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  • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
    Questions about the graph:

    1) Why does it combine the quintiles for 21-80?
    2) What's the difference between 81st-99th percentiles and "lowest quintile"? The difference is the $0 earners, so what's the point of mentioning them?
    3) Why did they omit 2-20?

    I want to see it all, not selective listings. That sets my BS Detector to Danger levels.
    Doesn't mine. You could have just the bottome 99% and the top 1% in that graph. The three lines at the bottom all look the same.
    **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

    Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
    Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

      Originally posted by mookie1995 View Post
      This only impacts the super rich though. Which is good, right?
      That's who would impact the most, with the most benefit.

      Comment


      • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

        Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
        Questions about the graph:

        1) Why does it combine the quintiles for 21-80?
        2) What's the difference between 81st-99th percentiles and "lowest quintile"? The difference is the $0 earners, so what's the point of mentioning them?
        3) Why did they omit 2-20?

        I want to see it all, not selective listings. That sets my BS Detector to Danger levels.
        All valid criticisms.

        A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

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        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
          Balance would be fine. Just stop pretending the 12%+ in payroll taxes doesn't exist. when this conversation comes up. I believe the Medicare tax is on all income, but is that taking out on Capital Gains? Doubt it.
          Medicare tax portion is on all income. And then there is a surcharge on all income over $200,000, but the employer does not pay the surcharge, just the employer portion of the Medicare tax.

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          • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            All valid criticisms.

            A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

            That to me doesn't look very different than the other graph.
            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

            Comment


            • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

              I am all for this tax reform. Everyone knows 401Ks are just a Leftist Antifa plot to funnel money to George Soros
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              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                That to me doesn't look very different than the other graph.
                It's the same findings (same CBO data) however the first graph was not simple apples to apples. St. Clown expressed concern that the data was being cherry-picked to build a narrative, and I think we should always be mindful of this. The second graph removes the concern using a much simpler breakdown with no overlaps, no gaps, but still preserves the telescoping of the data at the high end to demonstrate that the problem isn't the top quintile per se, it's attenuation as you go higher. If we in turn broke down the top 1% I'd expect to see the same pattern, and so on. The Fiscal Rip Off is fractal-like. The rich rip us off; the super-rich rip off everyone including the merely rich; the super-duper rich rip off everyone including the merely super-rich, and so on up to the top handful of in the US who are f-cking us all.

                As opposed to the economic system of the US during its heydey in the 40s through 70s when inequality was actively eroded by reditrisbution and the middle class grown and EVERYONE flourished, since Reagan's cuts we have seen the economy as a reward system benefitting only the richest, with everyone else left behind.

                Completely coincidentally, I'm sure, at the same time we've seen the rise of identity politics on the left and reactionary social conservatism on the right, getting us at each other's throats while the 1% (and .1%, and .01%) laugh all the way to the bank.

                I don't want to abolish the plutocracy. I simply want to reduce it to the size where I can drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub.
                Last edited by Kepler; 10-23-2017, 12:20 PM.
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                • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  All valid criticisms.

                  A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

                  So if I had the time, I'd look for data that broke down thusly, by quintile, growth rates for:

                  Pre-tax income.
                  after-tax income.
                  Overall inflation figures vs. inflation figures based upon goods most commonly purchased by each quintile.

                  ETA: I don't expect it would improve the picture for the bottom four quintiles.
                  "The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." George Orwell, 1984

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                  • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                    Originally posted by St. Clown View Post
                    So if I had the time, I'd look for data that broke down thusly, by quintile, growth rates for:

                    Pre-tax income.
                    after-tax income.
                    Overall inflation figures vs. inflation figures based upon goods most commonly purchased by each quintile.

                    ETA: I don't expect it would improve the picture for the bottom four quintiles.
                    Yep, after-tax real income is the best possible face you can put on it for the rich, because it includes all the forms of social assistance from the government as "income" for the poor. If we reduced the scope to only salary and capital gains, the bottom 2 quintiles would crater.

