Days Since Last Shooting II

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Go watch a Japanese anime show sometime. Yeah, it's only in western culture.

Read it again. I said America was unique inside of Western Culture. I know other cultures have Misogyny. Reading comprehension for the win. Being better than Saudi Arabia is nothing to be proud of.

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

The outcomes of that study are definitely questionable when the surface data points to the logical conclusion that Australians have reached - that their society is better with limited access to guns.

The broader point is that the preponderance of facts on the table address the dangers of lax gun laws. There are specific actions that other countries have taken with both evidence and the belief they are successful, there are US states with lax gun laws that have the highest rates of gun deaths, there are police recommendations that guns not be used when confronting someone armed, there is the choice of guns as the best weapon for mass murder, and a host of other facts. Yet there are posters...and yes, you are among them...that attempt to confuse the issue by sowing doubt. Its no wonder that you get a negative reaction.

[burd]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'm talking about the mass murders. And I'm talking about the pervasive attitude towards women that Americans seem to have, which is unique in the Western Civilized World.

Well, Japan is west of Murica, isn't it?

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

To those that do wish to donate: https://www.gofundme.com/dr2ks2-las-vegas-victims-fund

Also, a clear head about what's going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuaXRrf8v2A

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

I didn't say that you posted that, what I DID say was that is the natural conclusion that can be come to based on your points. That exact thing was said by a gun group leader in Nevada during NPR this afternoon. He even claimed that 59 people would have died and 500 would be injured even had he not had access to those guns. Nothing can be done to reduce the effects of evil people.

Your whole point is that because of other circumstances, it does not appear that there is a change in violent crime due to gun laws. Otherwise, there would be no reason to suggest that the conclusions are lost in other factors. One can also say, based on the data, that the gun laws doubled it's effect, but the final number does not reflect that due to other reasons.

It's tiring to read people suggest that studies show no change due to gun laws. The reality is that you can't lead to a SPECIFIC reduction due to guns.

Whenever anyone suggests that gun laws have a very small or no effect, the whole goal is to do nothing. Change nothing.

If that's not the conclusion you want to make, then don't suggest that the studies are so flawed that one can say that the laws did nothing.

We CAN do something. If people would only pull their heads out of gun makers rear ends.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I agree that a combination of actions can be taken. Things that make sense and would have an impact. I would also say that said actions do not need to go to the extent of what Australia did, where my understanding is that you basically have to have a pretty good chunk of money to get a license and join a private club to access a gun.

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

We CAN do something. If people would only pull their heads out of gun makers rear ends.

This will not happen with the orcs until guns become unlinked from their cultural identity, but that will never happen. That link was painstakingly forged over the last 40 years by the NRA to provide a human shield for their profits. So we must wait for the orcs to die off.

If the cigarette ban had come along now instead of thirty years ago we'd be having the same discussion over it. It isn't about guns -- the guns are irrelevant. It's about a failed culture circling the drain, thrashing and squawling. Unfit as configured to thrive in modern life, unable to change, and incompetent to create a viable future for itself, it clings to a cartoon version of the past. This is Toynbee's "recapitulation" phase of history that overtakes every dying culture. It is nostalgic for an image of the past but produces nothing new -- a final, sterile, copycat generation. ISIS à la Alabama.

Just keep the sharp objects out of their hands and let them self-segregate and slowly pass away. Let them keep their totems and their slave wives and their abused children and their magic book. Ease them out of the military and law enforcement by imposing higher and higher education and intelligence entry barriers.

When they come armed for trouble rout them; when they slink away leave them alone.

[alfablue]

This will not happen until guns become unlinked from cultural identity. That link was painstakingly forged over the last 40 years by the NRA to provide a human shield for their profits.

If the cigarette ban had come along now instead of thirty years ago we'd be having the same discussion over it. It isn't about guns -- the guns are irrelevant. It's about a failed culture going the way of the dodo, and not happy about it. Unfit to thrive in modern life, and incompetent to lead to a different future, they cling to a cartoon version of the past. It is Toynbee "nostalgia" phase of history that overtakes every dying culture.

