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  • #16
    Re: Miller article

    Originally posted by Sean Pickett View Post
    Thanks for posting the link. I found the reporting on the financial information to be misleading. While true that the women's program received less than teh men's program, it was not 50% on average. UMD's financials for 2010-16 show that on average the women's expenses averaged 76% of the men's expenses, with Athletic Aid averaging 102% of the men's, the head coaches total compensation averaging 80%, assistant's averaging 64%, and all coaches compensation averaging 73%. The yearly expenses fluctuated from a high of 90% of the men's in 2010 to a low of 65% in 2016.

    Furthermore, stating that the women's program's expenses were less than the men's program is true at 33 of the 26 schools that sponsor both men's and women's hockey. Of those 36 programs just three averaged higher expenses than their men's programs and UMD had the ninth highest percentage. Dollar-wise, UMD's average expenses from 2010-16 were $1.58 million, ninth highest of all 39 DI women's programs.

    If anyone is interested they can take a look at my spreadsheet which has the financial information from 2010-16 and comparisons between men's and women's programs.

    Sean
    Can we please not let facts get in the way of emotions on this topic?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by shelfit View Post
      Who wouldn't enjoy a month in Europe with all your expenses paid for by your employer?!

      Your last paragraph sums the whole thing up in a nutshell.
      Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër ?

      See the løveli lakes

      The wøndërful telephøne system

      And mäni interesting furry animals

      ---------------

      And people wonder why she was sacked?
      CCT '77 & '78
      4 kids
      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
      - Benjamin Franklin

      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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      • #18
        Re: Miller article

        Thanks for posting.

        She complained to higher-uppers about the way she was being treated and nothing was being done about previous complaints. Then they actually decide to finally investigate, and she complains that she didn't want an investigation? Come on. Why didn't she file a lawsuit during her employment over these allegations? Because she was willing to deal with it for $215,000 a year.

        They did not fire her, they didn't renew the contract. Whatever the reasoning, flawed or not, they have the right not to renew the deal. To me she is a dead duck based on that alone.

        If she was that unhappy with the way she was being dealt with, she could have took another job at another school, but I doubt she would have got the big bucks she had locked up @ UMD.
        Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
        "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
        Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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        • #19
          Re: Miller article

          Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
          Thanks for posting.

          She complained to higher-uppers about the way she was being treated and nothing was being done about previous complaints. Then they actually decide to finally investigate, and she complains that she didn't want an investigation? Come on. Why didn't she file a lawsuit during her employment over these allegations? Because she was willing to deal with it for $215,000 a year.

          They did not fire her, they didn't renew the contract. Whatever the reasoning, flawed or not, they have the right not to renew the deal. To me she is a dead duck based on that alone.

          If she was that unhappy with the way she was being dealt with, she could have took another job at another school, but I doubt she would have got the big bucks she had locked up @ UMD.
          I do agree that the "I complained but didn't want an investigation" thing doesn't hang together - what else was the school supposed to do in the face of such a complaint? That being said, regardless of what you think of Miller, the whole case (three coaches, not just her) does smack of discriminatory practices by UMD - one is an outlier, two's interesting, three's a trend...

          I wonder if UMD can bring to bear in this case the fact that no other school was interested in hiring her after her contract ended. She is arguing that she was still at the top (or near the top) of what had been a national championship winning game and now NO D1 school is interested in her when she is available. Certainly that calls into question whether she was still a successful coach....

          Comment


          • #20
            Re: Miller article

            Originally posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
            I do agree that the "I complained but didn't want an investigation" thing doesn't hang together - what else was the school supposed to do in the face of such a complaint? That being said, regardless of what you think of Miller, the whole case (three coaches, not just her) does smack of discriminatory practices by UMD - one is an outlier, two's interesting, three's a trend...

            I wonder if UMD can bring to bear in this case the fact that no other school was interested in hiring her after her contract ended. She is arguing that she was still at the top (or near the top) of what had been a national championship winning game and now NO D1 school is interested in her when she is available. Certainly that calls into question whether she was still a successful coach....
            Although it may appear as "a trend", I am not convinced. Knowing some people who worked alongside Miller she was a royal pain in the A** for years. Very difficult to work with. Banford, the softball coach was not retained on the hockey contract as none of Miller's staff were. In fact, they wanted her back as the softball coach but she declined. Hostile towards her? Maybe? Although people I have spoke with all liked her as a coach and person. The Basketball coach jumped on at the 11th hour. The truth here is that her team hated playing for her and several had threatened to leave the school. Complaints included that she was rarely at practice or frequently late. She had zero relationships with her players.

            Comment


            • #21
              Re: Miller article

              Originally posted by joecct View Post
              Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër ?

              See the løveli lakes

              The wøndërful telephøne system

              And mäni interesting furry animals

              ---------------

              And people wonder why she was sacked?
              By the way................ This was a funny post

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: Miller article

                Originally posted by joecct View Post
                Wi nøt trei a høliday in Sweden this yër ?

                See the løveli lakes

                The wøndërful telephøne system

                And mäni interesting furry animals

                ---------------

                And people wonder why she was sacked?
                Originally posted by 2Bladedskates View Post
                By the way................ This was a funny post
                Yes, it was. Now I have to watch the movie again.