                    In Real Life, of course, many of the poor don't get that assistance. The ones who are poor because of mental condition go into a homeless hell indistinguishable from the worst situation for humans in any time period in any place in world history. The ones who have been herded into ghettos and denied legitimate chances of succeeding by racism and middle class fear are sucked into the crime / incarceration machine that is essentially modern slavery.

                    The picture of how actual lives go is far, far colder and darker than those these neat bargraphs. We are a nation of plenty that sentences a full quarter or so of its citizens to lives of misery as complete as a rural vagabond in the 13th century, and they can't even live off the farmland anymore.

                    But hey, they don't post here, and they don't vote, so out of sight, out of mind.
                    Last edited by Kepler; 10-23-2017, 12:29 PM.
                    Cornell University
                    National Champion 1967, 1970
                    ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                    • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      We are a nation of plenty that sentences a full quarter or so of its citizens to lives of misery as complete as a rural vagabond in the 13th century, and they can't even live off the farmland anymore.
                      This is what bothers me. We've got people literally starving, and trying to survive horrible untreated diseases of all kinds while living on the streets, and we're *itching and moaning because the 401(k) contribution might be touched by a marginal tax after socking away $5,000.00 ANNUALLY. A stupid selfish concern that might be limited to the top 0.1% of the world's wealthiest individuals. The thoughtless greed we exhibit is appalling. It would not take a whole lot of sacrifice to feed and shelter the people.
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                      • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                        Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                        All valid criticisms.

                        A simple, consistent, and inclusive breakdown of the CBO data:

                        that 99th %tile is getting away with murder!!!! they have had their income increase 24% more than mookie's in the 88th percentile their taxes should be raised!!!!
                        a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                        • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                          Letting Fredo's wife run point does not appear to be the best strategy: https://thinkprogress.org/there-is-a...s-61faf4d76b95

                          Friday morning on Fox and Friends, Lara Trump, Trump’s daughter-in-law, revealed there is a way to settle this definitively. There is, according to Lara Trump, a transcript of the conversation. Lara Trump, who does not work in the White House (but does work for Trump’s campaign), has read them.

                          ...

                          It’s also unclear why Lara Trump would have access to official White House transcripts of the call while the general public does not. Eric Trump, who frequently appears as a White House surrogate, is running the Trump Organization and is not supposed to be involved in his father’s political activities. It is unclear if he also read the transcript.

                          UPDATE (2:40 p.m.): White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders denied there is a transcript of the call. She referred further questions to Lara Trump and the Trump campaign.

                          Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                          KDR

                          Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                          iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
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                          DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                          Test to see if I can add this.

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                          • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                            Originally posted by French Rage View Post
                            Letting Fredo's wife run point does not appear to be the best strategy: https://thinkprogress.org/there-is-a...s-61faf4d76b95
                            "never marry a guiney!!"
                            a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

                            Comment


                            • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                              Also, how dare the congresswoman listen to a call that was on the speakerphone, but let's let everyone in the extended family read a transcript (if that part isn't a complete fabrication).

                              Cornell '04, Stanford '06


                              KDR

                              Rover Frenchy, Classic! Great post.
                              iwh30 I wish I could be as smart as you. I really do you are the man
                              gregg729 I just saw your sig, you do love having people revel in your "intelligence."
                              Ritt18 you are the perfect representation of your alma mater.
                              Miss Thundercat That's it, you win.
                              TBA#2 I want to kill you and dance in your blood.
                              DisplacedCornellian Hahaha. Thread over. Frenchy wins.

                              Test to see if I can add this.

                              Comment


                              • Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

                                Nope, there isn't a transcript.

                                *Edit* Twitter was a buzz this morning because apparently the Magamorons were confusing a video released by the wife of a soldier killed in Afghanistan as this widow's phone call.
                                Last edited by aparch; 10-23-2017, 02:22 PM.
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