Just keep the sharp objects out of their hands and let them self-segregate and slowly pass away. Let them keep their totems and their slave wives and their abused children and their magic book. Ease them out of the military and law enforcement by imposing higher and higher entry education and intelligence barriers. If they come looking for trouble rout them; if they slink away leave them alone.

Then the best we can do is just get used to it.

And we should call out the NRA, the gun industry, and the fools who are dumb enough to follow them for their fake sorrow. Because it very much is fake.

[Kepler]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Looks like we just avoided another one by the skin of our teeth.

JOHNSON CITY, Tenn. – Federal agents are trying to determine why a man pulled over for speeding in Tennessee was carrying a cache of weapons including two submachine guns and 900 rounds of ammunition.

Deputies found Scott Edmisten, 43, of Johnson City, carrying a .357-caliber Magnum, a loaded .45-caliber semi-automatic, a .223-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, a .308-caliber fully automatic assault rifle, more than 900 rounds of ammunition, and survival equipment, Washington County Sheriff Ed Graybeal said.

Graybeal asked the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms to help investigate, since the automatic weapons aren't registered and lack serial numbers. He told The Johnson City Press that Edmisten had apparently modified the AR rifles to make them automatics.

...

Graybeal said Edmisten threatened his arresting officer and lunged toward investigators trying to question him. He's jailed without bond on charges of possessing prohibited weapons, speeding, and felony evading arrest.

Here's our hero in his own words:

Edmisten reportedly told the officer there were no serial numbers on the rifles because he made both of them about a year ago. He told Casura he’d never fired the guns so he didn’t know if they would actually work. Edmisten told the officer he had made several weapons, but didn’t know how many.

“The defendant then became very angry and stated, ‘I know this is about CPS, and I promise you they will get the justice that is coming,’” Casura wrote in the warrant. The officer asked Edmisten what he meant.

“He stated all I needed to know is that justice is coming and I could add myself to that list,” Casura stated. The conversation ended shortly after that, but Edmisten told Casura “it only takes one,” which he said he meant that it would only take one bullet to kill himself.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Looks like we just avoided another one by the skin of our teeth.



Here's our hero in his own words:

****. How the hell try to stop these when the guy literally made fully automatic rifles in his ****ing basement?

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

It's a long process. We start by re-banning assault rifles, and forcing manufacturers to make semi-auto actions that can't be so easily modified by the average nut - excuse me, "enthusiast". Why? You have to start somewhere.

We also introduce laws around registration, sales, and mental health. No more private sales or loopholes - mandatory background checks for all. Registration is mandatory, and if a crime is committed with a gun registered as owned by you, you're liable to be held at least partially responsible.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

It's a long process. We start by re-banning assault rifles, and forcing manufacturers to make semi-auto actions that can't be so easily modified by the average nut - excuse me, "enthusiast". Why? You have to start somewhere.

I agree with that. But that doesn't do anything to stop a guy that fabricates a gun from raw materials in his basement, like the guy Kep posted about apparently did.

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I agree with that. But that doesn't do anything to stop a guy that fabricates a gun from raw materials in his basement, like the guy Kep posted about apparently did.

I suspect he was drunk/high and/or exaggerating. They are probably AR-type weapons that he bought, and then modified the action on his own workbench.

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I suspect he was drunk/high and/or exaggerating. They are probably AR-type weapons that he bought, and then modified the action on his own workbench.

And I suspect you'd be wrong about that. I posted earlier in the thread it could be done fairly easily, I wasn't just making stuff up.

[geezer]

And I suspect you'd be wrong about that. I posted earlier in the thread it could be done fairly easily, I wasn't just making stuff up.

Not “fairly easily” by any stretch to fabricate an automatic rifle. It would take unusually high levels of skill, knowledge, effort, and a huge investment in machining equipment. Such a person is a very wide exception.