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Thread: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Neither of them explains it like the difference in tax rates for labor vs. capital. Which I do not remember Bernie ever bringing that up. Higher taxes on rich people and less military spending doesn't work. If it did a Democrat would own the White House every election.
    Higher taxes on the rich worked really well for a long time and I think most on the left realize it needs to happen. The problem is you keep getting these ruling class types who don't propose to actually do anything about it. Same goes for military spending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    This is why I am willing to give Obama a break despite him getting very little done in fixing Wall Street or taxes. The Republican foxes are guarding the fiscal henhouse. Where Obama was able to commit to real change, as on monetary policy, he did, and of course it worked because Keynes > Friedman.

    But we will need a radical liberal sweep of the executive, legislative, and judiciary, lasting for a significant amount of time, to repair the damage that the rich and their craven conservative cronies have inflicted on this country.
    I agree but he definitely should've gotten some of this done before the Republicans took over house/senate (in which case that might not have happened).
    Last edited by trixR4kids; 10-11-2017 at 02:21 PM.

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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by trixR4kids View Post
    Higher taxes on the rich worked really well for a long time and I think most on the left realize it needs to happen. The problem is you keep getting these ruling class types who don't propose to actually do anything about it. Same goes for military spending.
    No. You get voters not voting for the people who would do such a thing. Obama barely got Health Care done with the only two years he had only clout. And that caused a wave election the other direction. You want change you're going to have to get Moderates on both sides in power or 67% Democrats or it's never going to happen. You also have to go out and campaign on the issue AFTER getting elected. Obama had nor did either of those. We got Obamacare instead and then Turtle Boy took over.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Can you explain to me what happened with the patience of explaining the internet to your grandfather?
    Racist, insecure idiots like Flaggy always need "The other guy" to blame all their problems on, because any sort of self-examination of their failed lives would not be pretty.

    Someone, either out of unintentional stupidity or wry cleverness, created that meme blaming all the problems in Puerto Rico on "The President of Puerto Rico"(which would obviously be Donald Trump). All the little Flaggingtons jumped in with their approval and promoted that from their dark, sad corner of Reddit to a more prominent, visible place on the website. Eventually, the moderators of that sad, dark corner caught on to what the meme was actually saying and went into CYA mode by deleting all the comments blaming the President of Puerto Rico.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Trouble brewing in Derpland.

    Conservatives activists are calling on Republican leaders in the Senate to step down, citing protracted inaction on President Donald Trump’s legislative agenda and their failure to confirm his judicial nominees at a sufficient rate.

    “You were not going to ‘drain the swamp.’ You are the swamp,” leaders of conservative groups wrote in a letter on Wednesday, complaining about the Senate’s failure to repeal Obamacare, control rising debt and curtail access to abortion. The four-page litany of grievances was addressed to five members of GOP leadership: Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (Ky.), Majority Whip John Cornyn (Texas), Roy Blunt (Mo.), John Thune (S.D.) and John Barrasso (Wyo.).

    “We foresee a scorched-earth disaster” if McConnell and others don’t leave their leadership posts, the activists warned.

    The letter’s signatories included representatives from some of the biggest conservative grassroots organizations: Ken Cuccinelli, the president of the Senate Conservatives Fund; Adam Brandon, the president of FreedomWorks; Jenny Beth Martin, co-founder of the Tea Party Patriots; Brent Bozell, founder of the Media Research Center; and Richard Viguerie, the chairman of the website ConservativeHQ.com.
    The other four are morons, but Viguerie is very important. He's a cross between Steve Bannon and Lee Atwater, he's been on the inside of the far right forever, and he knows where all the bodies are buried,
    Last edited by Kepler; 10-11-2017 at 02:23 PM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    But we will need a radical liberal sweep of the executive, legislative, and judiciary, lasting for a significant amount of time, to repair the damage that the rich and their craven conservative cronies have inflicted on this country.
    Really just have majority rule rather than gerrymander/electoral college rule.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Yeah, the get out the vote on the Dem side was epic fail. And a lot of people made a lot of money doing it. When I read Hillary's book I'll see if she bothers to mention it.
    The get out the vote on the democratic side failed miserably to attract white voters and especially white men because so much of it was geared to attracting minorities and women. We took the same message and literature to the east side of Cleveland for instance that we took to the west side and the western suburbs. Appeals to criminal justice reform and ending racism work well with a black audience. They do not work so well with a white working class audience. Economic messages can work with anyone, regardless of gender, race, religion or any of the other 12,000 identity politics issues the democrats insisting on appealing to.

    *ETA* The east side of Cleveland is where black residents are more heavily concentrated and the west side is very white. A number of western and southwestern suburbs are very white working class/middle class.
    Last edited by WeAreNDHockey; 10-11-2017 at 02:33 PM.

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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreNDHockey View Post
    Economic messages can work with anyone, regardless of gender, race, religion or any of the other 12,000 identity politics issues the democrats insisting on appealing to.
    That's how to get middle class white men. The identity nonsense we still have to use to sell to all the grievance groups because that's what the academic conveyor belt has programmed them with for forty years. It's a phase, it'll pass, but for now we broke it we bought it.

    A lot of the problems the left has are self-created because it was so easy to stop talking about wealth and start grousing about the lack of opportunity for the kind of women and non-whites who went to colleges to hear about the lack of opportunity they had. "Identity" meant well, but it became a divider that has now basically closed those people's ears to any idea that plumbing and color don't matter; what matters is America treats the poor like sh-t. People really like a messenger who tell them they are a victim.

