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Thread: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

  1. #141
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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by OhioMule View Post
    Colby hockey has suffered since Jim Tortorella's sudden departure some seven years ago. Coach MacDonald has been methodically rebuilding. He brings a welcome stability to the job. We are lucky to have him. Last year his recruiting paid off and, even though the team graduated a bunch of good seniors, this year is looking good so far. This week, the Mules broke into the top 15 and had the NESCAC Player of the Week for the second week in a row.

    Bowdoin and Colby are inextricably linked in many ways, but most of all in hockey. It's great to have a worthy rival. Down years come and go, but we have a lot of great games in this rivalry to look forward to.
    100% in agreement. Coach MacDonald has been doing an excellent job at Colby.

    The Bowdoin program has been in a steep decline: Two losing seasons in a row, eighth-place finish last year, and ninth (and out of the playoffs for the first time in nineteen seasons) this year. It no longer attracts the talent needed to compete in NESCAC let alone nationally. This is a program that started the decade with a beautiful new rink, three NESCAC titles, four trips to the NCAA tournament, and several players selected as All-Americans. Not long ago it used to play exciting, skilled, offensive hockey.

    From recent conversations at the Watson rink, it's clear that the players, parents, and fans are quite unhappy but the athletic administration doesn't seem to care.

  2. #142
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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Totally remarkable that the two teams that didn't make the playoffs in the NESCAC are the two teams with the longest history of success in hockey. The world is changing.
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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Totally remarkable that the two teams that didn't make the playoffs in the NESCAC are the two teams with the longest history of success in hockey. The world is changing.
    Indeed the world of NESCAC hockey has changed in a few short years. The fact that the powers that be in Middlebury have not moved to replace Sinclair as head coach indicates to me they have lost all interest in men's hockey in Pantherland.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Totally remarkable that the two teams that didn't make the playoffs in the NESCAC are the two teams with the longest history of success in hockey. The world is changing.
    Meanwhile, Tortorella had a pretty good season in his first as head coach of St. Anselm (16-9-1). Somebody ought to be looking at him. http://www.uscho.com/stats/coach/mid,77/jim-tortorella/
    Last edited by OhioMule; 02-27-2018 at 02:09 PM.
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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by NUProf View Post
    Totally remarkable that the two teams that didn't make the playoffs in the NESCAC are the two teams with the longest history of success in hockey. The world is changing.
    Their respective administrations are laser focused on pushing academic admissions standards through the roof and increasing diversity. They likely are glad their high-powered successful hockey coaches are gone. Now they have leverage, and are applying it.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Meehan Popcorn Guy View Post
    Their respective administrations are laser focused on pushing academic admissions standards through the roof and increasing diversity. They likely are glad their high-powered successful hockey coaches are gone. Now they have leverage, and are applying it.
    But are the Bowdoin and Middlebury administrations actually different in approach on those two issues (admissions standards and diversity) from, say, Amherst, Williams, or Wesleyan.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    The problem at Middlebury College runs far deeper than admissions policy. The movement against athletics, or “athletic privilege,” defined by those who prefer athletic programing not exist at all, came to a head at Middlebury in 2015. The anti-athletic student and administrative factions fail to recognize the importance of sport and athletics in society and in our daily lives.
    The United Nations has recognized the importance of sport. Ironically, about the same time that Middlebury was demeaning its student athletes in the article published and later becoming fodder for the Middlebury anti-sport movement, “It’s Actually Just a Game,” the United Nations was recognizing sport as so much more! On the second annual International Day of Sport for Development and Peace, April 15th, 2015, the United Nations wrote:
    “Sport has the power to help develop the potential of individuals, communities and nations,” … “On this International Day, let us pledge to strengthen the role that sport plays in communities around the world. We need to have everyone on the team.”
    Mr. Ban described the role sport plays in encouraging personal growth, eliminating gender barriers and building bridges across lines that might otherwise divide. He added that sport helps to create cultures where fundamental values such as equality, the acceptance of rules, mutual respect and fairness are appreciated.
    “It helps the more vulnerable groups in society, especially young people and persons with disabilities, to enjoy their human rights, including safe opportunities to engage in physical education programmes and sporting activities,” he said. “This contributes to their inclusion in society and increases their motivation to attend school.”
    The problem at Middlebury runs far deeper than Admissions, or coaching, or recruitment. Until Middlebury supports and fosters a culture that recognizes the life long commitment that athletes, even at the Div III level, make to be the best they can be at their sport, athletics at Middlebury will suffer. As long as student athletes cannot share the pride of any success with the college, athletic programs will suffer.
    Middlebury, develop the most culturally diverse and successful DIII athletic program in the country and be proud of it. Promote women’s sport and do it better than any other DIII program in the country. Be proud of all of your athletes and their accomplishments. Do all you can to help them be successful. Do this or cancel all of the programs entirely and allow the student athletes to study and compete at a college that is proud of them and their accomplishments.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    So I know the NESCAC is composed of some of the highest ranked and most prestigious liberal arts schools in the country, but it also seems to be the spearhead of everything wrong in higher education today. From Middlebury students assaulting speakers to Williams cancelling speeches at an ironically named "Uncomfortable Learning" lecture series, to now the "anti-athletics" movement. How do you older alums feel about this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NU Pastime View Post
    So I know the NESCAC is composed of some of the highest ranked and most prestigious liberal arts schools in the country, but it also seems to be the spearhead of everything wrong in higher education today. From Middlebury students assaulting speakers to Williams cancelling speeches at an ironically named "Uncomfortable Learning" lecture series, to now the "anti-athletics" movement. How do you older alums feel about this?
    Jealousy, selfishness, and envy is guised as an attempt to stop privilege. Rich, all of the words the anti-athletes want us to use so they can say "look how special they think they are." Well athletes are special. They win Olympic Medals, they instill pride in country and community. They train endless hours to be their best. But, no, this is Division III. No Olympic medals here. Nobody cares. The athletes care. The community cares. They win Nescac and National Championships. They bring pride to their school. They include many of the best and the brightest that will not only cure their medical patients but will have the skills and bedside manner to relate to them.

