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Thread: Days Since Last Shooting II

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    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Days Since Last Shooting II

    He had up to 19 weapons in his room, per reports. I have no clue about conversion. Not familiar enough with that.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Gurt, maybe but probably quite unlikely (for a conventional wood stock hunting rifle). It's the AR-15 and such that you can really get into and customize.

    Going along with what Brent is saying, had a friend of my mom's opine that gun law isn't really to blame here. It's more the sad state of affairs where SO MANY people have lost/are losing hope with the government nonsense daily, with the constant negativity among the public, etc. There's been a lot of things that have sucked the life out of some people. Kind of leads to a vicious circle.

    It sucks, it all sucks.

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    Mr. Sanctimonious Gurtholfin's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    A couple of buddies have AR-15s.

    I've shot them and even really enjoyed the activity.

    Surprisingly light and easy to handle. Even fun, when taken out of the context of what they are designed to do. I can see the attraction on certain levels.

    That said, no one needs to own one of those.

    A sidearm is far more versatile in a home invasion/self defense situation and you can't use an AR-15 for hunting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post

    A sidearm is far more versatile in a home invasion/self defense situation and you can't use an AR-15 for hunting.
    You actually can use it for hunting, maybe not in every state though. Standard caliber is .223, but they do make other calibers (.308 is the main one I'd consider a "hunting" caliber). Even the .223 would be fine as a vermin rifle.

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    Mr. Sanctimonious Gurtholfin's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyplayer1015 View Post
    You actually can use it for hunting, maybe not in every state though. Standard caliber is .223, but they do make other calibers (.308 is the main one I'd consider a "hunting" caliber). Even the .223 would be fine as a vermin rifle.

    Fair enough, but it still isn't needed for hunting.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Gun laws are absolutely the problem. The law allows people to own them. They serve no purpose but to kill things, which isn't really a good purpose.

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    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by jerphisch View Post
    Gun laws are absolutely the problem. The law allows people to own them. They serve no purpose but to kill things, which isn't really a good purpose.
    I hope that you are not that naive. If one wants a gun in this country, they will get one. Banning them is impossible at this stage of the game. Frankly, I'm two/three calls away from getting an untraceable gun.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    I hope that you are not that naive. If one wants a gun in this country, they will get one. Banning them is impossible at this stage of the game. Frankly, I'm two/three calls away from getting an untraceable gun.
    You are the one being naive. We are the only developed country where this is a normal occurrence. Other countries have walked back from this idiocy. Australia, for example, had very liberal gun laws and high rates of gun ownership. They went through a contentious mandatory buyback (with people protesting/marching opposing it). Suicide rates went down, mass shootings went down. I doubt there would be much political will to roll back their regulations now.

    The second amendment is flawed and was written for a different time (and the dismissal of the militia clause and interpretation of an individual right is a fairly recent view). The constitution can be changed for a reason. Most sane countries start with the premis that you don't need to own a gun and then carve out exceptions of who can/should. One problem is this should have been done a long time ago rather than use this as a "us vs them" political issue. Now the number of radicalized gun nuts is astounding, as is the number of guns in circulation.

    Just giving up and saying "you can't do anything about this" is pathetic yet it is a prevalent view which quite frankly makes me embarrassed and ashamed to be an American.

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    Mr. Sanctimonious Gurtholfin's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    I hope that you are not that naive. If one wants a gun in this country, they will get one. Banning them is impossible at this stage of the game. Frankly, I'm two/three calls away from getting an untraceable gun.

    IALTO - the black market connections that are so easy for anyone to tap into.


    Yes, anyone can get a gun if they put their mind to it.

    Would be much harder to get convertible semi-autos with large magazines if they didn't start out as legal sales.


    Good to know that I can come to you though when I need an untraceable weapon.

    I know some seedy MFs, and I wouldn't claim to be able to find illegal weapons with one or two calls.

    Who knew Brent - who was scared of downtown Minneapolis not so long ago - was so close to the underworld.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    “I’ve been a proponent of the 2nd amendment my entire life. Until the events of last night. I cannot express how wrong I was. We actually have members of our crew with [Concealed Handgun Licenses], and legal firearms on the bus. They were useless.”

    "We couldn’t touch them for fear police might think we were part of the massacre and shoot us. A small group (or one man) laid waste to a city with dedicated, fearless police officers desperately trying to help, because of access to an insane amount of fire power."

    "Enough is enough."

    "Writing my parents and the love of my life a goodbye last night and a living will because I felt like I wasn’t going to live through the night was enough for me to realize that this is completely and totally out of hand."

    "We need gun control RIGHT. NOW. My biggest regret is that I stubbornly didn’t realize it until my brothers on the road and myself were threatened by it."

    Josh Abbott, the Texas based Josh Abbott Band in attendance that day

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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    You are the one being naive. We are the only developed country where this is a normal occurrence. Other countries have walked back from this idiocy. Australia, for example, had very liberal gun laws and high rates of gun ownership. They went through a contentious mandatory buyback (with people protesting/marching opposing it). Suicide rates went down, mass shootings went down. I doubt there would be much political will to roll back their regulations now.

