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Thread: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scarlet View Post
    2.) An on-site promotion plus scoreboard ad for Liam Neesonís new movie? First time Iíve seen that. Is there an alum tie in I missed??
    No idea, but the film Molly's Game (which is very good) is based on Molly Bloom - the sister of Olympic skier and football player Jeremy Bloom and the cousin of Colby Cohen...

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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    You simply don't get it zlax (shocker). Once again, Woll was very good in the WJC last year. That was always going to be a factor.
    You simply don't get it...that was last year and shouldn't the best players be playing?

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by Dan View Post
    No idea, but the film Molly's Game (which is very good) is based on Molly Bloom - the sister of Olympic skier and football player Jeremy Bloom and the cousin of Colby Cohen...
    Yes. Known about that for a while. Already chatted with Colby about it.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    They weren't just a favorite in hockey east. I think they were preseason #2. It's just my opinion but i think a lot of BU fans agree. Quinn is a great recruiter but coaching is still a question mark.
    A question mark? That question has been answered. The guy sucks as a coach. I saw a listless and uninterested team out there who looked like they all just met each other on Saturday for the first time as the passing was terrible and nobody was near the net. I was laughing with a couple of fans in front of me at one point in the 3rd period. There was one BU player with the puck in the zone near the blue line and the other 4 guys were whirling around at center ice, and no it wasn't a line change. Unbelievable. Unless Matty O'Connor is in net good luck trying to score from the red line. That's coaching, or a lack of it. There's no cohesion. There's no game plan. There's no pride. Were it not for the one year existence of Jack Eichel, how would we be viewing Quinn's tenure by now?
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Everyone gave Quinn a free pass on the 13-14 season and I am not really sure why. The year before, the team was just on the outside of the tournament bubble and came up one game short of winning the conference. They had some good younger players (Rodrigues and Hohmann, sophomores, Grizz, O'Regan, Ahti, freshmen) who should have gotten better after pretty good seasons in 12-13, and two returning goalies. It should have been easy to have some improvement in 13-14 and make the NCAA tournament but instead the team went 3-15-3 from December 1 to the end of the season after starting 7-6-1 with four wins against teams in the top 15.

    With the consistent inconsistency, lineup roulette, not having left- and right-shots on the correct sides of the ice, and the brutal underachieving for the past 2.5 seasons, I have seen enough. This is now his fifth season - for the first time, we can say he has a full roster of his recruits, and this is what we get. I don't donate to the program anywhere near the amount that most of you all do, but I am done until either he is fired or learns how to coach.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    They weren't just a favorite in hockey east. I think they were preseason #2. It's just my opinion but i think a lot of BU fans agree. Quinn is a great recruiter but coaching is still a question mark.
    I've been hearing more & more of the same amongst fellow BU fans. He's now had 2 classes of players who are playing/have played 4 years under him; those players are:

    2013-2017
    Somerby
    Roberto
    Kelley

    2014-2018
    Hickey
    Olsson
    Phelps
    MacLeod
    Diffley

    In looking at those players, how many of them have significantly improved from Freshman -> Senior year? I'd argue there are more on that list who played their best hockey as Freshmen and either flatlined or regressed in their hockey development since.

    Secondly, as Dan cited in a previous post, the JFK and Bellows departures have hurt a lot more than many have acknowledged. If both returned, it would have given BU 2 legit lines of top-6 forwards, although I question at times whether Bellows would have vastly improved this year at BU.

    The concern I have with the BU program is the revolving door amongst players and staff. In 5 years there have been:

    5 different assistant coaches
    4 different directors of hockey ops
    3 different strength/conditioning coaches

    Also, 7 forwards from last year's roster departed (2 graduated, 1 to NHL, 1 to AHL, 1 to MJ, 2 transfers).

