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Thread: Days Since Last Shooting II

  1. #81
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    I didn't say that.


    Do you believe that officers should not have a firearm?

    Would you do that job without a firearm?
    I would in some other country with sane gun laws. So i guess you have a point. Until we fix America's gun fetish, we're stuck with amped up trigger happy traffic cops.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    I would in some other country with sane gun laws. So i guess you have a point. Until we fix America's gun fetish, we're stuck with amped up trigger happy traffic cops.
    The discussion about if police need to be armed is so varied depending on location. In most of the country, it would probably work to disarm the police that are simply patrolling. But in some areas, like in South Chicago, that would be suicide. It isn't something that can be decided on with a blanket statement.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by BassAle View Post
    I would in some other country with sane gun laws. So i guess you have a point. Until we fix America's gun fetish, we're stuck with amped up trigger happy traffic cops.
    I think it's exactly the opposite. The vast majority of cops should not be armed. SWAT teams etc. should have guns and insane amounts of training, calling them in should be an escalation, and they should have wide latitude. But Barney Fife shouldn't have a gun for the same reason that store security shouldn't have a gun.

    But isn't it possible that somebody stopped for shoplifting the store will get away because store security doesn't have a gun? Yep. And there's no shoot out because store security doesn't have a gun. Likewise, if I have drugs in my trunk I may just drive away from the stop because Barney Fife doesn't have a gun. And there's no shoot out on Main Street. And the cops run my plates and my other info and now there's a warrant and the well-trained boys with deadly force are on my trail.

    This will require a huge social change in the mindset of what we are willing to put up with from our police. It will face tremendous resistance. Right now there's very little public pressure because the people who get murdered by cops are by and large the Poors and of course they don't matter. They don't buy stuff so they have no rights.

    But there are a lot of them, and they can still vote, so maybe someday they'll figure it out.
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  4. #84
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    99% of officers will retire having never drawn their weapon on duty, let alone fired it.

    The myth that the traffic stop is the most dangerous activity a cop performs needs to end.
    99% might be close for a firing rate, but the percentage that have never drawn their weapon has to be much, MUCH lower... Several cops that I know personally have drawn weapons.
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  5. #85
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Just remember. Even though we're not going to do anything and this stuff still happens let's not forget what the Republicans have done the last year.

    1. They rescinded the policy against mentally ill people having access to guns.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/poli...icle-1.2985698

    2. The House is working on making it easier to get and use a silencer.

    http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/news...act/index.html

    Both policies are insane and changes to existing law that make things worse. But, hey, this is what we voted for.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I think we have had a very measured, productive and civil conversation so far. I think that is a good thing, and something that all of us can benefit from. I also think that we're on the verge of devolving completely into throwing **** at each other again, and hopefully that doesn't happen. We all have opinions, but as far as I know, none of us are actually in a position to put forward a bill, so this is purely an academic/theoretical discussion.
    I think dialog happens when sides discuss facts and solutions. Speaking for the gun control side, most get frustrated when the gun side discounts every fact supplied and doesn't come up with any solutions of their own...at which the gun control side gets upset and ultimately gives up (for now). I also think sometimes there is this 'I will not compromise' point of view that makes nothing get done.

    BTW it may be my opinion but it seems like you're more moderate than I recall. But message boards are notably bad for getting an accurate read on someone.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    The discussion about if police need to be armed is so varied depending on location. In most of the country, it would probably work to disarm the police that are simply patrolling. But in some areas, like in South Chicago, that would be suicide. It isn't something that can be decided on with a blanket statement.

    I put my foot in my mouth with my wife's coworker's husband who is a town police officer in a "suburb" of Madison with a population of 12k when I implied that he didn't have it so bad working in such a place comparatively speaking.

    He told me a couple of stories of the domestic dispute calls that he had to go on that were about as tense as could possibly be. Claimed they were the most dangerous things he had to do on the job.

    I'm guessing he'd disagree with any who believe he doesn't need a firearm to do his job.


    AFAIK, he hasn't gunned down anyone who had a broken taillight yet either.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Photos from the room. Paddock used a bump stock.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-show-assault/

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    I didn't say that.

    Do you believe that officers should not have a firearm?

