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  • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Originally posted by geezer View Post
    It’s a different topic. TX pays no state tax, so they’re paying a much larger share of federal taxes than Californians who appear to be ducking out of about 13%.
    OK, first off, that's the highest marginal rate, so it's hard to infer from that what peoples' effective rates are. Second, as that's an itemized deduction, not everyone is claiming it, so for a large portion of the population it is likely moot. Third, to actual know who is "ducking out" we would need to see the effective federal rate of people in both states rather than make some poorly formed assumptions based on one random data point that may not be that relevant.

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    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
      I don't claim to be a tax expert or economist, but a couple of comments.

      First, money "tied up in capital gains" isn't exactly doing nothing, as you claim. If it does nothing, it's not going to produce a capital gain. It's money that is invested in bonds or stocks or real estate or whatever that is (hopefully?) increasing in value so that when I sell it I will sell it at a "gain" which will then be taxed.

      Smarter people than me will tell me where I'm wrong, but I think there are a number of justifications for a lower capital gains rate. First, a higher capital gains tax discourages savings in the form of investments. Second, a higher capital gains rate negatively affects corporations, who are then encouraged to use debt for financing, as opposed to equity, which can put them into a dicey situation as the economy changes.

      Finally, I don't know of any evidence to suggest that changing the capital gains rate actually has an effect on income inequality in the country. Income inequality needs to be addressed, but that's simply done by raising the income tax rate on higher income earners. Doing it with the capital gains rate simply doesn't work. The wealthy just change the way they do business.
      As I said, there are people on this board who will tell you that someone won't make an investment that will give him 20% returns if he has to pay a third of the profits in taxes. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with exhibit A.
      What kind of cheese are you planning to put on top?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by French Rage View Post
        OK, first off, that's the highest marginal rate, so it's hard to infer from that what peoples' effective rates are. Second, as that's an itemized deduction, not everyone is claiming it, so for a large portion of the population it is likely moot. Third, to actual know who is "ducking out" we would need to see the effective federal rate of people in both states rather than make some poorly formed assumptions based on one random data point that may not be that relevant.
        Thanks - that almost answers my question, even though it’s uncomfortably close to, “it’s too complex to know.” Perhaps it all washes out.
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        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

          Originally posted by geezer View Post
          If you click the link, places like Maine, CA, MN, and Iowa are getting paid by the rest of us just because their states are screwed up.
          Huh? The link doesn't shot that...

          Originally posted by rufus View Post
          As I said, there are people on this board who will tell you that someone won't make an investment that will give him 20% returns if he has to pay a third of the profits in taxes. Ladies and gentlemen, I present you with exhibit A.
          LMAO

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
            BS. You seen the states that get the most federal money? None of them are blue.
            I think you might be confusing “blue states” with “Democrat voting states”? In this chart, it just stands for “insanely high state taxes.”
            Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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            • Originally posted by trixR4kids View Post
              Huh? The link doesn't shot that...

              LMAO
              Not directly, but it does by inference if people are writing off their state taxes from Uncle Sam’s bill.
              Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
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              Comment


              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                I don't claim to be a tax expert or economist, but a couple of comments.

                First, money "tied up in capital gains" isn't exactly doing nothing, as you claim. If it does nothing, it's not going to produce a capital gain. It's money that is invested in bonds or stocks or real estate or whatever that is (hopefully?) increasing in value so that when I sell it I will sell it at a "gain" which will then be taxed.

                Smarter people than me will tell me where I'm wrong, but I think there are a number of justifications for a lower capital gains rate. First, a higher capital gains tax discourages savings in the form of investments. Second, a higher capital gains rate negatively affects corporations, who are then encouraged to use debt for financing, as opposed to equity, which can put them into a dicey situation as the economy changes.

                Finally, I don't know of any evidence to suggest that changing the capital gains rate actually has an effect on income inequality in the country. Income inequality needs to be addressed, but that's simply done by raising the income tax rate on higher income earners. Doing it with the capital gains rate simply doesn't work. The wealthy just change the way they do business.
                Yes, it does nothing. If I have $1M in some investment, it's just there. It's not spent on someone's wage, it's not paid to anyone to make something, it just sits there. And if it loses value, I even get to take a tax deduction. The gain is because someone else values the thing more than I do and is willing to pay more for it. That does not actually mean it's better, just that it's more valuable to someone else.

                The second point it total BS. The group that really gains from capitol gains taxes don't need any more incentive to save more money. They already are for two reason 1) more power, and 2) it does not cost nearly what they earn relative to less income groups. So it's super easy to save money when you are earning in excess of $1M a year- again, the largest group, BY FAR, that earn capitol gains. And the "kind of investment" idea is crap, too- well over 90% of stock sales are trades, not direct investments in a company. When you trade stocks, companies don't see a penny of that exchange, when someone pays you more money for the stock than you paid for it, companies don't see a penny of that. If you want to encourage investments directly into companies- I'm fine with that. But handing that same incentive to people who trade stuff is total BS.