    Also, here's a list of players since Quinn became HC I could think of who left (or committed but never showed up to) BU under the following circumstances: 1) transfer to another program; 2) go to Major Junior; 3) decommitted; 4) dismissed/cut. I didn't include the expected early departures like Eichel, Keller, McAvoy, O'Connor, Maguire:


    2013
    Privitera bros. - Alexx was asked not to return; Jarrid decommitted and joined Alexx at UVM
    Gill - decided not to come back following coaching change

    2014
    Kurker - dismissed from team, goes to USHL, transferred to Northeastern
    Collier - cut from team, transferred to Northeastern
    MacAfee - dismissed from team, transferred to Army
    Coughlin - decommitted, ends up @ Vermont

    2015
    Duane - transferred to Quinnipiac
    Piccinich - departed for Major Junior
    MacTavish - decommitted, ends up @ Alaska
    Sherwood - no-show, signs ELC w/ Columbus after 2015 draft
    Letunov - no-show, ends up @ UCONN over administrative/academic issue
    Greer - departs for Major Junior halfway thru 2015-16 season

    2016
    Baillargeon - graduates early, transfers to ASU for Sr year
    Fortunato - dismissed from team, transferred to Quinnipiac
    Lawrence - cut from team

    2017
    JFK - signs w/ Bruins
    Lacouvee - graduates early, transfers to Mankato for Sr year
    Bellows - departs for Major Junior
    McDermott - transfers to Providence
    Andren - transfers to Ferris State


    It's not to say that some of the players who left the program under these circumstances would have made a huge difference if they returned, but the amount of churn/turnover on BU's roster and staff in recent years is, IMO, an obstacle towards building and sustaining the long-term success that BU is measured by.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Friend: any chance you could do a similar listing for the last 5 years of Parker's tenure? My gut was that the rate of change hasn't increased, we had lots of this with Parker. But seeing all the names you listed has me wondering.

    One thing that we don't seem to have as much of, that we had with Parker is "decommits" who were likely going the MJ route all along (a la Werek, Esposito, D'Angelo). I wonder if that is a change impacting more than BU, or if Quinn is doing something differently.

    Sherwood was one who did, but he sort of had to since he didn't get drafted. If he had been drafted (and BU lobbied to try to make it happen), he likely would have still come to BU.
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    They weren't just a favorite in hockey east. I think they were preseason #2. It's just my opinion but i think a lot of BU fans agree. Quinn is a great recruiter but coaching is still a question mark.
    Just stepping back for a bit, it really is crazy that the national preseason #2 is sitting all the way at 32 in the PWR right now. They really do play like #2. And while I don't follow as closely as I used to, I don't believe any major injuries have really crept up and bit BU. I'm not sure what Quinn is doing but I sure do hope he keeps doing it!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Very well laid out, Friend. I'll give him a pass on the '13 and '14 players and Duane since most of that was due to Parker's poor recruiting at the end of his time and the expected change in recruiting that comes with any coaching move. Letunov is also unfair to pin on Quinn as that was 100% a non-academic performance admissions issue.

    That said, I completely agree with the revolving door being very troubling. Of course when you get players of Eichel, McAvoy, and Keller's level it's known that they'll leave after a year or two and I'm fine with that. But the number of second, third, and fourth liners who've left, regressed, or made their way to the bench is very concerning. Of the two classes of players he's had for four years the only one listed there who definitively improved in a meaningful way over his time is Doyle. Hickey hasn't and arguably has regressed, Phelps/MacLeod/Diffley have flatlined at below average while getting sent to the back of the lineup in favor of newer players, Roberto and Kelley made minor improvements in their final year but nothing huge. He can get a pass on Olsson due to his injury issues, but his season this year has been VERY disappointing.