    The rich may not have deliberately fostered that division to neuter the left and roll back economic justice, but they took to it like an alcoholic in a brewery, and academics and pundits on the left who were wealthy sure didn't reject it, particularly if they happened to be able to call themselves victims even while they cashed their checks.
    Last edited by Kepler; 10-11-2017 at 02:33 PM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Trouble brewing in Derpland.

    ...

    The other four are morons, but Viguerie is very important. He's a cross between Steve Bannon and Lee Atwater, he's been on the inside of the far right forever, and he knows where all the bodies are buried,
    Marshall has a take.

    First, it’s just five people. That’s not very many. More important is who the people are. Two of them have histories literally going back to the earliest days of the modern conservative movement.

    First there’s Richard Viguerie, basically the inventor of right wing direct mail fundraising. In many ways Viguerie invented clickbait and fake news decades before the Internet. He’s 84.

    Then there’s Brent Bozell. Bozell has lived his entire life in the sinecure right wing activism world, which some very unnice people are ungenerous enough to call the world of ‘wingnut welfare’. He founded the Media Research Center in 1987 – full-time yakking about ‘liberal media bias’. His father was L. Brent Bozell, Jr., partner with Bill Buckley is launching much of what we know as movement conservatism today. Among many other things he ghosted Barry Goldwater’s ‘Conscience of a Conservative’, a bible of young conservatives in the early 60s which helped launch his 1964 presidential run.

    To the extent that Trump is something ‘new’ in the GOP firmament, these folks are as old as it gets. The other three all predate Trump and in key cases predate the Tea Party. Jenny Beth Martin, co-founder of Tea Party Patriots is the ‘newest’ person on the list.

    This doesn’t mean they can’t write letters or that they’re not influential. But this is an example of what I think is really the truth. There’s no new anything. Trump is the candidate of the most unreconstructed elements of movement conservatism. In many ways, the folks modern conservatives don’t want to associate with publicly anymore.

    I'm not convinced but worth noting.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    "It is frankly disgusting the press is able to write whatever it wants to write." #actualTrumpquotes
    Dude's insanity is right out there for anyone willing to see it.
    Last edited by geezer; 10-11-2017 at 03:02 PM.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Unbelievable.

    And they "can't write whatever they want," because there are libel and slander laws.

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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Thoroughly believable. One of the endgames for the right has been capture of the free press. They're halfway there with their party propaganda networks masquerading as news. But it's still an inconvenience to them to have critical voices by an independent press. They buy as many of them as they can, but they won't have complete control until they can have a Putinesque press where criticism is a crime.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem


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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    Me too. And I've only got 5 months to go. Brent assures me though that Kelly and Mattis are up to the task. I laugh at that one.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    Thoroughly believable. One of the endgames for the right has been capture of the free press. They're halfway there with their party propaganda networks masquerading as news. But it's still an inconvenience to them to have critical voices by an independent press. They buy as many of them as they can, but they won't have complete control until they can have a Putinesque press where criticism is a crime.
    That's not coming from "the right." That's an authoritarian/dictatorial impulse along the lines of Castro or Putin or Mao. The free press is what has allowed "the right" to thrive through outlets catering to every special interest group out there. Where would they be without it during the Clinton or Obama years? I don't think Trump is conservative/right wing at all. He's a wannabe Fidel Castro.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    That's not coming from "the right." That's an authoritarian/dictatorial impulse along the lines of Castro or Putin or Mao. The free press is what has allowed "the right" to thrive through outlets catering to every special interest group out there. Where would they be without it during the Clinton or Obama years? I don't think Trump is conservative/right wing at all. He's a wannabe Fidel Castro.
    Uh, huh. Sure. More excuses for what the GOP/Right in this country have created? No, sorry. It's their baby. Trump is their creation.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Slap Shot View Post
    You won't miss much. Everything hurts and other people get more annoying everyday.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    With all the bleating about Obama "not doing enough" is this a good time to point out that he raised taxes on the rich or would people rather live in their own little world?
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by geezer View Post
    That's not coming from "the right." That's an authoritarian/dictatorial impulse along the lines of Castro or Putin or Mao. The free press is what has allowed "the right" to thrive through outlets catering to every special interest group out there. Where would they be without it during the Clinton or Obama years? I don't think Trump is conservative/right wing at all. He's a wannabe Fidel Castro.
    I misspoke. I should have said "the current American right," which is a neofeudal fascist movement of the 1% using fundy trogs as its useful idiots.

    Obviously there is nothing in conservatism that is inherently anti-libertarian. But continental liberal conservatism of the Russell Kirk stripe has been extinct in this nation for forty years.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Uh, huh. Sure. More excuses for what the GOP/Right in this country have created? No, sorry. It's their baby. Trump is their creation.
    I don't think so. I don't ever remember a U.S. President lobbying for repeal of the First Amendment before. Pretty sure this is a new breed of crazy.
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    Re: POTUS 45.21 STAND for our great National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    With all the bleating about Obama "not doing enough" is this a good time to point out that he raised taxes on the rich or would people rather live in their own little world?
    Whoop dee doo. He didn't nothing to stem the tide of the plutocracy. He tried, but just raising taxes on the rich isn't going to do it.
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