122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

[dxmnkd316]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

That's a good question. Is Michael Jordan the single most important player to any franchise in its history?

Can anybody think of someone comparable? Am I missing somebody obvious? LeBron and Cleveland?

Ruth. The Yankees might not become the Yankees without him. It may have been the Red Sox that become the Yankees.

It’s possible a modern day player will have that effect, but we won’t know for 30 years.

[CLS]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

I think it's easier in basketball for one player to make a huge impact. How deep off the bench do teams typically go? 2-3 at most as far as impact is concerned?

In hockey, even if you shorten the bench, you still need to roll at least three lines and two sets of defensemen. And of course, football heavily relies on completely different set of players for offense and defense as well as special teams. So, players there only have a chance to impact one side of the ball, and if the other side sucks, it doesn't matter how great that one player is.

Yup, agree completely. Many more examples in basketball than any other sport, even on the college level.

[Kepler]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Ruth. The Yankees might not become the Yankees without him.

I know what you mean but that's not what I mean. I mean the player who is over all time the greatest contributor to that franchise. Not The Founder or The Inspiration. Not Ruth or Russell or Seaver or Unitas or Jim Brown.

Well, maybe Jim Brown. Haven't all the other Browns sucked?

[SonofSouthie]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

I know what you mean but that's not what I mean. I mean the player who is over all time the greatest contributor to that franchise. Not The Founder or The Inspiration. Not Ruth or Russell or Seaver or Unitas or Jim Brown.

Well, maybe Jim Brown. Haven't all the other Browns sucked?

I mean the player who is over all time the greatest contributor to that franchise.

For the Boston Bruins franchise it'd be Bobby Orr.

[CommAvHusky]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

IMHO, basketball is almost the in-between of a team sport and as opposed to an individual sport, especially in today's NBA. Then again, Jordan didn't start winning championships until Scottie Pippen developed the skills to assist Jordan. Prior to this Jordan would try and beat teams by himself, he almost did that in one playoff game against the '86 Celtics. In the 1 3/4 seasons in between the three-peats where Jordan was "retired", the Bulls went from champions to good (not great).

LeBron? I feel is similar on a smaller scale, he won one championship for Cleveland, a city that is championship starved.

Brady? As a Jets fan, I will begrudge that he is a special player, but I feel for NFL teams, coaches deserve more credit. As I will remind Patriot fans, they still won 11 games with Matt Cassel as quarterback when Brady was injured. Even if Brady retires, the Patriots won't return to crap until Belichick retires.

Messier? the Oilers still won the Cup in 1990, what made the Edmonton run special was that Messier would be the top star on any team except his own until Gretzky got traded.

[Kepler]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

For the Boston Bruins franchise it'd be Bobby Orr.

He's the Inspiration, sure. But in terms of the all-time MVP, the Bruins have so many outstanding players that Orr is pretty low. Bourque alone probably steals about a third of his weight. It's the Ruth problem. Any given Yankee has a negligible overall score precisely because they have such a rich history.

The thing that's amazing about Jordan is that the Bulls are not a young franchise. It's easy to be a dominant all-time MVP of a 7-year old expansion team. But you need not only to be great but also to have played on a historically sh-tty team to be a true heavyweight. There just aren't that many.

Since the NBA is probably where the single most dominant alltime MVP is found, here is a list of each team's greatest. I have no idea whether the list is any good -- it's the internet so I'm guessing... no.

Top 10:

1. Jordan, Chi
2. James, Mia
3. James, Clv
4. Kareem, Mil
5. Shaq, Orl
6. Duncan, SA
7. Magic, LA (is that even right?)
8. Russell, Bos
9. Wilt, GS
10. Olajuwon, Hou

James' problem is right there -- split between two teams. Kareem and Shaq and Wilt have the same issue. Duncan or Olajuwon? Maybe Dominique Wilkins for the Hawks? I just don't know enough basketball. LA and Bos have the Ruth problem.

God, the Knicks are ripe for somebody coming in and just ripping down the house. Maybe around the year 2060.

[CLS]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

...

Brady? As a Jets fan, I will begrudge that he is a special player, but I feel for NFL teams, coaches deserve more credit. As I will remind Patriot fans, they still won 11 games with Matt Cassel as quarterback when Brady was injured. Even if Brady retires, the Patriots won't return to crap until Belichick retires.

Fair argument CAH, and until this year I'd agree with you. But that 11-win season was against a pathetic schedule -- a perfect storm of a weak AFC division and NFC division on their schedule (sorry, don't remember specifics). The whole AFC East, crapshow that it is, had a good year; the 11 wins wasn't even good enough for the Pats to make the playoffs that year. While we'll never know for sure, I think that the Pats would have won 14 or 15 that year with Brady.

Also, it's fair to say that the first few wins were as much the defense as the offense.

But it's also fair to argue that the Pats should have won this years SB with better coaching.

[The Rube]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

For bouncyball, BOS and LA in their many heydays had more than one superstar. They were LOADED with talent, dare I say each top starting lineup were insanely good. There weren't just 1-2 guys that made a difference, like Shaq or Jordan or LeBron. This may sound blasphemous, but Jordan (while being the GOAT) still had Pippen, who would have been the superstar on most any other team.

[SonofSouthie]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

But in terms of the all-time MVP, the Bruins have so many outstanding players that Orr is pretty low.

Considering Bobby Orr revolutionized the defenceman position and the argument of greatest hockey player of all time has come down to him and Gretzky, you're out of your mind.

[The Rube]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Considering Bobby Orr revolutionized the defenceman position and the argument of greatest hockey player of all time has come down to him and Gretzky, you're out of your mind.

Mario Lemieux on Line 1.

[Kepler]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Considering Bobby Orr revolutionized the defenceman position and the argument of greatest hockey player of all time has come down to him and Gretzky, you're out of your mind.

You don't understand the question.

It's not the tallest building, it's the tallest building relative to the rest of the skyline.

[JF_Gophers]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Bobby Orr doesnt crack the top 5 for all time best.

[Kepler]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Please don't make this a Boston d-ck measuring contest. Let them have their bank shill house pet.

The point is NOT, for once, that Boston sucks. It's that Boston hasn't sucked -- they have other greats so while Orr is one of them he doesn't tower the way Jordan does.

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

Considering Bobby Orr revolutionized the defenceman position and the argument of greatest hockey player of all time has come down to him and Gretzky, you're out of your mind.

Gordie Howe

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: 122 Franchises Ranked Bottom to Top:

For bouncyball, BOS and LA in their many heydays had more than one superstar. They were LOADED with talent, dare I say each top starting lineup were insanely good. There weren't just 1-2 guys that made a difference, like Shaq or Jordan or LeBron. This may sound blasphemous, but Jordan (while being the GOAT) still had Pippen, who would have been the superstar on most any other team.

I have rarely followed the NBA for quite some time now (as far as I care, the best TEAM basketball and championships were won by the Knicks), but I always saw Pippen as the quintessential support player. I never saw him as able to be the leading star on a team. Nothing wrong with that. He played his role extremely well, was the key final piece to the Bulls' dynasty, and got paid handsomely for it. Now, if only we can get North Korea to keep him...