    It's become very clear that to win in college you need both the high-talent Eichel/Keller guys in addition to a good amount of seasoned upperclassmen who contribute both on the score sheet and off. The latter is very difficult to achieve when you're getting bumped to the back of the line in your sophomore and junior seasons and/or players are transferring out at that time. I'm concerned something similar is beginning to happen with Curry and Chabot, both of whom showed promise last year as four-year contributors, but whose growth this year has been stymied by being all over the place in the lineup. It's very, very difficult for anyone to grow as a player when he's being jumbled in and out of the lineup - one night on the first line, the next on the third line, the next benched, the next on the fourth line. DQ needs to find consistency with who he's playing night in and night out and stop this nightly game of roulette.
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Papagiorgio View Post
    Just stepping back for a bit, it really is crazy that the national preseason #2 is sitting all the way at 32 in the PWR right now. They really do play like #2. And while I don't follow as closely as I used to, I don't believe any major injuries have really crept up and bit BU. I'm not sure what Quinn is doing but I sure do hope he keeps doing it!!
    The #2 ranking was ridiculous. This team absolutely should not be playing like the 32nd best team in the country, but in no way is #2 even on their best day. This group's ceiling is probably somewhere in the 11-14 range.
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by brassbonanza View Post
    The #2 ranking was ridiculous. This team absolutely should not be playing like the 32nd best team in the country, but in no way is #2 even on their best day. This group's ceiling is probably somewhere in the 11-14 range.
    Forgot to mention I am not a fan of preseason polls (or polls in general, especially when you consider which folks get to vote).

    No doubt they should be playing better with the talent they have, 32 is a disaster no matter how you slice it though and it all points to Quinn. People forget BU lost a lot last year and I personally expected them to have some trouble scoring. How is Harper looking this year? Expected to see a big jump from him.
    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Ambrose on 3/7/2010 View Post
    The fact that you BC fans revel in the superiority of your team in an admittedly weak league leads me to believe you will be more sorely disappointed when the end comes than we will.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by brassbonanza View Post
    Very well laid out, Friend. I'll give him a pass on the '13 and '14 players and Duane since most of that was due to Parker's poor recruiting at the end of his time and the expected change in recruiting that comes with any coaching move. Letunov is also unfair to pin on Quinn as that was 100% a non-academic performance admissions issue.

    That said, I completely agree with the revolving door being very troubling. Of course when you get players of Eichel, McAvoy, and Keller's level it's known that they'll leave after a year or two and I'm fine with that. But the number of second, third, and fourth liners who've left, regressed, or made their way to the bench is very concerning. Of the two classes of players he's had for four years the only one listed there who definitively improved in a meaningful way over his time is Doyle. Hickey hasn't and arguably has regressed, Phelps/MacLeod/Diffley have flatlined at below average while getting sent to the back of the lineup in favor of newer players, Roberto and Kelley made minor improvements in their final year but nothing huge. He can get a pass on Olsson due to his injury issues, but his season this year has been VERY disappointing.

    It's become very clear that to win in college you need both the high-talent Eichel/Keller guys in addition to a good amount of seasoned upperclassmen who contribute both on the score sheet and off. The latter is very difficult to achieve when you're getting bumped to the back of the line in your sophomore and junior seasons and/or players are transferring out at that time. I'm concerned something similar is beginning to happen with Curry and Chabot, both of whom showed promise last year as four-year contributors, but whose growth this year has been stymied by being all over the place in the lineup. It's very, very difficult for anyone to grow as a player when he's being jumbled in and out of the lineup - one night on the first line, the next on the third line, the next benched, the next on the fourth line. DQ needs to find consistency with who he's playing night in and night out and stop this nightly game of roulette.
    Bingo! As opposed to recruiting 5-6 stars, more consideration for "the mix" is needed and as you say, a combination of upperclassmen with some frosh stars as well as frosh role players who will eventually become the 4 year guys you need to win. To do this, Quinn has to be more vigilant and intentional with the number of high-end frosh he brings in. This will allow for better balance (both on the ice and off) and I think a better and winning formula for BU (or any high-end hockey program for that matter).

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by defkit View Post
    Friend: any chance you could do a similar listing for the last 5 years of Parker's tenure? My gut was that the rate of change hasn't increased, we had lots of this with Parker. But seeing all the names you listed has me wondering.

    One thing that we don't seem to have as much of, that we had with Parker is "decommits" who were likely going the MJ route all along (a la Werek, Esposito, D'Angelo). I wonder if that is a change impacting more than BU, or if Quinn is doing something differently.

    Sherwood was one who did, but he sort of had to since he didn't get drafted. If he had been drafted (and BU lobbied to try to make it happen), he likely would have still come to BU.

