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Thread: Days Since Last Shooting II

  1. #521
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by SJHovey View Post
    I wrote my sentence poorly. I didn't think you were whining. That's why I added the "as many other posters have done" phrase, but I'll admit it could have been read to include you. That was not my intent. But other posters have come in here, shrieking and whining, with no solutions posed, and I don't think that's helpful. In fact, it's part of the reason for polarization on the issue.

    As for your question, they do actually make weapons with only a single shot available, although at least from my experience they are extremely rare. I've only seen one, and it was my grandfather's .410 shotgun, but I'm sure others exist. If you banned everything else, you might as well go with the total ban. I'm guessing huge sections of the public don't even have my limited experience with a single shot gun.

    To my way of thinking, the most practical solution is two-fold. First, I'd impose some sort of liability on persons who own a gun but permit, either intentionally or unintentionally, it's use in a crime.

    Second, I'd do what we did with smoking. I'd tax the he!! out of it. We didn't see a big reduction in smoking because it was bad for you or because we sued people. A lot of people quit because they simply couldn't afford it. Big taxes on guns, ammo and the materials used to make ammo (since many are making their own) will go a long way towards reducing gun purchases and usage in this country. That, coupled with the general decline in hunting, will ultimately change the gun culture. It just won't be in our lifetime.
    If a single shot is impractical, we can go back to 5 or 6. Since the 6 shooter is deeply rooted in American history, 6 is a good number. Any weapon that holds more than that is too much. There's no reasonable reason a skilled shooter will need more than 6 rounds to accomplish what they need to do.

    Second, put a real limit on how fast a fire arm can re-fire. Again, lets go back and take a good look at the 6 shooter, and then define that no weapon available to the public can shoot faster than that. Now I know many will say that this can't be done, and I say BS. It's just a mechanical device, which can be rate limited very easily. Any thing that increases that rate of fire is not legal at all.

    Both of those steps would have very much reduced the number of shots that got off in Las Vegas. Maybe not because he could not just get around them, but the difficulty in getting around those limits would have likely reduced the ABILITY of people to make the changes on the scale that this guy did. Skilled machinists are not nearly as common as people think, and when you put major laws against public ones, it also reduces the resources people have to modify weapons.

    We can add more background checks, but what in the world do we do with them? Unless there's a real mechanism to share and be able to use that info, they are only partially useful. The whole mental health issue is funny- since it gets brought up as an add after big shootings, but then it gets attacked as it's anti-2nd Amendment at other times.

    BTW, there was an interesting time line in Time- showing that the low point in mass shootings happened during the assault weapons ban era. Shocking. Once that ended, the number and the scale took a sharp upturn. The data looks pretty clear that the ban and it's lifting had a significant impact. So laws like I have proposed work, even in the US where we have a gun fetish. And it's fair to note that the assault weapons ban was LEGAL- it's not that it was overturned by the SCOTUS, it's life was finite, and it ended. When you have such an arbitrary law like that was, the laws that I propose are easily legal.

  2. #522
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    I like the idea of requiring a permit to own a gun and severe penalties for possessing an unpermitted firearm, and any conviction of a felony = lifetime ban. Also ban certain types of weapons (anything but bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns, and some hand guns would be banned. Hand guns are probably the most commonly used in crimes and kids accidentally shooting themselves or a family member. They would require extensive background checks, safety certification, liability insurance, and must be secured (locked) and unloaded for transportation outside the home.

    Of course existing non compliant guns are out there and there would need to be some kind of buyback/confiscation. Blackmarket / unregistered guns recovered during criminal investigations would be destroyed. You get convicted of a felony all your guns get destroyed. It may take us 100 years but eventually we will have a more reasonable number of guns.
    I forgot to add, I would make it illegal to buy ammunition (or material to load your own ammunition) without a matching registration to make it harder to get ammunition for unregistered firearms.

  3. #523
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    We also need to make the penalties for the sellers. If an illegal fire arm is traced to them or if they are caught selling under the table then they need to punished quite severely. Same with people who sell their arms to others...if the gun is illegal or if you sell someone a gun from your personal stock and they use it in a crime then you need to be charged with a crime as well.
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  4. #524
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    We also need to make the penalties for the sellers. If an illegal fire arm is traced to them or if they are caught selling under the table then they need to punished quite severely. Same with people who sell their arms to others...if the gun is illegal or if you sell someone a gun from your personal stock and they use it in a crime then you need to be charged with a crime as well.
    wouldn't that be covered under the "illegal" part already?
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  5. #525
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    From the good old days five years ago...July 2012:


    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    I've gotten a lot of crapola on the site for saying guns are becoming a big problem. The combination of easy access to them (shown to be easier than voting in many states), conceal/carry, and SYG changes American justice. And therefore, it will absolutely allow for more murders (which will now be called something else) and change willingness to commit these murders (either because they believe they can get off or it is no longer defined as murder).

