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RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

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  • Originally posted by komey1 View Post
    I believe the rule is that you have to go DII for a set number of years before you go DI. That would prohibit the Rochester area colleges since you would need to find leagues.
    True. Though I suppose you could go independent. It’s not like you’re going to commit very long to a D2 league anyway...
    Russell Jaslow
    [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
    U.S. College Hockey Online

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    • Originally posted by komey1 View Post
      I believe the rule is that you have to go DII for a set number of years before you go DI. That would prohibit the Rochester area colleges since you would need to find leagues.
      Roberts Wesleyan is D2, East Coast Conference. No reason others couldn’t do the same, other than the conference itself not wanting to be a stepping stone.

      Comment


      • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

        Originally posted by Rochester View Post
        Rochester is the largest city without a D1 College program...
        Why do people keep making this argument, year after year after year? It's completely meaningless. The size of the market has absolutely nothing to do with the existence or lack of a DI program at the local colleges and universities (e.g. DI programs exist and thrive in places like Stillwater, OK, Lincoln, NE, Syracuse, NY, Boise, ID, etc.) This isn't professional sports where a city can start a team at a level based on the market size. Schools either are or aren't DI schools, generally. For many years, NONE of the schools in this area were willing or able to support DI athletics, no matter what market they existed in. They were DIII schools (except RWC, of course), and that's that. Now that RIT has grown so much in size, reputation, and stature over the last couple decades they may be able to be a DI type of school, but it will take a lot of work, money, and time to pull off. It's just not that easy to switch from DIII to DI in the snap of fingers because the fans want it.
        Yes, there are DI programs out there at schools that one wouldn't think of as DI schools, but that is why DI has put such rigorous requirements around upgrading. The schools that upgraded just so they could get a piece of the NCAA tournament $ and didn't really care about being competitive in any DI sport are not helping the fans in their local markets in any way. I imagine many of those generate virtually no interest locally.
        Can't we all just get along?
        Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

        Comment


        • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

          Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
          Why do people keep making this argument, year after year after year? It's completely meaningless. The size of the market has absolutely nothing to do with the existence or lack of a DI program at the local colleges and universities (e.g. DI programs exist and thrive in places like Stillwater, OK, Lincoln, NE, Syracuse, NY, Boise, ID, etc.) This isn't professional sports where a city can start a team at a level based on the market size. Schools either are or aren't DI schools, generally. For many years, NONE of the schools in this area were willing or able to support DI athletics, no matter what market they existed in. They were DIII schools (except RWC, of course), and that's that. Now that RIT has grown so much in size, reputation, and stature over the last couple decades they may be able to be a DI type of school, but it will take a lot of work, money, and time to pull off. It's just not that easy to switch from DIII to DI in the snap of fingers because the fans want it.
          Yes, there are DI programs out there at schools that one wouldn't think of as DI schools, but that is why DI has put such rigorous requirements around upgrading. The schools that upgraded just so they could get a piece of the NCAA tournament $ and didn't really care about being competitive in any DI sport are not helping the fans in their local markets in any way. I imagine many of those generate virtually no interest locally.
          Personally, I don't use it as an argument, I just use it as one of those fascinating facts...

          But to get to your point, people should be careful what they ask for. Let's suppose RIT goes D1 across the board. Let's suppose when they do, they actually put together a decent BB team, good enough to maybe grab an AQ in a mid-major conference. What happens then? Does the publicity of a BB team in March Madness even if they never win the first round exceed that of a hockey team which traditionally has been the sport at RIT, even a very competitive hockey team after they start giving scholarships out?

          Could be. Especially with the casual local sports fan who only pays attention when March Madness rolls around. Then, suddenly, that traditional hockey team isn't so traditional anymore...

          What happens if the lacrosse team starts to seriously contend for a national D1 title -- very likely in this area where great lacrosse recruits are never more than a couple of hours away? Does the potential for a national title supersede the excitement of a traditional good but not great hockey team? Again, could be.
          Russell Jaslow
          [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
          U.S. College Hockey Online

          Comment


          • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

            Russell - You and I both know the answer regarding basketball. The hoops would trump hockey at that time. I'm sure our friends out in Hamilton can atest to that when Colgate has a good basketball team.

            I'm less sure about LAX. They could turn out good teams, but I think it would take a couple good runs there to get general interest.

            I think that most of us would be willing to make this trade off for improving hockey. We know winning will bring in crowds.
            2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
            2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
            2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
            2010 Frozen Four participant
            2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

            Member of the infamous Corner Crew

            Comment


            • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

              Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
              Why do people keep making this argument, year after year after year? It's completely meaningless. The size of the market has absolutely nothing to do with the existence or lack of a DI program at the local colleges and universities.
              It's not completely meaningless. What it means is that the market is big enough that D-I sports could attract support from the locals, which translates to less subsidization of the sports by the university.

              Boise, Stillwater, and Lincoln have big public universities in rural states where the entire state feels an affinity with the teams. Syracuse, too, to an extent; SU hoops are popular throughout New York State. RIT wouldn't have those advantages, but we do have a metro population of sufficient size.


              Powers &8^]

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              • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                I think that most of us would be willing to make this trade off for improving hockey.
                I'm not so sure. Unless you're positing it's the only way to improve hockey.