    Here's what I could come up with for Parker's final years (after the 2009 title). Again, this doesn't exclude expected early departures during that period like Wilson, Shattenkirk, Bonino, Cohen, Chiasson. Also excludes Trivino, who was dismissed during his Senior year.


    2009
    Strait - forgoes Senior year & Captaincy to sign w/ Islanders right before season starts

    2010
    Saponari bros. - dismissed from program

    2011
    Warsofsky - signs w/ Bruins
    deAngelo - decommited, goes OHL
    Erne - decommited, goes QMJHL

    2012
    Coyle - departs for QMJHL mid-season
    Nicastro - dismissed from team
    Courtnall - departs before Senior year for reasons unknown
    Clendening - signs w/ Blackhawks (IMO, should have returned to BU)
    Polesello - BU w/d offer due to off-ice issues. Ends up @ UVM for 1+ seasons before departing for OHL. Finished his career at U. of Western Ontario.
    Hetnik - decommited, goes to UMASS.

    2013
    Cisse - departs for QMJHL mid-season. Plays 27 games in Q; 10 games in ECHL.
    Myron - departs for ECHL mid-season. Plays 34 ECHL games across 3 seasons.


    As for Kole Sherwood, IIRC he was surprisingly drafted by his hometown Columbus Blue Jackets in 2015. From what I read his family used that as leverage for CBJ to sign him to ELC w/ a bonus commensurate to the cost of tuition + room/board for 4 years @ BU.
    Last edited by Friend_of_BU_Hockey; 01-08-2018 at 12:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Zlax45 View Post
    You simply don't get it...that was last year and shouldn't the best players be playing?
    Not sure how many times I can say it. It's perfectly normal to consider what someone did on the WJC stage previously. That's why most of the time returnees get a leg up even if someone might have better numbers that year. Under your scenario we would just use a computer to spit out the team with the best stats that particular year. It has never worked that way.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by bothman View Post
    Bingo! As opposed to recruiting 5-6 stars, more consideration for "the mix" is needed and as you say, a combination of upperclassmen with some frosh stars as well as frosh role players who will eventually become the 4 year guys you need to win. To do this, Quinn has to be more vigilant and intentional with the number of high-end frosh he brings in. This will allow for better balance (both on the ice and off) and I think a better and winning formula for BU (or any high-end hockey program for that matter).
    Despite my concerns, I do think there's been an increased focus on Quinn's part on finding a better mix of players going forward. When looking at this year's Freshmen class, only Tkachuk and Bowers are legit flight risks prior to their upperclassmen years. The remaining players in that class are all expected to be 4-year players. As for next year's incoming class, only Farabee and maybe Wise seem like 2-3 year players whereas the others are projected to be 4 year guys. The same appears to be true so far for the 2019-2020 incoming class.

    I think there was a need on BU's part early on during Quinn's tenure to be aggressive and get guys like McAvoy and Keller. There definitely seems to have been a lot of trial/error on his part where it took some time for him to determine what the right mix of each incoming class might consist of. It still remains TBD whether that mix is right, as questions remain from an in-game coaching & player development standpoint.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by brassbonanza View Post
    But the number of second, third, and fourth liners who've left, regressed, or made their way to the bench is very concerning. Of the two classes of players he's had for four years the only one listed there who definitively improved in a meaningful way over his time is Doyle. Hickey hasn't and arguably has regressed, Phelps/MacLeod/Diffley have flatlined at below average while getting sent to the back of the lineup in favor of newer players, Roberto and Kelley made minor improvements in their final year but nothing huge. He can get a pass on Olsson due to his injury issues, but his season this year has been VERY disappointing.

    It's become very clear that to win in college you need both the high-talent Eichel/Keller guys in addition to a good amount of seasoned upperclassmen who contribute both on the score sheet and off. The latter is very difficult to achieve when you're getting bumped to the back of the line in your sophomore and junior seasons and/or players are transferring out at that time. I'm concerned something similar is beginning to happen with Curry and Chabot, both of whom showed promise last year as four-year contributors, but whose growth this year has been stymied by being all over the place in the lineup. It's very, very difficult for anyone to grow as a player when he's being jumbled in and out of the lineup - one night on the first line, the next on the third line, the next benched, the next on the fourth line. DQ needs to find consistency with who he's playing night in and night out and stop this nightly game of roulette.

