last night and paid attention to that. I'll watch how UNH handles it this weekend (not live; just can't bring myself to drive up there alone). But I am not sure UNH has plays for that? We win so few face offs anyway. When you have talented players, they just know what to do. You can't sit back on your hands when you don't; they can't learn it on their own. Surely...there's coaching for that stuff? Right?

                  What I saw last night was that UMaine played like a team; the goalie is very good as we expect. Their PP wasn't that great but they managed to stave off UMass' PP attempts. (Despite the reviews that UMass played well I wasn't impressed to be honest) In the past I would be psyched to take it to them (Maine) on the PP but not this year unless that unit gets it together, but we'll see. Just some ramblings. A split would make me very happy; heck even a tie would be an improvement. Go 'Cats!
                  Here we go 'Cats!!

                  Comment


                  • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

                    Oh joy we've descended into a discussion of hockey stats and so-called advanced analytics.

                    Things really have gotten rotten on this thread. It's what happens when you don't win for over a month.

                    For what it's worth, here are some random thoughts on some of the stuff discussed below:

                    * Plus/minus is far from perfect, but it's at least a pretty good (rough - not perfect) indicator of how players match up against like-kind players on opposing teams - the lines/pairings their coaches match them up against - and overall defensive accountability. I think, more than anything else, it exposes talented offensive players who coast on their defensive responsibilities. So I do pay attention to this one;

                    * Fenwick/Corsi (possession) - if you logically track the assumption that more talented players/teams spend more time with the puck, and more time with the puck should lead to more scoring chances for you (and less for your opponents), then this could be relevant. But we see some teams spending a lot of that time NOT using it to attack, and just to try to generate speed through the neutral zone, which is in my opinion overplayed (I remember when DRW started to lean on this in the Babcock era, and was never convinced it added anything). I'm sorry, I can't get excited by any of that stuff. Besides, as other posters have noted, the "eyeball test" usually detects this anyway.

                    * SOG's - you guys know where I stand on this. SOG's are of a wide variety of quality, and are very often skewed by game conditions, who's winning, who's losing, and who needs to take the game to the opposition, which may mean inflated SOG's for the trailing team, while the leading team is often protecting that lead to some degree, and while they may have less SOG's during that stage of a game, often they tend to be higher-quality shots, since the chances being taken by the trailing team often lead to odd-man rushes coming at the trailing team. There can be lots of fluff in SOG's too. So yeah, overall, SOG's can be pretty meaningless. Take that, 'Watcher!

                    * Faceoff wins - in 'Watcher's first post below, he has some excerpts in there about how this is (in the writer's opinion) an overrated stat, and I could not agree with that writer more. In short, he says too much attention is paid to the start of the play (faceoff) and too little to the extended free flowing play between the whistles. Again, bingo. More meaningless than SOG's, at least in my opinion.

                    ----------------------

                    As with my "other" sport, hockey is great because it is a game with continuous extended action, and a relative shortage of stoppages and whistles. Football has suffered for this in recent years. Frankly, I can watch baseball with more interest that football these days, the NFL has gotten so bad and so ponderous. Basketball moves, but there are too many stoppages, and too many subjective calls. Hockey (and soccer) works because stoppages are limited, calls are also limited, and the rules are pretty simple. When a sport (football, and especially the NFL) constantly changes its rules, that's not a good thing. And the sooner ALL of hockey eliminates the foolish offsides replays and just trusts its on-ice officials to get most of those right, the better. The only replays I ever want to see in hockey (or soccer) is whether the puck (ball) goes into the goal. Let the officials call goalie interference live, screw those replays too. The only other area where I'm in support of replay is for retroactive suspension of players for penalized dirty hits (or dives, too).

                    I know that last bit was off-topic, but we seem to be bored, so let's have at it ...
                    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                    Montreal Expos Forever ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post
                      Oh joy we've descended into a discussion of hockey stats and so-called advanced analytics.

                      Things really have gotten rotten on this thread. It's what happens when you don't win for over a month.

                      For what it's worth, here are some random thoughts on some of the stuff discussed below:

                      * Plus/minus is far from perfect, but it's at least a pretty good (rough - not perfect) indicator of how players match up against like-kind players on opposing teams - the lines/pairings their coaches match them up against - and overall defensive accountability. I think, more than anything else, it exposes talented offensive players who coast on their defensive responsibilities. So I do pay attention to this one;

                      * Fenwick/Corsi (possession) - if you logically track the assumption that more talented players/teams spend more time with the puck, and more time with the puck should lead to more scoring chances for you (and less for your opponents), then this could be relevant. But we see some teams spending a lot of that time NOT using it to attack, and just to try to generate speed through the neutral zone, which is in my opinion overplayed (I remember when DRW started to lean on this in the Babcock era, and was never convinced it added anything). I'm sorry, I can't get excited by any of that stuff. Besides, as other posters have noted, the "eyeball test" usually detects this anyway.