    The second amendment is flawed and was written for a different time (and the dismissal of the militia clause and interpretation of an individual right is a fairly recent view). The constitution can be changed for a reason. Most sane countries start with the premis that you don't need to own a gun and then carve out exceptions of who can/should. One problem is this should have been done a long time ago rather than use this as a "us vs them" political issue. Now the number of radicalized gun nuts is astounding, as is the number of guns in circulation.

    Just giving up and saying "you can't do anything about this" is pathetic yet it is a prevalent view which quite frankly makes me embarrassed and ashamed to be an American.
    Australia isn't a great comparison. They only have around 7% of the population we do. Their economy is much better for average people. Not to mention they are much stricter than us on immigration. There is no comparable situation to ours.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    I hope that you are not that naive. If one wants a gun in this country, they will get one. Banning them is impossible at this stage of the game. Frankly, I'm two/three calls away from getting an untraceable gun.
    That is such a straw man. I am 1 or 2 calls away from getting a boatload of heroin what is your point? The gun laws are definitely a problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    Australia isn't a great comparison. They only have around 7% of the population we do. Their economy is much better for average people. Not to mention they are much stricter than us on immigration. There is no comparable situation to ours.
    No country is going to be a "perfect" comparison because there is only 1 US. That doesn't mean we can't look at cause and effect. Immigration is irrelevant to the gun discussion anyway.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Who knew Brent - who was scared of downtown Minneapolis not so long ago - was so close to the underworld.

    Fearless now that he's got a pimpmobile.

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    That is such a straw man. I am 1 or 2 calls away from getting a boatload of heroin what is your point?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    Their economy is much better for average people.
    Yeah, they haven't fallen for the "trickle down" bull ****. Nearly every developed country has a stronger middle class than us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    IALTO - the black market connections that are so easy for anyone to tap into.


    Yes, anyone can get a gun if they put their mind to it.

    Would be much harder to get convertible semi-autos with large magazines if they didn't start out as legal sales.


    Good to know that I can come to you though when I need an untraceable weapon.

    I know some seedy MFs, and I wouldn't claim to be able to find illegal weapons with one or two calls.

    Who knew Brent - who was scared of downtown Minneapolis not so long ago - was so close to the underworld.

    His buddy's hunting rifle that has been in the family for 50 years is probably what he is considering untraceable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    Yeah, they haven't fallen for the "trickle down" bull ****. Nearly every developed country has a stronger middle class than us.
    Hard to argue with that.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Drew S. View Post
    Australia isn't a great comparison. They only have around 7% of the population we do. Their economy is much better for average people. Not to mention they are much stricter than us on immigration. There is no comparable situation to ours.
    Your conclusions are wrong. Population is not an indicator of a violent society. And the only ones who believe that immigrants cause the majority of gun deaths are those on the right.

    The following article refutes myths:

    1. They're coming for your guns - gun owners outman the US military and police by 79:1
    2. Lesser gun laws make you safer - high correlation of states with lax gun ownership and gun deaths
    3. Good guys stop bad guys - No mass shooting have been stopped by armed civilians in 33 years
    4. There are more gun owners - Actually there are less, the current ones are just buy more
    5. Don't need more gun laws - In a survey, 40% of inmates say they got their guns through private sellers wo background checks.

    http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...hs-fact-check/
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by hockeyplayer1015 View Post
    Gurt, maybe but probably quite unlikely (for a conventional wood stock hunting rifle). It's the AR-15 and such that you can really get into and customize.
    Just as a point of information, it's a fairly simple matter to make any semi-automatic hunting rifle fire full auto. I can do it to Grampa's 1950's deer rifle in an hour in my garage with a few hand tools. Gun technology isn't some space age laser beam stuff, Gatlin guns are 150 years old, semi-automatic and automatic rifles have been around for 125 years or so. Basic AR design is 60+ years old and it's so simple, it's astonishing that it took that long to come up with the design. The simplicity makes them somewhat easier to convert I suppose but none of it is hard. Heck a blacksmith could make an entire AR using 1000 year old tech if he really wanted to. The design is out, you don't need to know what to make, that genie is long since out of the bottle. I can make the entire working part of an AR with some very simple machine tools (or easier with a 3-D printer) with a little time and patience.

    None of which is necessary because I can also just fit any semi-auto rifle with a "bump" stock. Which is just a spring in the shoulder stock that pushes the entire rifle forward after firing recoil is absorbed. The shooter simply holds his finger in place as the gun moves forward and the trigger is depressed again without doing anything else. Incredibly high rates of fire can be achieved very simply. Here is an example of a commercial one. As you can see, there is nothing at all complicated about the design at all, and a couple pieces of inter-fitting pipe with a spring and maybe some wood for comfort would do exactly the same thing on any semi-auto rifle.

    As to high capacity magazines - Again, magazines are just some sheet metal formed into a rectangular tube with a spring, it's not like they are produced in a secret hidden laboratory. The design is done, there is nothing to it, and you can seriously have two left hands and modify that. For anybody with a desire to do this stuff, it's pretty simple.
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    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Australia also happens to be an ISLAND. Makes it a little tougher to import guns.

    I'm for stricter background checks, but if you think banning any sort of gun will improve anything, you are mistaken.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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