    I wonder whether part of the coaching philosophy the last 2 years has been to give his Freshmen each year as much of a shot to prove whether/not they belong in the lineup regularly; if they don't, then put an upperclassmen depth player back in.

    The current BU roster is overrun with 3rd/4th line types; I don't think DQ isn't as enamored with his roster as he wants us to believe. Unlike JP, I don't think DQ can motivate/coach up lesser players the way JP could, and thus the struggles in the bottom part of BU's lineup and the DQ-coached BU teams being very top heavy in scoring.

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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by Friend_of_BU_Hockey View Post
    Despite my concerns, I do think there's been an increased focus on Quinn's part on finding a better mix of players going forward. When looking at this year's Freshmen class, only Tkachuk and Bowers are legit flight risks prior to their upperclassmen years. The remaining players in that class are all expected to be 4-year players. As for next year's incoming class, only Farabee and maybe Wise seem like 2-3 year players whereas the others are projected to be 4 year guys. The same appears to be true so far for the 2019-2020 incoming class.

    I think there was a need on BU's part early on during Quinn's tenure to be aggressive and get guys like McAvoy and Keller. There definitely seems to have been a lot of trial/error on his part where it took some time for him to determine what the right mix of each incoming class might consist of. It still remains TBD whether that mix is right, as questions remain from an in-game coaching & player development standpoint.
    Agree again with everything here and I think the underlined sentence is most pertinent. He's doing a better job of bringing in the mix, but he's developing them very questionably. Again, Curry and Chabot are the glaring examples on the current roster. Similar arguments can be made for MacLeod and Diffley during their sophomore and junior seasons.
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by Friend_of_BU_Hockey View Post

    Unlike JP, I don't think DQ can motivate/coach up lesser players the way JP could, and thus the struggles in the bottom part of BU's lineup and the DQ-coached BU teams being very top heavy in scoring.
    Are we talking in the 1970's here? Motivation wasn't exactly Parker's strong suit over the back half of his career.
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by Friend_of_BU_Hockey View Post
    As for Kole Sherwood, IIRC he was surprisingly drafted by his hometown Columbus Blue Jackets in 2015. From what I read his family used that as leverage for CBJ to sign him to ELC w/ a bonus commensurate to the cost of tuition + room/board for 4 years @ BU.
    Thanks for posting. Wow, some names I forgot about. Myron definitely jumps out as having made a bad decision.

    I'm almost positive Kole was not drafted, but he was signed right after the draft by Columbus. They brought he and his older brother in for a "tryout" or something, and Kole left with an offer right after the draft. We heard at the roundtable that summer that because he was not drafted, it made signing much more of an attractive offer. I don't remember the details, but it was some sort of issue with how the agreements are with the CHL, NHL. IIRC, he also progressed tremendously after he committed to BU, and they were going to have to move him up if they wanted to keep the NCAA as a viable option for him (which the coach said they were likely going to do).
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    Re: Boston University - 2017-2018 season - thread numero uno

    Quote Originally Posted by brassbonanza View Post
    Agree again with everything here and I think the underlined sentence is most pertinent. He's doing a better job of bringing in the mix, but he's developing them very questionably. Again, Curry and Chabot are the glaring examples on the current roster. Similar arguments can be made for MacLeod and Diffley during their sophomore and junior seasons.
    Lots of really good points by brass, Friend, and bothman in this conversation. I think Phelps is a perfect example. He was brought in to be a 4-year guy. Good player, but not likely a flight risk. But with so many recruits every year, he hasn't been a regular starter in the lineup. Is his lack of contribution the effect or the cause?

    If Chabot wasn't injured during his extended absence, then I think that is a perfect example of the problem. He was very good at his role last year - An older (experienced) 4th liner that could be counted on to make smart plays, stay out of the box, etc. Why would he be benched for such a long period of time?
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