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  • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    I would think the language of such a law would be very specific (including the age of the accused) and a certain level of violent crime. Simple assault (like me punching you a couple times) wouldn't cut it.

    Anyway, it's a basic idea, which is what we are all trying to start the discussion with.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    • Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
      I would think the language of such a law would be very specific (including the age of the accused) and a certain level of violent crime. Simple assault (like me punching you a couple times) wouldn't cut it.

      Anyway, it's a basic idea, which is what we are all trying to start the discussion with.
      But there will numb nuts who believe that if you punch me in the nose, I can ventilate you with my 9mm Glock.
      CCT '77 & '78
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      • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

        Originally posted by joecct View Post
        But there will numb nuts who believe that if you punch me in the nose, I can ventilate you with my 9mm Glock.
        That's already law. Stand your ground.
        **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

        Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
        Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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        • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

          I like the idea of requiring a permit to own a gun and severe penalties for possessing an unpermitted firearm, and any conviction of a felony = lifetime ban. Also ban certain types of weapons (anything but bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns, and some hand guns would be banned. Hand guns are probably the most commonly used in crimes and kids accidentally shooting themselves or a family member. They would require extensive background checks, safety certification, liability insurance, and must be secured (locked) and unloaded for transportation outside the home.

          Of course existing non compliant guns are out there and there would need to be some kind of buyback/confiscation. Blackmarket / unregistered guns recovered during criminal investigations would be destroyed. You get convicted of a felony all your guns get destroyed. It may take us 100 years but eventually we will have a more reasonable number of guns.

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          • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

            Originally posted by joecct View Post
            But there will numb nuts who believe that if you punch me in the nose, I can ventilate you with my 9mm Glock.
            And there's the change in attitude that is needed, IMO. That's the attitude that no laws can really fix.
            Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
            Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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            • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

              Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
              And there's the change in attitude that is needed, IMO. That's the attitude that no laws can really fix.
              If the law says guns aren't so ****ing awesome maybe the attitude will follow. Worst case is you're right and nothing changes, best case is it does change something. But totally not worth trying since it might not work, right?

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              • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                Originally posted by jerphisch View Post
                If the law says guns aren't so ****ing awesome maybe the attitude will follow. Worst case is you're right and nothing changes, best case is it does change something. But totally not worth trying since it might not work, right?
                I didn't say that. Now you're starting to sound like alfablue.

                I've suggested/agreed with 2-3 changes, minimum in this very thread. But they are not necessarily the answers you want to hear, so you spout off basically saying "you're doing nothing."
                Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                  Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                  I didn't say that. Now you're starting to sound like alfablue.

                  I've suggested/agreed with 2-3 changes, minimum in this very thread. But they are not necessarily the answers you want to hear, so you spout off basically saying "you're doing nothing."
                  Maybe you just need to think before you type then. You literally just said this:

                  Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
                  And there's the change in attitude that is needed, IMO. That's the attitude that no laws can really fix.
                  Which is specifically what my response was to. You said laws can't fix the attitude, and I responded specifically to that post, which is why I chose to quote it. Is the internet really that hard? I feel like this is a pretty simple concept. You feel like laws can't change the attitude, my response was that I don't know that to be true. As the laws have gotten more and more relaxed recently the attitude seems to have followed. It is a little chicken and egg, but the are certainly related. So why not start with changing laws and hope the attitude follows?

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                  • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                    1. The attitude towards guns is the million dollar answer.
                    2. I think the dual-approval mental health check-off by un-affiliated doctors would help a bit. That doesn't really limit gun purchases or guns available. It limits the people who can purchase them.
                    3. I will definitely listen to stronger sentences for those who break the current laws.
                    4. People complain about the mods that make guns illegal. While I don't like the mods, one can still buy all the materials to build a bomb, too. Haven't made those illegal. (yes, it is tougher to buy in bulk)
                    5. Banning this or that, or suggesting buy-backs at this point is going to be fruitless. I really honestly think there are too many guns out there to even think that is feasible.
                    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
                    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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                    • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                      Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                      But other posters have come in here, shrieking and whining, with no solutions posed, and I don't think that's helpful. In fact, it's part of the reason for polarization on the issue.
                      A very small part.

                      If you were posting here a decade ago you'd know, gun control facts and solutions have been posted here for a long time and gun supporters have rarely engaged or looked for solutions. There wasn't nearly the support for gun control solutions here a decade ago and many gun supporters really couldn't defend themselves then either...when they ran out of talking points, they often resorted to jokes about drive by shootings. And while I don't see many jokes about shootings any more, those posters are also not joining the discussion now either. I suspect you underestimate the size of this crowd.
                      Last edited by 5mn_Major; 10-11-2017, 07:27 AM.
                      Go Gophers!

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                      • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                        Originally posted by SJHovey View Post
                        I wrote my sentence poorly. I didn't think you were whining. That's why I added the "as many other posters have done" phrase, but I'll admit it could have been read to include you. That was not my intent. But other posters have come in here, shrieking and whining, with no solutions posed, and I don't think that's helpful. In fact, it's part of the reason for polarization on the issue.