                Powers &8^]

                Comment


                • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                  Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post
                  Let's suppose RIT goes D1 across the board. Let's suppose when they do, they actually put together a decent BB team, good enough to maybe grab an AQ in a mid-major conference. What happens then? Does the publicity of a BB team in March Madness even if they never win the first round exceed that of a hockey team which traditionally has been the sport at RIT, even a very competitive hockey team after they start giving scholarships out?

                  Could be. Especially with the casual local sports fan who only pays attention when March Madness rolls around. Then, suddenly, that traditional hockey team isn't so traditional anymore...
                  Granted that those are big "ifs", but...
                  in the case that it did happen, it still might be tough to break into the stranglehold SU has on the local college basketball fans in Rochester. There are already enough mid-major basketball programs in central and western NY that struggle in the vast Orange shadow, with the obvious exception of St. Bonaventure. The Bonnies have a long history on their side and have established their own niche, but are not in a true mid-major conference. Canisius and Niagara are both DI in a larger market than Rochester, and have been for a long time. I would imagine that both of them combined couldn't draw anywhere near as many fans as SU to a game at Key Bank Center. When either the Griffins or the Purple Eagles make the tournament on occasion, i'm sure they get a fair amount of coverage in the Buffalo sports media, but once that fascination fades the following regular season sees little if any significant coverage of their MAAC games because nobody cares about that conference or those opponents (kind of like the AHC). I imagine it being similar if RIT were to be in the same situation. Nobody would be clamoring for tickets to an RIT vs Fairfield regular season basketball game even if the Tigers happened to make the NCAA tournament the year before and lost 108-52 to Duke, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas, or whomever (or worse, to another potential # 16 seed in the play-in round).
                  That being said, you are right. Basketball > Hockey regardless, whether we like it or not. So the hockey team would likely fade further into the background of local college sports coverage unless they offer scholarships, change conferences, start playing more notable opponents on a regular basis here at home and actually start winning. But even with all that, it's tough enough to compete with minor-pro sports teams in a pro sports town. If you have to compete against a significantly more popular sport within your same school, well that's another challenge altogether.
                  Last edited by TigerFan86-87; 03-13-2018, 11:51 AM.
                  Can't we all just get along?
                  Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                  Comment


                  • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                    Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                    when Colgate has a good basketball team.
                    When does that happen?
                    Can't we all just get along?
                    Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                    Comment


                    • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                      Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                      When does that happen?
                      They were 1 win away from the NCAA this year.
                      2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                      2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                      2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                      2010 Frozen Four participant
                      2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                      Member of the infamous Corner Crew

                      Comment


                      • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                        Originally posted by LtPowers View Post
                        I'm not so sure. Unless you're positing it's the only way to improve hockey.


                        Powers &8^]
                        It's not the only way, but it is the easiest way.

                        One thing I would also say is that I am not sure it's worth it to go all the way to DI to get scholarships for hockey if there is no room to get into a better conference. I will need to see proof that all the increased scholarship limits the conference has results in more multi-bid years.
                        2006-07 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                        2008-09 Atlantic Hockey Co-Champions!
                        2009-10 Atlantic Hockey Champions!
                        2010 Frozen Four participant
                        2010-11 Atlantic Hockey Champions!

                        Member of the infamous Corner Crew

                        Comment


                        • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                          Under the current administration it's more likely we move hockey to D3 than the rest of the school to D1, based on what I have seen/heard.
                          RIT

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                          • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                            Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                            They were 1 win away from the NCAA this year.
                            Everything is relative, I guess. I was thinking nationally.
                            Can't we all just get along?
                            Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                            Comment


                            • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                              Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                              It's not the only way, but it is the easiest way.
                              Exactly

                              Originally posted by komey1 View Post
                              One thing I would also say is that I am not sure it's worth it to go all the way to DI to get scholarships for hockey if there is no room to get into a better conference. I will need to see proof that all the increased scholarship limits the conference has results in more multi-bid years.
                              Yes. More scholarships (whether by being DI or DII) may or may not result in much better results if the increased scholarship allowances of the AHC don't amount to much as far as increasing the conference's stature. The AHC teams have improved and many have new or larger facilities to use now, but the national implications are not significant enough at this point. That, hopefully, is a longer term deal. If we don't see results (more at-large bids) within the next 5 to 10 years, it may never come to fruition for AHC and another conference would be the only way. But as you state, if there isn't room to move it's all moot.
                              Can't we all just get along?
                              Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                              Comment


                              • Re: RIT Tigers 2017 / 2018. Is time to go out and capture some prey!

                                Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post

                                Yes. More scholarships (whether by being DI or DII) may or may not result in much better results if the increased scholarship allowances of the AHC don't amount to much as far as increasing the conference's stature. The AHC teams have improved and many have new or larger facilities to use now, but the national implications are not significant enough at this point. That, hopefully, is a longer term deal. If we don't see results (more at-large bids) within the next 5 to 10 years, it may never come to fruition for AHC and another conference would be the only way. But as you state, if there isn't room to move it's all moot.
                                The fact that the quality of play within the AHC has improved (as well as, more marginally, the league's OOC results) as scholarship numbers have grown proves that even within the AHC there is plenty of room to improve via scholarships.
                                RIT

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