                Sean
                Women's Hockey East Champions 2015, 2014, 2013, 2012, 2010
                Men's NCAA Champions 2009, 1995, 1978, 1972, 1971

                BU Hockey Games
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                I need a kidney; looking for a donor

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                • #23
                  Re: Miller article

                  Originally posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
                  That being said, regardless of what you think of Miller, the whole case (three coaches, not just her) does smack of discriminatory practices by UMD - one is an outlier, two's interesting, three's a trend...
                  piling on,

                  that's what they are counting on, simple minds drawing the wrong conclusion
                  facts are too difficult for many people to comprehend, they cannot connect the dots
                  keep it simple so simple minds can understand and arrive at their own delusion

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: Miller article

                    What does it mean to have a contract, if one side or the other can't walk away after fulfilling the terms? Miller wasn't fired, just non-renewed. Does this legal interpretation mean I have to fork over for another 10 car washes when my original deal is done?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: Miller article

                      Originally posted by Leather helmet View Post
                      What does it mean to have a contract, if one side or the other can't walk away after fulfilling the terms? Miller wasn't fired, just non-renewed. Does this legal interpretation mean I have to fork over for another 10 car washes when my original deal is done?
                      I believe with teachers there are times when non-renewal is interpreted as firing for legal purposes such as this. But a D1 coaching position is not similar. One would like to think that the school has an option to not renew a coaches contract.

                      It's also pretty common knowledge that, as 2Blades put it, "royal pains in the A**es for years" get on thin ice when they stop winning championships. I think Berlo's mistake was he didn't want to call her "A R P I T A" publicly and assumed he was free to not renew her contract and just say it was for budgetary reasons.

                      I think UMD is more vulnerable on hostile work environment grounds than for the non-renewal. But it also should be acknowledged that it is easier to call someone a "dyke" when the target themselves are a walking hostile work environment, however inappropriate the term may be.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: Miller article

                        Originally posted by KTDC View Post
                        I think Berlo's mistake was he didn't want to call her "A R P I T A" publicly
                        I think Berlo's (and Black's) mistake was that he/they lied.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
                          I think Berlo's (and Black's) mistake was that he/they lied.
                          They (Berlo & Black) should have just gone with the classic and very vague, "We've decided to go in a different direction." This situation doesn't make either of them look too bright at all. Dunce caps for them both!
                          Last edited by shelfit; 11-14-2017, 06:19 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: Miller article

                            Originally posted by HockeyEast33 View Post
                            I do agree that the "I complained but didn't want an investigation" thing doesn't hang together - what else was the school supposed to do in the face of such a complaint?
                            There is a logical explanation for this, though I have no idea whether or not this was actually Miller's thinking. Given that the school had previously refused to investigate her complaints and otherwise seemed indifferent to whether there was a hostile environment, it's possible that Miller didn't trust that they were actually conducting a serious investigation tasked with finding the truth and putting an end to any impropriety that they found, but rather that the administration was using the opening of a sham investigation as a way of letting alleged perpetrators that Miller was complaining about them. This is reinforced by Miller's claim that she didn't want an investigation and that the administration didn't inform her that they were opening one, which, if true, would be an odd way to run one.

                            This is pretty much the problem with all of the analysis on this forum. It proceeds from the assumption that Miller is acting in bad faith, and then uses the very incomplete information contained in the linked article to justify that assumption. None of us really has any idea what happened.

                            It's also worth noting that the judge has made it pretty clear that he's going to disregard some of the allegations not because he thinks they don't have merit, but simply because they would need to be filed in state court rather than federal.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: Miller article

                              As for the fact that Miller's contract wasn't renewed rather than her being fired, that changes things but doesn't eliminate it as a question. She had the job, and she clearly wanted to keep the job, so at a minimum, she needed to be treated like an applicant for the job. UMD's actions make it clear that she wasn't even considered for renewal, and so their reasons are relevant. This is where their bogus initial explanation doesn't do them any favors; it weakens their credibility when they are asked now why they rejected her.

                              It's easy for us to sit her and say that they didn't want her back because she was abrasive and difficult to deal with. It may not be so easy for UMD to say that in court and under oath. I haven't been following this story closely enough to know whether Miller's performance evaluations have been brought up, but if they show a history of her supervisors saying that she was a good employee, they don't have a lot of room to come back now and claim that it was her personality that led them to let her go. So, they may not have a good story to tell to refute Miller's claims of discrimination.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: Miller article

                                Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
                                Thanks for posting.


                                They did not fire her, they didn't renew the contract. Whatever the reasoning, flawed or not, they have the right not to renew the deal. To me she is a dead duck based on that alone.
                                Don't bet on this. Penn State just lost a lawsuit to Mike McQueary. He was also not fired, just not given a new contract by a new head coach. He sued under Whistleblower statutes and won a multi-million dollar award. Again, he wasn't fired, just wasn't given a new contract by Bill O'Brien when he became head coach. Who knows what judges and the US courts will decide on anything anymore...
                                Steve
                                Penn State Class of '95
                                Plattsburgh State Class of '99

                                If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?

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