    The debate is not who s right. Rather there is a decision. Athletics or not. If not, stop. Don't mislead athletes to attend a school claiming to be committed to its programs. Let them make a better decision. If yes, athletics needs full support not just financially but to administer the programs successfully.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Midfan View Post
    The problem at Middlebury College runs far deeper than admissions policy. The movement against athletics, or “athletic privilege,” defined by those who prefer athletic programing not exist at all, came to a head at Middlebury in 2015. The anti-athletic student and administrative factions fail to recognize the importance of sport and athletics in society and in our daily lives.
    . . .
    Agree that this trend exists at Middlebury and many other NESCACs but do not see it as affecting the overall quality of Middlebury's athletic program. Most of Middlebury's other athletic programs continue to perform at a high level. The Middlebury football, for example, with its much greater commitment of admissions slots, continues to perform at a very high level, tying for second place in the league this past fall with a fine 7-2 record.. This year's men's basketball team tied for first place in the NESCAC. Last year's baseball team won its division in the NESCAC. And so on. It is only Middlebury's men's hockey team that has managed to land in last place in the NESCAC so the explanation for the demise of the hockey program likely resides with the hockey program and not with the overall treatment of athletics at Middlebury.
    Last edited by d3follower; 03-01-2018 at 02:18 AM.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by d3follower View Post
    Agree that this trend exists at Middlebury and many other NESCACs but do not see it as affecting the overall quality of Middlebury's athletic program. Most of Middlebury's other athletic programs continue to perform at a high level. The Middlebury football, for example, with its much greater commitment of admissions slots, continues to perform at a very high level, tying for second place in the league this past fall with a fine 7-2 record.. This year's men's basketball team tied for first place in the NESCAC. Last year's baseball team won its division in the NESCAC. And so on. It is only Middlebury's men's hockey team that has managed to land in last place in the NESCAC so the explanation for the demise of the hockey program likely resides with the hockey program and not with the overall treatment of athletics at Middlebury.
    I agree partly. So long as a program remains strong it will attract the best athletes and look after itself. The women's hockey program being a perfect example. As soon as a program falters, however, and needs some support from administration and some effort to re-establish strength and attract athletes, without that support the program will fall just as the men's hockey program has. Without the support, its a matter of time.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by d3follower View Post
    Agree that this trend exists at Middlebury and many other NESCACs but do not see it as affecting the overall quality of Middlebury's athletic program. Most of Middlebury's other athletic programs continue to perform at a high level.
    Two thoughts: 1. The overall athletic performance at Middlebury has tailed off. If we look back to all the negative reports and publications that emerged around 2005 and highlighted athletics at the NESCACs, you will see a definite decline. Between 1995-2005 Middlebury secured 24 NCAA Championships. In the following decade, 2006-2015, the Panthers only secured 8 NCAA titles. The decline seems to correspond to all the bruhaha surrounding athletics in NESCAC.
    2. It also may not be significant to compare men's ice hockey with any other collegiate sport in terms of team performance. Ice hockey draws a percentage of talent from junior leagues which obviously involves players with significantly more experience (playing time) as well as physical maturity (a function of age). No other program has that talent pool, although we are beginning to see signs of a similar dynamics in women's ice hockey. Programs that draw primarily from 1-year prep or PG programs have a built-in skill gap (on average).

