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Thread: Days Since Last Shooting II

  1. #461
    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    If I'm paying 100-300 bucks a night I want my room cleaned and I want the bed made.
    That's your *choice.* I don't want that forced on me just because the DND sign is on my door for x amount of time.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Ya kinda lost me there. He modified the legal guns to illegal guns. Key word: illegal. He slipped through the cracks. It's sad, but that will always happen. As far as banning anything...I'll offer this:
    Imagine that EVERY gun is gone in the US tomorrow. EVERY one. Poof, gone. We still border Canada and Mexico. How soon before guns are smuggled in. The US cannot stop drug/human trafficking. We're not gonna be able to stop gun trafficking.

    In addition, I will say, more in-depth background checks are needed, loopholes closed. It won't stop someone like the LV guy, but it might stop 1 attack. And I'm good with that.
    Yes I agree, smuggling can be easy. Or it can be hard. We choose to have these weapons and modifications available because of some romantic notion/myth of either the "good guy with a gun theory" or the same myth of keeping tyranny at the hands of our own government at bay. If we decided as a society that the gun culture has simply gone too far and we've become a slave to the NRA and a few other wack-job organizations, we could eliminate much of the threat and carnage being caused every year or two by one of these unhinged maniacs. We could stop the smuggling if we chose to. Right now we don't need to worry about it because these guns and modifications are LEGAL. Most of these nut jobs did not do anything to really put them on the radar as far as doing something this horrific. So the Las Vegas shooter had no need to find illegally smuggled weapons. If we prevented them from being sold legally anymore we could also take effective steps in keeping them out of the country. If that WASN'T true, these things would be commonplace in the rest of the western world because the United States certainly does not have a monopoly on crazy unhinged maniacs who are capable -- with the right weapon in their hands -- of killing dozens or hundreds of people.

    I also need to reiterate that no amount of mental health screening can prevent someone like the Las Vegas shooter if he doesn't show up on someone's radar as being this mentally unhinged. And no amount of the kinds of treatment medical science is currently able to provide and to understand will cure someone as sick as the people who have carried out these acts. They are as hopeless as pedophiles. Someday we probably will figure out the right chemical mix and therapy needed. We can cure some cancers now that we could not 50 or 75 years ago. In 1985 virtually everyone who contracted HIV died. Now, with aggressive care, most in this country can survive. Someday we might be able to fix someone as broke as the Las Vegas shooter. Until we can, lets make it impossible for him (or at least as unlikely as possible) to acquire the weapons and modifications needed to do this. Again, maybe armed with a trunk-full of semi auto handguns he could have destroyed some lives, but anything fewer than the 58 he killed or the other 400+ he injured would mean the world to the loved ones of those people who DID NOT die or get injured. We're not going to eliminate the mental illness or treat it effectively enough in those capable of massacre. But we can make weapons like this as hard to get as military style bombs. We need to do that, at least.

  3. #463
    Anti-Semantic Brenthoven's Avatar
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    That's what makes the LV thing so maddening and sad. There was NOTHING to flag this guy. Frankly, it didn't matter how many guns he had. Half of his guns weren't even in the room, so that part of the equation probably should be tossed out (file it under "gun collector").

    He was very intelligent, patient, creative, and wily. As of right now, from what we know, there was nothing "wrong" with him as far as any mental illness/etc. I really hope we can find some sort of probable reason as to why he did this, so we can learn from it. Right now, we can only say something flipped some switch in his head at some point in time, and he went off.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Well, that's funny because a hotel owner in Las Vegas does this very thing. And I'm fine with it. But, fine, it's stupid. What else you going to do? Metal Detectors? Turn hotels into the airport?

    What hotel did this guy own? Was it one of the major casinos? I would be really surprised if it was.

    This is more a general observation regarding 'do not disturb' signs. As for the 'do not disturb' signs, there is no way to know if a sign was on for 36 hours straight or more or if was removed for any time in between unless they have the room under constant surveillance. Mandalay Bay has 3500 plus rooms. Are suggesting they place cameras outside each room entrance to check for potentially suspicious activity?

    BTW I've spent 300/night as well and would prefer housekeeping not to enter my room. It's all about choice.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    That's what makes the LV thing so maddening and sad. There was NOTHING to flag this guy.
    They may never find a motive other than he snapped and decided to kill a bunch of people. This is what scares people the most in my opinion.

    The lone wolf with a desire to create mayhem and carnage is virtually unstoppable until it is too late.
    Last edited by Bigus Paulus; 10-08-2017 at 02:33 PM.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigus Paulus View Post
    They may never find a motive other than he snapped and decided to kill a bunch of people. This is what scares people the most in my opinion.

    The lone wolf with a desire to create mayhem and carnage is virtually unstoppable until it is too late.
    Quite sad, and quite true.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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  7. #467
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigus Paulus View Post
    What hotel did this guy own? Was it one of the major casinos? I would be really surprised if it was.

    This is more a general observation regarding 'do not disturb' signs. As for the 'do not disturb' signs, there is no way to know if a sign was on for 36 hours straight or more or if was removed for any time in between unless they have the room under constant surveillance. Mandalay Bay has 3500 plus rooms. Are suggesting they place cameras outside each room entrance to check for potentially suspicious activity?