                        As for your question, they do actually make weapons with only a single shot available, although at least from my experience they are extremely rare. I've only seen one, and it was my grandfather's .410 shotgun, but I'm sure others exist. If you banned everything else, you might as well go with the total ban. I'm guessing huge sections of the public don't even have my limited experience with a single shot gun.

                        To my way of thinking, the most practical solution is two-fold. First, I'd impose some sort of liability on persons who own a gun but permit, either intentionally or unintentionally, it's use in a crime.

                        Second, I'd do what we did with smoking. I'd tax the he!! out of it. We didn't see a big reduction in smoking because it was bad for you or because we sued people. A lot of people quit because they simply couldn't afford it. Big taxes on guns, ammo and the materials used to make ammo (since many are making their own) will go a long way towards reducing gun purchases and usage in this country. That, coupled with the general decline in hunting, will ultimately change the gun culture. It just won't be in our lifetime.
                        If a single shot is impractical, we can go back to 5 or 6. Since the 6 shooter is deeply rooted in American history, 6 is a good number. Any weapon that holds more than that is too much. There's no reasonable reason a skilled shooter will need more than 6 rounds to accomplish what they need to do.

                        Second, put a real limit on how fast a fire arm can re-fire. Again, lets go back and take a good look at the 6 shooter, and then define that no weapon available to the public can shoot faster than that. Now I know many will say that this can't be done, and I say BS. It's just a mechanical device, which can be rate limited very easily. Any thing that increases that rate of fire is not legal at all.

                        Both of those steps would have very much reduced the number of shots that got off in Las Vegas. Maybe not because he could not just get around them, but the difficulty in getting around those limits would have likely reduced the ABILITY of people to make the changes on the scale that this guy did. Skilled machinists are not nearly as common as people think, and when you put major laws against public ones, it also reduces the resources people have to modify weapons.

                        We can add more background checks, but what in the world do we do with them? Unless there's a real mechanism to share and be able to use that info, they are only partially useful. The whole mental health issue is funny- since it gets brought up as an add after big shootings, but then it gets attacked as it's anti-2nd Amendment at other times.

                        BTW, there was an interesting time line in Time- showing that the low point in mass shootings happened during the assault weapons ban era. Shocking. Once that ended, the number and the scale took a sharp upturn. The data looks pretty clear that the ban and it's lifting had a significant impact. So laws like I have proposed work, even in the US where we have a gun fetish. And it's fair to note that the assault weapons ban was LEGAL- it's not that it was overturned by the SCOTUS, it's life was finite, and it ended. When you have such an arbitrary law like that was, the laws that I propose are easily legal.

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                        • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                          Originally posted by BassAle View Post
                          I like the idea of requiring a permit to own a gun and severe penalties for possessing an unpermitted firearm, and any conviction of a felony = lifetime ban. Also ban certain types of weapons (anything but bolt action hunting rifles, shotguns, and some hand guns would be banned. Hand guns are probably the most commonly used in crimes and kids accidentally shooting themselves or a family member. They would require extensive background checks, safety certification, liability insurance, and must be secured (locked) and unloaded for transportation outside the home.

                          Of course existing non compliant guns are out there and there would need to be some kind of buyback/confiscation. Blackmarket / unregistered guns recovered during criminal investigations would be destroyed. You get convicted of a felony all your guns get destroyed. It may take us 100 years but eventually we will have a more reasonable number of guns.
                          I forgot to add, I would make it illegal to buy ammunition (or material to load your own ammunition) without a matching registration to make it harder to get ammunition for unregistered firearms.

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                          • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                            We also need to make the penalties for the sellers. If an illegal fire arm is traced to them or if they are caught selling under the table then they need to punished quite severely. Same with people who sell their arms to others...if the gun is illegal or if you sell someone a gun from your personal stock and they use it in a crime then you need to be charged with a crime as well.
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                            • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                              Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                              We also need to make the penalties for the sellers. If an illegal fire arm is traced to them or if they are caught selling under the table then they need to punished quite severely. Same with people who sell their arms to others...if the gun is illegal or if you sell someone a gun from your personal stock and they use it in a crime then you need to be charged with a crime as well.
                              wouldn't that be covered under the "illegal" part already?
                              a legend and an out of work bum look a lot alike, daddy.

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                              • Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

                                From the good old days five years ago...July 2012:


                                Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
                                I've gotten a lot of crapola on the site for saying guns are becoming a big problem. The combination of easy access to them (shown to be easier than voting in many states), conceal/carry, and SYG changes American justice. And therefore, it will absolutely allow for more murders (which will now be called something else) and change willingness to commit these murders (either because they believe they can get off or it is no longer defined as murder).

                                Expect violence to continue to increase in terms of both legal murders as well as mass violent outbursts due to increases in gun culture and weapons proliferation
                                Go Gophers!

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