                We really don't need to raise the tax rates of the top earners. Again, go look at IRS.GOV to see the data. This is UNEARNED income. Why in the world does UNEARNED income get a tax advantage? You didn't actually work for it, you didn't earn it, you should not pay a lower tax rate on that income than any other income.

                And don't give me the BS argument that the wealthy will just find another way- as if that's a reason to not do some action. Some might, sure. But the gross majority will not. Nor will they take their money so some random tiny island that has no capitol gains taxes- because all of the real investment opportunities are in countries that you have to pay taxes.

                If you don't think that it has an impact on income inequality, do the math. It's really easy. And go look at the data on IRS.GOV. And see all of the income that they hyper rich lock up off of the real economy, just earning income with light tax rates. This whole policy is insane. We don't need MORE mechanisms for the rich to get richer. They have plenty of them already. We need them to spend their money so that the rest of the economy can actually work. And if they don't want to- tax them, and pay people to do stuff.

                Saving money is good if you eventually plan on spending it. Otherwise, it's just money taken out of the economy, which takes money away from hard working people. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand our consumer based economy.

                Comment


                • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                  Originally posted by geezer View Post
                  Not directly, but it does by inference if people are writing off their state taxes from Uncle Sam’s bill.
                  Ok fair enough, I admit this isn't something I'm super knowledgeable about (despite living in said state :whoops: ).

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                    Yes, it does nothing. If I have $1M in some investment, it's just there. It's not spent on someone's wage, it's not paid to anyone to make something, it just sits there. And if it loses value, I even get to take a tax deduction. The gain is because someone else values the thing more than I do and is willing to pay more for it. That does not actually mean it's better, just that it's more valuable to someone else.

                    The second point it total BS. The group that really gains from capitol gains taxes don't need any more incentive to save more money. They already are for two reason 1) more power, and 2) it does not cost nearly what they earn relative to less income groups. So it's super easy to save money when you are earning in excess of $1M a year- again, the largest group, BY FAR, that earn capitol gains. And the "kind of investment" idea is crap, too- well over 90% of stock sales are trades, not direct investments in a company. When you trade stocks, companies don't see a penny of that exchange, when someone pays you more money for the stock than you paid for it, companies don't see a penny of that. If you want to encourage investments directly into companies- I'm fine with that. But handing that same incentive to people who trade stuff is total BS.

                    We really don't need to raise the tax rates of the top earners. Again, go look at IRS.GOV to see the data. This is UNEARNED income. Why in the world does UNEARNED income get a tax advantage? You didn't actually work for it, you didn't earn it, you should not pay a lower tax rate on that income than any other income.

                    And don't give me the BS argument that the wealthy will just find another way- as if that's a reason to not do some action. Some might, sure. But the gross majority will not. Nor will they take their money so some random tiny island that has no capitol gains taxes- because all of the real investment opportunities are in countries that you have to pay taxes.

                    If you don't think that it has an impact on income inequality, do the math. It's really easy. And go look at the data on IRS.GOV. And see all of the income that they hyper rich lock up off of the real economy, just earning income with light tax rates. This whole policy is insane. We don't need MORE mechanisms for the rich to get richer. They have plenty of them already. We need them to spend their money so that the rest of the economy can actually work. And if they don't want to- tax them, and pay people to do stuff.

                    Saving money is good if you eventually plan on spending it. Otherwise, it's just money taken out of the economy, which takes money away from hard working people. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand our consumer based economy.
                    Not bad... and you did say “hard working people”, but I’ve got to deduct a point for failing to say “folks.”
                    Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
                    USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

                    Comment


                    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                      Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                      Saving money is good if you eventually plan on spending it. Otherwise, it's just money taken out of the economy, which takes money away from hard working people. If you don't understand that, then you don't understand our consumer based economy.
                      It's amazing how many people don't understand the most basic aspects of our economy ie GDP and what the vast majority of it is driven by (it's consumer spending and last I checked it was something like 3.5x as much as investments).

                      Comment


                      • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                        Originally posted by alfablue View Post

                        The second point it total BS. The group that really gains from capitol gains taxes don't need......
                        who the heII is taxing the building where legislators blow hot air?!?!!? and how's it being gained upon!?!?
                        a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                        Comment


                        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                          Why hasn't Tiny Hands Trump tweeted about this attempted terrorist attack on US soil?

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                          • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                            Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
                            Why hasn't Tiny Hands Trump tweeted about this attempted terrorist attack on US soil?
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                            • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                              Originally posted by geezer View Post
                              It’s a different topic. TX pays no state tax, so they’re paying a much larger share of federal taxes than Californians who appear to be ducking out of about 13%.
                              I'm guessing there would be some degree of an inverse relationship between state income tax rate and the need for various forms of federal assistance. If that is indeed the case, then it quite reasonable for the state income taxes to be deductible.

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                              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                                How to fight the f-ckstain, from last January.
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