    BTW I've spent 300/night as well and would prefer housekeeping not to enter my room. It's all about choice.
    SUNDAY: In the wake of the Las Vegas massacre, Chris speaks exclusively with casino magnate Steve Wynn on the extraordinary measures taken to secure his properties.
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/

    Watch it yourself. I ever go there I'm staying at his hotels and no one else's.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    I usually have the DND sign up as well unless I leave the room. I would assume that is quite common.

    BTW just cause something is a red flag doesnt mean they have to act on it, it is just noted so that if anything else weird is going on they are on alert. I would have an issue if it triggered a mandatory search but if it just meant they maybe kept an extra set of eyes on the room to see if anything is going on what is the problem with that?
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Handyman View Post
    I usually have the DND sign up as well unless I leave the room. I would assume that is quite common.

    BTW just cause something is a red flag doesnt mean they have to act on it, it is just noted so that if anything else weird is going on they are on alert. I would have an issue if it triggered a mandatory search but if it just meant they maybe kept an extra set of eyes on the room to see if anything is going on what is the problem with that?
    I could see and accept keeping an eye on things. It's the whole mandatory search thing I have a major issue with. Let's say you're there for a week, and don't leave the room (and yes, you can keep track of that given the style of locks on the doors). Maybe do a welfare check, knock on the door, is everything ok sir/ma'am, etc. That sort of thing.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
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  10. #470
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/

    Watch it yourself. I ever go there I'm staying at his hotels and no one else's.
    His properties cost about $400-500/nt, BTW.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/fox-news-sunday/

    Watch it yourself. I ever go there I'm staying at his hotels and no one else's.
    An interesting watch. Makes sense from a guest safety perspective. After the 12 hr DND red flag Wynn really didn't get into what they did next. Would the hotel try to contact the room, the guest, or automatically enter and search the room. If they tried the former first without success I could justify the 3rd option since a potential medical issue could be possible. However, if they were able to contact the guest before a room search and everything was fine would the hotel still have grounds to enter the room with the DND hanging from the door. Let's also remember 12 hours is still plenty of time to set something like this up which would render Wynn's tighter security policies moot.

    Wynn himself admitted that there weren't any red flags with the shooter.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Because that is what I said. Except I didn't.
    And I'm tired of that excuse, too.

    The logical conclusion that laws are ineffective because evil is evil is to do nothing. We've been through this before. Have you not been paying attention?

    And yes, after many, many attacks, many gun people suggest that we arm ourselves, more. Including after Sandy Hook.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by alfablue View Post
    And I'm tired of that excuse, too.

    The logical conclusion that laws are ineffective because evil is evil is to do nothing. We've been through this before. Have you not been paying attention?

    And yes, after many, many attacks, many gun people suggest that we arm ourselves, more. Including after Sandy Hook.
    You claimed I said "Do nothing." That was incorrect. I said mental health checks and close gun show loopholes. That is not doing nothing.

    In the LV case, we don't even know that the mental health would've caught this guy beforehand. I don't think they would have.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Acquiring dozens of assault rifles should be a red flag, but apparently it's a normal thing in this ****ed up country full of nut jobs with some kind of masturabatory gun fetish.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    You claimed I said "Do nothing." That was incorrect. I said mental health checks and close gun show loopholes. That is not doing nothing.

    In the LV case, we don't even know that the mental health would've caught this guy beforehand. I don't think they would have.
    LOL, as if that suggestion means anything. That's the same BS suggestion that happens after every mass shooting. Give me a break.

    There's NO need for automatic weapons, there's no need for semi-autos to fire more than 5 times at once, there's no need for any mechanism what so ever that speeds up rate of fire for a semi-auto weapon. The lack of the latter would have made it more difficult for this guy to assemble his stockpile and get off as many rounds as he did.

    But we will pretend that a suggestion for mental health screening from people who want to cut any health related spending has any backing with their own spine.

    You "suggestions" are just as good as doing nothing.

  16. #476
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Automatic weapons are already illegal.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

  17. #477
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenthoven View Post
    Automatic weapons are already illegal.
    Not if bump stocks are legal. Which they are. So, in fact, automatic weapons are legal. I heard the gunshots in Vegas. Don't get much more auto than that.

    And don't start splitting hairs. That's what the right does every time a lefty suggests more gun control. There is no other conclusion to draw here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bronconick View Post
    Huh? Taking any attitude about mental health would require spending actual dollars. Mental health is what gets brought up when white men kill to bypass discussing guns, then ignored when the budget gets addressed.
    Since when does one require money (or need money) for an attitude?!?

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Wondering what people think about talking to kids about this issue and when things like Vegas occur. I've heard incredibly passionate arguments saying we have to be open with kids and others saying we have to protect kids and not talk to them about it at all. What do you tell them about issues like this when they happen? There are obviously age limits when they would be able to process the situation. Any rules of thumb people typically follow?

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiggsy View Post
    Wondering what people think about talking to kids about this issue and when things like Vegas occur. I've heard incredibly passionate arguments saying we have to be open with kids and others saying we have to protect kids and not talk to them about it at all. What do you tell them about issues like this when they happen? There are obviously age limits when they would be able to process the situation. Any rules of thumb people typically follow?
    This happened at my daughters middle school today, so I'd say that you probably can't shield them from it.

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