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Thread: Wednesday Women is back!

  1. #21
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    I have to say, I think it is very, very, very unlikely that Wisconsin gets the CHA team this year.

    EDIT: ARM had my back haha
    So, in the case that Minn doesn't make the tournament, why would it be 'likely' that Ohio State comes to Madison? That isn't 'bus trip' distance. Once you're on a plane, does the distance of the flight matter to the pairings? Why wouldn't it be Clarkson and Colgate host Cornell and St Lawrence (again, assuming no Minnesota, and otherwise taking the current top seven), and then Wisconsin and BC get OSU and the CHA winner? Robert Morris or Mercyhurst, et al, aren't 'bus trip' distance to Boston, so if Wisconsin is still #1, why wouldn't they get the CHA winner?

    (See, this is why we needed a Pairwise Powerpoint yesterday!)

    Put maybe more briefly: If somebody is flying to Madison, and Robert Morris/Mercyhurst is flying somewhere, why wouldn't they be flying to Madison?
    Last edited by robertearle; 02-07-2018 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    So, in the case that Minn doesn't make the tournament, why would it be 'likely' that Ohio State comes to Madison? That isn't 'bus trip' distance. Once you're on a plane, does the distance of the flight matter to the pairings? Why wouldn't it be Clarkson and Colgate host Cornell and St Lawrence (again, assuming no Minnesota, and otherwise taking the current top seven), and then Wisconsin and BC get OSU and the CHA winner? Robert Morris or Mercyhurst, et al, aren't 'bus trip' distance to Boston, so if Wisconsin is still #1, why wouldn't they get the CHA winner?

    (See, this is why we needed a Pairwise Powerpoint yesterday!)

    Put maybe more briefly: If somebody is flying to Madison, and Robert Morris/Mercyhurst is flying somewhere, why wouldn't they be flying to Madison?
    Yeah if the Gophers don't make it, it's likely (but not certain) that Ohio State goes to Madison. Ohio State is a flight anywhere, and the other matchups would all be bus trips.

    The only exception to this is if Mercyhurst (or Lindenwood, a bus to Madison) wins. Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.

  3. #23
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    I have to say, I think it is very, very, very unlikely that Wisconsin gets the CHA team this year.

    EDIT: ARM had my back haha
    Perhaps, but if it's Mercyhurst they fly anyway. That was the rationale two years ago when BC had the top seed, yet played Northeastern, and Mercyhurst played Wisconsin, while Clarkson got Quinnipiac and Minnesota got Princeton.

    I don't think OSU would go to Madison; they have to fly anyway, and they'll probably keep them in the East, maybe facing no. 3 seed Clarkson, assuming that the Buckeyes don't lift their PairWise high enough to be a home ice team.
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.
    Isn't Mercyhurst closer to Colgate than Robert Morris is to Colgate? And isn't Robert Morris much farther than 'bus trip' to Clarkson?

    Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
    Last edited by robertearle; 02-07-2018 at 01:55 PM.

  5. #25
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arafel View Post
    I don't think OSU would go to Madison; they have to fly anyway, and they'll probably keep them in the East, maybe facing no. 3 seed Clarkson, assuming that the Buckeyes don't lift their PairWise high enough to be a home ice team.
    OSU would likely go to Madison if the CHA team can be bused somewhere in the East. If the Buckeyes have to fly no matter where they go, then the committee will pick one flight over two and not care about bracket integrity.

    robertearle is correct, but bracket integrity hasn't trumped flight reduction since 2006. Now if someone were to win the lottery and bequest a fortune to the NCAA Women's Ice Hockey Tournament with stipulations that must be met ...
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    .......
    Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
    I don't like it either but if you are the #1 seed on your home ice you should be able to beat any of the #5 thru 8, no matter who you play and if you don't win then you did not deserve to go to the Frozen 4. (Ducks behind the couch awaiting the daggers).
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by vicb View Post
    I don't like it either but if you are the #1 seed on your home ice you should be able to beat any of the #5 thru 8, no matter who you play and if you don't win then you did not deserve to go to the Frozen 4. (Ducks behind the couch awaiting the daggers).
    But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.
    Well, of course, but that's the stupid rules we're given

    As for flight/bus -- that's actually set in stone. Anything under 400 miles on the NCAA's online tool is a bus, anything longer is a flight. https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

    Directive #1 is minimize flights, #2 is preserve bracket integrity as long as it doesn't add additional flights.

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    Isn't Mercyhurst closer to Colgate than Robert Morris is to Colgate? And isn't Robert Morris much farther than 'bus trip' to Clarkson?