                      * SOG's - you guys know where I stand on this. SOG's are of a wide variety of quality, and are very often skewed by game conditions, who's winning, who's losing, and who needs to take the game to the opposition, which may mean inflated SOG's for the trailing team, while the leading team is often protecting that lead to some degree, and while they may have less SOG's during that stage of a game, often they tend to be higher-quality shots, since the chances being taken by the trailing team often lead to odd-man rushes coming at the trailing team. There can be lots of fluff in SOG's too. So yeah, overall, SOG's can be pretty meaningless. Take that, 'Watcher!

                      * Faceoff wins - in 'Watcher's first post below, he has some excerpts in there about how this is (in the writer's opinion) an overrated stat, and I could not agree with that writer more. In short, he says too much attention is paid to the start of the play (faceoff) and too little to the extended free flowing play between the whistles. Again, bingo. More meaningless than SOG's, at least in my opinion.

                      ----------------------

                      As with my "other" sport, hockey is great because it is a game with continuous extended action, and a relative shortage of stoppages and whistles. Football has suffered for this in recent years. Frankly, I can watch baseball with more interest that football these days, the NFL has gotten so bad and so ponderous. Basketball moves, but there are too many stoppages, and too many subjective calls. Hockey (and soccer) works because stoppages are limited, calls are also limited, and the rules are pretty simple. When a sport (football, and especially the NFL) constantly changes its rules, that's not a good thing. And the sooner ALL of hockey eliminates the foolish offsides replays and just trusts its on-ice officials to get most of those right, the better. The only replays I ever want to see in hockey (or soccer) is whether the puck (ball) goes into the goal. Let the officials call goalie interference live, screw those replays too. The only other area where I'm in support of replay is for retroactive suspension of players for penalized dirty hits (or dives, too).

                      I know that last bit was off-topic, but we seem to be bored, so let's have at it ...
                      The only stat that's relevant this weekend is the score! Tough hill to climb for this group upta Maine. I'm expecting a Maine sweep but am open to an upset possibility!
                      UNH Hockey: You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

                      Comment


                      • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

                        Originally posted by e.cat View Post
                        The only stat that's relevant this weekend is the score! Tough hill to climb for this group upta Maine. I'm expecting a Maine sweep but am open to an upset possibility!
                        That's the spirit e.cat! At least the feed is free and it's watchable. No idea what to expect but I have a pretty good idea if we keep playing the way we have against a team that is doing well for the time being. No better time than the present to surprise us 'Cats!!!
                        Here we go 'Cats!!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                          That's the spirit e.cat! At least the feed is free and it's watchable. No idea what to expect but I have a pretty good idea if we keep playing the way we have against a team that is doing well for the time being. No better time than the present to surprise us 'Cats!!!
                          I keep thinking that Salvaggio said not too long ago that this is the best team he's played on since coming to UNH. It's been all down hill ever since. Go figure!
                          UNH Hockey: You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

                          Comment


                          • Re: UNH Wildcats 2017-2018 Season - The Quest Continues

                            Originally posted by e.cat View Post
                            I keep thinking that Salvaggio said not too lonh ago that this is the best team he'splayed on since coming to UNH. It's been all down hill ever since. Go figure!
                            Those were his comments after the RPI game when he had 2 goals (if I have that right) and the 'Cats won 6-3. I raised my eyebrows on that one, considering who was on the team his Freshman year....you remember, that was the last year we went to the Gahden....? Beat PC in OT to get there?

                            You know what bothers me about this team right now? Their lack of playing like they have nothing to lose. Every game they go in from here on out they need to play that way. Teams that do that at least have a shot at making something happen. I'm not sure this team has that in them and for me at least, THAT is the most disappointing thing at this stage of the game. That 14/15 team played with grit and hustle most of the time. We took care of teams like UConn. Heck, those were the days!
                            Here we go 'Cats!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                              Those were his comments after the RPI game when he had 2 goals (if I have that right) and the 'Cats won 6-3. I raised my eyebrows on that one, considering who was on the team his Freshman year....you remember, that was the last year we went to the Gahden....? Beat PC in OT to get there?

                              You know what bothers me about this team right now? Their lack of playing like they have nothing to lose. Every game they go in from here on out they need to play that way. Teams that do that at least have a shot at making something happen. I'm not sure this team has that in them and for me at least, THAT is the most disappointing thing at this stage of the game. That 14/15 team played with grit and hustle most of the time. We took care of teams like UConn. Heck, those were the days!
                              Yeah. I was at that PC game. Didn't Goumas have the goal to win it? Those were the days alright! And we thought we had it bad then.....
                              UNH Hockey: You can check out any time you like but you can never leave!

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by e.cat View Post
                                I keep thinking that Salvaggio said not too long ago that this is the best team he's played on since coming to UNH. It's been all down hill ever since. Go figure!
                                Yup, Salvaggio, much better team this year, now that the puck hogs TyK and Cleland are gone.

                                And, who has the team's worst +/-?
                                Last edited by Snively65; 01-17-2018, 01:05 PM.

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