    Would you do that job without a firearm?
    I wouldn't do the job with or without a firearm for a variety of reasons, so I'm not the person to ask that.

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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    I put my foot in my mouth with my wife's coworker's husband who is a town police officer in a "suburb" of Madison with a population of 12k when I implied that he didn't have it so bad working in such a place comparatively speaking.

    He told me a couple of stories of the domestic dispute calls that he had to go on that were about as tense as could possibly be. Claimed they were the most dangerous things he had to do on the job.

    I'm guessing he'd disagree with any who believe he doesn't need a firearm to do his job.


    AFAIK, he hasn't gunned down anyone who had a broken taillight yet either.
    I think, what is being suggested, would be in a situation where there is a call like this, it wouldn't be the unarmed patrol officers dispatched. It would some other more armed squad that is trained for that type of situation.
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  11. #91
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by joecct View Post
    Photos from the room. Paddock used a bump stock.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...-show-assault/
    Why would any citizen need a gun like the picture in that link? Literally makes no sense. That's not a hunting rifle. That's a killing machine.
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  12. #92
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I think, what is being suggested, would be in a situation where there is a call like this, it wouldn't be the unarmed patrol officers dispatched. It would some other more armed squad that is trained for that type of situation.
    yes

  13. #93
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by bigblue_dl View Post
    I think, what is being suggested, would be in a situation where there is a call like this, it wouldn't be the unarmed patrol officers dispatched. It would some other more armed squad that is trained for that type of situation.

    What if you don't that it's the situation going in and time is of the essence with a spouse that is in imminent danger?

    You want to wait for Madison PD to dispatch their tactical unit coz this town probably isn't going to have their own.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    tasers are effective for most settings. True story: My nephew is a county deputy, he was assigned to watch the back door on a drug bust a few months ago. The dealer ran out the back and he got him with the taser, running shot, from 25-30 feet away. Walked over and cuffed him.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    That is entirely a funding problem. And it's on purpose. And it's one sided.
    If we paid you $25 per month to never exceed the speed limit, would you take it? Or would it take $50? $100?

    It's not a funding problem; it's a personal accountability problem.

    You don't shoot people as the aggressor. Period.

    Somehow some people find a way to get around that simple truism.
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  16. #96
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by unofan View Post
    I wouldn't do the job with or without a firearm for a variety of reasons, so I'm not the person to ask that.

    Yet you're happy to venture an opinion on whether or not traffic stops can be dangerous.

    For other people doing a job that you wouldn't do.
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  17. #97
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sicatoka View Post
    If we paid you $25 per month to never exceed the speed limit, would you take it? Or would it take $50? $100?

    It's not a funding problem; it's a personal accountability problem.

    You don't shoot people as the aggressor. Period.

    Somehow some people find a way to get around that simple truism.
    I hope the mentally ill enjoy their silencers.
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  18. #98
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    What if you don't that it's the situation going in and time is of the essence with a spouse that is in imminent danger?

    You want to wait for Madison PD to dispatch their tactical unit coz this town probably isn't going to have their own.
    Yes. But that is why this is a difficult decision to make. I am not saying that this is something I would support, I'm just discussing the options. It is a tradeoff, that we, as a society have to be willing to make. I'm not sure if this hypothetical policy would be an improvement, or not. I can see some definite drawbacks to it, like you have mentioned, but discussing options is a good thing.
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    Quote Originally Posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
    Why would any citizen need a gun like the picture in that link? Literally makes no sense. That's not a hunting rifle. That's a killing machine.
    The problem is that neither side wants to recognize or acknowledge the diversity among firearms. It's a major problem on both sides of the debate.

    It's like saying the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Metallica, and Marilyn Manson are all the same music because they are "Rock and Roll"....

    Both sides take an "all or nothing" approach and common sense like what you mentioned suffers because of it.
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  20. #100
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    Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

    This sums it up. From the New York Times.

    The New York Times Opinion Section: "If only Stephen Paddock had been a Muslim Then we know what wed be doing," Thomas Friedman writes.

    "Then there would be immediate calls for a commission of inquiry to see what new laws we need to put in place to make sure this doesnt happen again."
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