    Ugh! I hate this. Finishing first should matter; it should come with *some* advantage over finishing fourth. That goes for all the possibilities: a #1 BC should not get stuck having to play a #5 Northeastern (when that happens next year). It isn't fair to the #1 team, and it isn't fair to the #5 team.
    Well, remember, one way the Committee gets around this is not seeding teams 5-8. Only the first four are seeded, and their myopic view, which is clearly influenced by "Why do we need to hold a women's tournament in the first place?" is that any seeded team should beat any non-seeded team.
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    But the #5 shouldn't have to play #1 to get their shot at a Final Four. They earned a shot at #4.
    We have dealt with this in the WCHA for years. As much as I hate UND I have to admit they often had teams better than some in the final 4 but had their season ended at Ridder. One time in triple OT. This is crappy but unless and until the NC$$ makes money on the thing it is the curse of women's hockey.

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    ...As for flight/bus -- that's actually set in stone. Anything under 400 miles on the NCAA's online tool is a bus, anything longer is a flight.
    Google & Bing agree that the distance from Pittsburgh to Potsdam is 494 miles.

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    Robert Morris to Colgate is 402 miles the slightly faster way but 396 miles the slightly slower way...lol

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by KTDC View Post
    Robert Morris to Colgate is 402 miles the slightly faster way but 396 miles the slightly slower way...lol
    Did you measure rink-to-rink distance? The city-to-city numbers are so close to the 400 mile threshold, it might actually make the difference!

    Even more amusing: Since the Pittsburgh airport is quite a ways West of the City, it's possible that the distance by air is over 400 miles, while the distance by bus is less than 400 miles. What then? Half the team has to fly, while the other half of the team has to travel by bus?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    Did you measure rink-to-rink distance? The city-to-city numbers are so close to the 400 mile threshold, it might actually make the difference!

    Even more amusing: Since the Pittsburgh airport is quite a ways West of the City, it's possible that the distance by air is over 400 miles, while the distance by bus is less than 400 miles. What then? Half the team has to fly, while the other half of the team has to travel by bus?
    Distance between schools for NCAA purposes is determined using this link:

    https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Distance between schools for NCAA purposes is determined using this link:

    https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
    Robert Morris to Colgate = 403
    Robert Morris to Clarkson = 494

    So, Robert Morris is a flight to any of the top four.

    Mercyhurst to Colgate = 372
    Mercyhurst to Clarkson = 282

    (Done by 'institution name' radio button)

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by robertearle View Post
    Robert Morris to Colgate = 403
    Robert Morris to Clarkson = 494

    So, Robert Morris is a flight to any of the top four.

    Mercyhurst to Colgate = 372
    Mercyhurst to Clarkson = 282

    (Done by 'institution name' radio button)
    You have Mercyhurst to CCT/Colgate bass ackwards

    Mercyhurst to Colgate = 282
    Mercyhurst to Clarkson = 372
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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by vicb View Post
    You have Mercyhurst to CCT/Colgate bass ackwards
    oops

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Distance between schools for NCAA purposes is determined using this link:

    https://web1.ncaa.org/TES/exec/miles
    Appreciate the link. Since we're stuck with the "stupid rules," having a tool to settle mileage disputes is a good idea.

    I went ahead and used the tool to calculate the distance from Robert Morris to Colgate. It gave me the result I expected. That pairing is a flight, but just barely. Mileage was the same as robertearle reports, who presumably used the tool as well.

    You kind of missed my drift, however. My real intent was to gently disrespect the process. The actual answer was secondary in this case.
    Last edited by pgb-ohio; 02-08-2018 at 12:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pgb-ohio View Post
    You kind of missed my drift, however. My real intent was to gently disrespect the process. The actual answer was secondary in this case.
    Hahaha... Well, yes lol

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    Re: Wednesday Women is back!

    Quote Originally Posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Yeah if the Gophers don't make it, it's likely (but not certain) that Ohio State goes to Madison. Ohio State is a flight anywhere, and the other matchups would all be bus trips.

    The only exception to this is if Mercyhurst (or Lindenwood, a bus to Madison) wins. Mercyhurst is also a flight anywhere. Robert Morris, on the other hand, is a bus to both Clarkson and Colgate. The others in the CHA are also a bus trip to at least one other top 4 school.

    TTT, I seem to remember 2 HE teams getting screwed a couple of years back. #1 should have gotten #8 but the geniuses...including the Wisco coach, send #5 to #1 and #2 (wicso I believe...could be wrong) got #8.

    #5 actually got more screwed than # 1 did that year. Imagine if OSU had to go to WI? Watt's the reward for WI being #1? they get #5? Worse, how could #5 OSU get that screwed having to play #1?

    hopefully Mr. Wisco coach is consistent. I doubt he will be when his team is adversely affected.

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