    Expect violence to continue to increase in terms of both legal murders as well as mass violent outbursts due to increases in gun culture and weapons proliferation
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II


  7. #527
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    If a single shot is impractical, we can go back to 5 or 6. ... the 6 shooter ... Second, put a real limit on how fast a fire arm can re-fire.
    This of which you speak, the nostalgic "6 shooter", is a revolver.

    Eight rounds, on target, with a revolver: one second.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzHG-ibZaKM

    Not an automatic.
    Not a semi-automatic.
    A revolver.
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  8. #528
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    whew!!!! the good ole usa is off the hook for now!
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  9. #529
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    wouldn't even make national news in the US, let alone be reported internationally.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    I forgot to add, I would make it illegal to buy ammunition (or material to load your own ammunition) without a matching registration to make it harder to get ammunition for unregistered firearms.
    Great call. Why is this not already in place?
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Great call. Why is this not already in place?
    guns are not registered like cars. This is in my fantasy world where they have to be.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    guns are not registered like cars. This is in my fantasy world where they have to be.
    And I would guess many more guns are floating around illegally than are cars.

    Edit: Now a conservative might argue - why are we so concerned with illegal guns and not illegal immigrants? They would have a point - we should adhere to laws on illegal immigrants as well.

    But the existence of illegal immigrants actually does help this country and its citizens by playing an important role in society...by performing jobs many won't and by keeping the prices of many products low. The presence of illegal guns just makes for more risk of homicides and difficulty in punishing those crimes. That's where the difference lies.
    Last edited by 5mn_Major; 10-13-2017 at 11:15 AM.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    Great call. Why is this not already in place?
    A lot of gun owners worry the government would do nefarious things with a list like that. Some states have them already.
    Originally posted by BobbyBrady
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  14. #534
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    A lot of gun owners worry the government would do nefarious things with a list like that. Some states have them already.
    Never understood this mentality. Its the same as I don't want the government watching the websites I'm visiting. Like the CIA is sitting around laughing about the websites Drew S is visiting or something. If there were lots of governmental shenanigans with information...there would be many court cases popping up and lots of press to accompany them. The government just does not use this kind of info unless major crimes necessitate it - why should all that change literally tomorrow?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    A lot of gun owners worry the government would do nefarious things with a list like that. Some states have them already.
    Well say no more. We don't want to worry gun owners. Poor little snowflakes.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    A lot of gun owners worry the government would do nefarious things with a list like that.
    I remember when paranoia like that was limited to a handful of John Birchers who the rest of the right laughed at. Now it's the entire Republican party and the cornerstone of national policy.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    guns are not registered like cars. This is in my fantasy world where they have to be.
    When guns are initially sold new, or resold by a licensed dealer, they are "registered" using the ATF firearms form. The priimary problem with the forms is they simply go into the ATF and are filed away in the basement. There is no searchable database of those forms, by law. If, for instance, someone wanted to find out how many guns BassAle may have purchased, or what types, you'd have to do a hand search of the forms.
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  18. #538
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by 5mn_Major View Post
    And I would guess many more guns are floating around illegally than are cars.

    Edit: Now a conservative might argue - why are we so concerned with illegal guns and not illegal immigrants? They would have a point - we should adhere to laws on illegal immigrants as well.

    But the existence of illegal immigrants actually does help this country and its citizens by playing an important role in society...by performing jobs many won't and by keeping the prices of many products low. The presence of illegal guns just makes for more risk of homicides and difficulty in punishing those crimes. That's where the difference lies.
    If there were no illegal immigrants, those jobs they have would be difficult to fill at those wages. So employers would have to raise wages, say to a "livable wage." Huh. Imagine someone working at McDonald's for, I dunno, $15/hr? Someone should get to work on that.


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  19. #539
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Kepler View Post
    I remember when paranoia like that was limited to a handful of John Birchers who the rest of the right laughed at. Now it's the entire Republican party and the cornerstone of national policy.
    I think a lot of it is because of JFK and 9/11. An even better example is Pat Tillman's death. The government flat out lied about what happened and potentially covered up something sinister(or it might have been complete incompetence.) I personally don't care if the government tracks what I do online or what I have for guns. I can see where people would be uneasy with it though.
    Originally posted by BobbyBrady
    Crosby probably wouldn't even be on BC's top two lines next year

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    I think a lot of it is because of JFK and 9/11. An even better example is Pat Tillman's death. The government flat out lied about what happened and potentially covered up something sinister(or it might have been complete incompetence.) I personally don't care if the government tracks what I do online or what I have for guns. I can see where people would be uneasy with it though.

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