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mucker44 View Post
    Two thoughts: 1. The overall athletic performance at Middlebury has tailed off. If we look back to all the negative reports and publications that emerged around 2005 and highlighted athletics at the NESCACs, you will see a definite decline. Between 1995-2005 Middlebury secured 24 NCAA Championships. In the following decade, 2006-2015, the Panthers only secured 8 NCAA titles. The decline seems to correspond to all the bruhaha surrounding athletics in NESCAC.
    2. It also may not be significant to compare men's ice hockey with any other collegiate sport in terms of team performance. Ice hockey draws a percentage of talent from junior leagues which obviously involves players with significantly more experience (playing time) as well as physical maturity (a function of age). No other program has that talent pool, although we are beginning to see signs of a similar dynamics in women's ice hockey. Programs that draw primarily from 1-year prep or PG programs have a built-in skill gap (on average).
    My sense is that Middlebury is less good in sports like lacrosse and soccer than it was in the heyday period that you cite (1995-2005) but still in contention most years for a high finish in the NESCAC. I haven't researched the numbers but recall Middlebury winning NCAA championships in lacrosses before lowering its profile. (edit: just did some post-post research on lax-3 national championships (2000-03 & 3 runner-ups (1999, 2003, 2005)-nothing after 2005 . . ). It was likely a victim of that report that condemned "helmet" sports in the NESCAC. But still Middlebury's lacrosse program did not become a shell of itself as did the hockey program.

    My sense is that the core of the hockey problem is a reluctance to recruit and admit junior hockey products. In trend terms, Bowdoin seems to have headed in the same direction . . You see an occasional player on the Middlebury and Bowdoin rosters who has a strong junior hockey background but mostly you see players who come straight from prep hockey to college, resulting in younger and less experienced and developed players at both schools.. Their teams are younger and less experienced than the teams of league rivals like Trinity, Amherst, Hamilton, and Conn College, which seem to have no issue with having large numbers of junior hockey products on their rosters . . So I am guessing an institutional decision has been made at both schools to limit access to junior hockey products, placing both schools at a competitive disadvantage . .
    Last edited by d3follower; 03-01-2018 at 12:21 PM.

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Quote Originally Posted by d3follower View Post
    My sense is that Middlebury is less good in sports like lacrosse and soccer than it was in the heyday period that you cite (1995-2005) but still in contention most years for a high finish in the NESCAC. I haven't researched the numbers but recall Middlebury winning NCAA championships in lacrosses before lowering its profile. (edit: just did some post-post research on lax-3 national championships (2000-03 & 3 runner-ups (1999, 2003, 2005)-nothing after 2005 . . ). It was likely a victim of that report that condemned "helmet" sports in the NESCAC. But still Middlebury's lacrosse program did not become a shell of itself as did the hockey program.

    My sense is that the core of the hockey problem is a reluctance to recruit and admit junior hockey products. In trend terms, Bowdoin seems to have headed in the same direction . . You see an occasional player on the Middlebury and Bowdoin rosters who has a strong junior hockey background but mostly you see players who come straight from prep hockey to college, resulting in younger and less experienced and developed players at both schools.. Their teams are younger and less experienced than the teams of league rivals like Trinity, Amherst, Hamilton, and Conn College, which seem to have no issue with having large numbers of junior hockey products on their rosters . . So I am guessing an institutional decision has been made at both schools to limit access to junior hockey products, placing both schools at a competitive disadvantage . .
    I believe you are correct, however, the change seems more recent. It seems there are currently 5 past juniors on the team, all solid, 1 sophomore, 1 junior, 3 seniors. No new freshman recruits. Whether this is an administration or a coaching decision, who knows?

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    However, for giggles I just reviewed all of the Middlebury rosters from 99/2000 to present and it seems, since then, Midd has had very few X Juniors on the team.

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    It wasn’t that long ago, 2014 or 2015? Maybe that Middlebury won the Learfield Sports Director’s Cup, which rewards excellence across the board in all sports.

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    Re: Middlebury slide continues ...

    Just reading this thread brought this to mind: Remember about 11 years ago when Middlebury's former president wanted to create a Division IV?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/13/sp...ts/13ncaa.html

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    Meanwhile, weather permitting, there actually is a NESCAC MIH Final Four scheduled in Hartford this weekend. Here's an interesting fact... Trinity's three league losses were at the hands of the other three teams left in the tournament.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Trefzger View Post
    Just reading this thread brought this to mind: Remember about 11 years ago when Middlebury's former president wanted to create a Division IV?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/13/sp...ts/13ncaa.html
    After reading the article, I actually didn't find the concept as stupid as I thought I was. There is a clear difference between the Wisconsin state schools that have been piling up national championships in the flagship sports and the traditional, small, liberal arts schools of Division III.

    But otherwise, the concept isn't thought through at all (I know this is over 10 years old). I don't really get the point of it either. Playing against like-minded schools is what conferences are for (NESCAC is the besr example of this, Norwich's new football conference is another great example). The chance to win a championship over a Stevens Point is what makes a championship "national".

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    Re: Isn't anyone going to start a NESCAC 2017-2018 thread?

    McA also wanted the D3 schools to be exclusively D3. 4 out of the 5 D3 playing up to D1 hockey at the time were vehemently opposed.

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